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Post by carllove on Oct 18, 2022 13:46:56 GMT
I'm surprised by how well they actually sang, considering that kind of bubblegum/boy band pop is so often 99% choreography, image and production.
But I have to say, some of the mannerisms (vocal and body language) are just so funny and annoying to me. The first guy to sing lead, second from the right, with his gravely little voice and then the breathy exhale after "turned me on as a kid," or the constant little hand signals that seem to have been mistaken for an essential part of singing sometime in the 90s and never gone away...
That would be Aaron Carter. His lead is actually my favorite.
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Post by jk on Oct 18, 2022 20:36:35 GMT
I'm surprised by how well they actually sang, considering that kind of bubblegum/boy band pop is so often 99% choreography, image and production.
But I have to say, some of the mannerisms (vocal and body language) are just so funny and annoying to me. The first guy to sing lead, second from the right, with his gravely little voice and then the breathy exhale after "turned me on as a kid," or the constant little hand signals that seem to have been mistaken for an essential part of singing sometime in the 90s and never gone away...
That would be Aaron Carter. His lead is actually my favorite. Nick Carter, surely. Younger brother Aaron has his own career.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 19, 2022 11:44:14 GMT
I love this. I think it’s better than the original. I actually heard this version before the Beach Boy’s version, so it’s probably why I kind of like the song on Love You. I know Kapitan already posted this - but this is a different video with pics of Alex. Knowing Alex Chilton hung around with the guys around 1970ish--you can guess which faction it was he hung out with...--I always thought that had the group broken up then, there could have been quite an interesting band involving the Wilsons and Chilton. Granted, that many self-destructive people in one band isn't a great idea. But the talent would have been something. Coincidentally, I happened upon a little fact tying this thread and our LA best/worst songs thread together. It seems Brian's love of "Shortenin' Bread" expanded toward Alex Chilton:
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Post by carllove on Oct 19, 2022 11:49:48 GMT
That would be Aaron Carter. His lead is actually my favorite. Nick Carter, surely. Younger brother Aaron has his own career. I knew it was Nick, but kept thinking about Aaron because of that stupid reality TV show 🤣
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Post by jk on Oct 21, 2022 21:57:10 GMT
I rarely seek out other folks' covers of BB songs, but I am also partial to Diamond Dave's version of "California Girls." Honorable mention goes to the fans who mashed up "Rubber Ducky" and "Surfer Girl" -- that was clever.Any idea where I find this, Em?
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by Emdeeh on Oct 21, 2022 23:50:09 GMT
It was part of a series called Net Sounds, made by fans and sold to fans. It was either one of the mailing lists or one of the early message boards that got it rolling. AGD may remember.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2022 12:45:25 GMT
Here's another one from Caroline Now! The Songs Of Brian Wilson And The Beach Boys - "Lady" by Eugene Kelly. Very cool version.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 10, 2022 14:51:51 GMT
I hope this isn't hijacking jk and his project, but based on the below quote and a few weeks of silence here, I thought I'd give it a go. I fear my inspiration is running out in the weekly BB question department. This last one was clearly stretching it a bit. So I'll call it a day. Based on something I read and posted about in the album-specific thread for The Beach Boys, Brian was shown to be very torn about his relationship with the Beach Boys in the late '80s. Was he still truly one of them, did he want to work with them, would he rather move on without them, did he even like them?
That interview seemed to have him waffling back and forth, which is to some degree what he continued to do for the next 35 years: occasionally perform with them, but mostly not; participate in Stars & Stripes and--15+ years later--TWGMTR, but not SiP, and of course beginning but not completing a mid-90s originals album; do press for archival reissues or anniversaries, but not a lot else.
The question is this: If fully rejoining the Beach Boys were eliminated as an option, would you have preferred Brian to more fully cut ties with the Beach Boys back in 1988 and commit to a solo career right then; or would you rather have had history work out as it actually did, with at least a decade of "is he or isn't he," then solo, then reunion, then breakup/solo, etc.?
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by Emdeeh on Nov 10, 2022 17:44:26 GMT
I prefer letting history play out as it did, in terms of Brian's solo career. I like the stuff he did with the BW band much better (mostly) than the 1988 album.
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Post by kds on Nov 10, 2022 18:00:32 GMT
I'm also going with letting history play out the way it did. I'm not a huge fan of the Sweet Insanity and Paley stuff. And, had Brian carried on as a solo artist, he might not have crossed paths with Joe Thomas. Say what you will about his production style, but I think Joe got a lot of good material from Brian.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 10, 2022 19:46:45 GMT
The question is this:If fully rejoining the Beach Boys were eliminated as an option, would you have preferred Brian to more fully cut ties with the Beach Boys back in 1988 and commit to a solo career right then; or would you rather have had history work out as it actually did, with at least a decade of "is he or isn't he," then solo, then reunion, then breakup/solo, etc.?
Good question, and my answer is...neither.
But first, going back to 1966, apparently there was some patter about Brian Wilson having some kind of solo career around that time. We know "Caroline, No" was oddly released as Brian Wilson only, and a year later, "Gettin' Hungry" also featured his (and Mike's) name, again oddly excluding The Beach Boys. Even some of the earlier Beach Boys' albums featured a little blip on the actual album cover about "new songs from Brian Wilson". So, I would imagine the thought of a solo Brian Wilson - separate from The Beach Boys - was in the back of some minds (Capitol Records), and in the front of others (cough...Mike Love). Do I think it would've worked? No, I don't. I mean, it could've worked if Brian was in the right frame of mind, which he wasn't, especially as 1966 turned into 1967. The pressures - on and off the proverbial field - would have been too much for him to handle. Oh, and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ would've been the ultimate determining factor. The Beach Boys weren't done with their Golden Goose yet.
OK, flash forward to 1988 or 1995. Then I think it could've worked, or at least it had a chance of working. Keep in mind, other than "the Komomo debacle", Brian - with Landy's permission - was both a solo performer and a Beach Boy. Isn't that the way Brian wanted it to be? Brian appeared on or at almost every major Beach Boys' "event" while under Landy's treatment. Only near the end did things fall apart. Just thinking about some of those major events - The Tonight Show with Joan Rivers, D.C. Beach Party, Ronald Reagan Inaugural Ball, The Beach Boys album, You Again, all of the MTV videos (that's an important one IMO), the Solid Gold TV shows, Live Aid, Full House, Still Cruisin', the Endless Summer syndicated TV show, and a few of the awards show including The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame - Brian was a Beach Boy. During just about all of those Beach Boys' happenings, Brian was either tinkering with a solo career or actually having one.
Only after Landy was dismissed and as Melinda entered the picture did things start to come to an end with Brian Wilson as a Beach Boy. I will always think that Brian could've done both at that time and beyond - be a Beach Boy and have a solo career. I don't think Brian ever, TO THIS DAY, stopped wanting to be a Beach Boy. The two obstacles - the pressure and the $$$$$$$$$$ - would've been much more alleviated post-1995. By that time all of The Beach Boys were multi-millionaires. They no longer needed Brian to make money or keep the band going. He hadn't done that for a long, long time. That's an important point. The guys would not have been as opposed or...afraid...to continue without Brian because they basically did it for the last 25 years. Also, things - however you want to categorize them - had changed in other ways. Melinda was the right person, even moreso than Landy, to help Brian achieve both a Beach Boys' career and a solo career. She could've offered the support and the security and the necessary "health" to help Brian along. I really believe that Brian could've accepted a solo project like the Gershwin album or the Disney album or even recorded a solo album of new material, and when the time came, recorded with The Beach Boys. I don't necessarily think The Beach Boys would've cared or objected. Now, touring was a different animal. I don't think Mike, the group, or whoever would've agreed or consented to reduce the number of concerts played each year just to accommodate or include Brian. They could've. Maybe they should've. Think of what we lost (I know, we never had it ) over the last 30 years with a Brian Wilson-less Beach Boys. Think of the albums or the concerts we could've had. I do.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 10, 2022 20:15:06 GMT
My perspective on this is more about what seems to be the dysfunction than the resulting music. I don't know that I have an answer to my own question, because I really do like TWGMTR and appreciate what came of the C50 tour, so throwing it out wouldn't be easy.
But reading and hearing Brian through the years, I'm sorry, but as I wrote in the 85 thread and linked above, it just seemed to repeatedly leave him in an awful head space. I can't help but wonder if a real, decisive, final breakup would have been better for everyone involved in some ways. (Obviously not all ways: the money would always be best if Brian would join them. That's how to get better record deals, that's how to sell more expensive tickets. And from a fan's perspective, of course the vast majority of fans would rather have them together than apart.)
It just seems so painfully obvious that while they may love each other, they clearly don't like each other much, and they don't have the same objectives (other than profits). Brian made clear repeatedly how uncomfortable he was around the others on a personal level. That's not healthy.
It's all water under the bridge now, as Brian seems nearly spent; Mike and Bruce are active but don't sound so great (meaning them personally; the band sounds good); and Al's sophomore album is currently scheduled for 2061, after five or six new rereleases of Postcard and the 11-disc Waves of Love deluxe box set. But I can't help but wonder if Brian might have been better off (probably especially in that '88-'98 stretch and again around the 50th) if he knew and accepted that it was over.
So my answer to my own question is I don't know. It doesn't matter anyway: we have reality and a counterfactual that can't be made to have happened. But it is sad.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 11, 2022 13:15:01 GMT
Yes, dysfunction has to be considered, and at that stage in Brian Wilson's life, he certainly didn't need anymore. The poor guy had enough issues to confront. Why enter another battleground which would be The Beach Boys and all of the obstacles he would encounter there. I do think there was a way - to be a solo artist AND a Beach Boy - but, even though you cited That's Why God Made The Radio as an example of a success, I wouldn't blame you if you also said about the C50 Reunion, "So, in the end, how did that work out?"
I think there was a way for Brian Wilson to be a Beach Boy and a solo artist in a much more...calming and compromising way...than the second Landy tenure. I'll cite two reasons. The first reason I mentioned above. The guys didn't NEED or depend on Brian Wilson anymore for a lot of things. They had long written him off as a member of the live band (though I think that coulda/shoulda been worked out, too), they didn't need Brian for their financial security (they were all very rich), and I think they, not totally accepted, but might've lowered expectations somewhat for being a contemporary recording group. Those three things were very different from the 1960s and 1970s, both with Brian and the group. A lot of the pressure was off. Things really did change.
The second reason might be more practical, and that is the people who Brian surrounded himself with. And, I have to give Melinda credit for that. It was also a matter of who WASN'T around, and I won't name names, it's not necessary. But, now, after Landy left, you had supportive people like Jeff Foskett, Darian Sahanaja, Joe Thomas, Andy Paley, Mark Linett, and most importantly, a new team of medical professionals. I think that support system could've served as, not just advocates for Brian, but intelligent, mature, and good people who would know how to be liaisons. In the past, Brian associated with some people who had both parties' interests to consider, but it didn't really work. I always got the feeling that Brian's new team could've walked that line much more efficiently.
But, hey, we are talking about Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Melinda Wilson, and that animal known as The Beach Boys. They were dysfunctional then, they are dysfunctional now, and they would always be dysfunctional. However, despite all of the craziness, most of the time, Brian was able to rise above it and record some great music, and I'm talking about post-1966. We read these stories and interviews about Brian being stressed and paranoid in dealing with The Beach Boys. Heck, he probably felt that way in 1961. He's always had anxiety. Yes, at the time of those selected interviews, Brian might've been unhappy with the group. Let's assume those were real feelings. But, how long did those feelings last? A day? A week? Two weeks? We also know that sometimes all it took was for Brian to get in the studio with the guys and record some vocals. In addition to those negative interviews, how many times did we read Brian saying, "Whenever we get together we create some magic. I love to hear The Beach Boys sing. It's just like we've never been apart." Or something like that.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 11, 2022 14:04:14 GMT
Not really furthering an argument, but just sharing another bit of background info from some of the tumultuous times--nearing the end of the second Landy era--here is a quote from first autobiography writer Todd Gold, as published in a story by Bill Holdship in the Dec 1991 issue of Bay Area Magazine (as republished in Abbott's Back to the Beach).
"I accompanied Brian on the road for a 10-day tour with the Beach Boys during the summer of 1990. He was filling in for Mike Love who was at a TM conference, learning to levitate. When Brian arrived that night he asked Carl to do an interview with me for the book and Carl's response was "let me talk to my attorney." Earlier in May of 1990, shortly after the conservatorship suit was filed Brian flew up to San Francisco for a couple of gigs two nights in a row. He walked backstage to the dressing room and not having seen these guys for months, Mike's response wasn't 'hello,' but rather to walk up to Brian and stand as close as possible, intimidating Brian, and playing up to Brian's fear of Mike. And then the first words out of his mouth were: 'those shoes look hideous.' When Al Jardine walked up and said to Brian: 'what are you doing here?" Brian said 'I work here. These are my songs.' Al was quiet for a moment and then said 'Well, just don't sing like you're a Vegas lounge act.' And Carl didn't say a word to Brian that whole night. He just kept his distance. So Brian was treated as the ultimate outsider. It was unbelievable to me. Equally unbelievable was that during the second show, Al Jardine left in the middle of the concert. He just walked off the stage because he had a plane to catch. Throughout the first half of the show he just kept looking at his watch. And then he put his guitar down and walked off the stage."
Then the same story--but not quoting Gold anymore--continues with this.
"During an earlier interview with Brian he was very pained when discussing the Beach Boys. He rolled his eyes back in his head as he sometimes does when unpleasant subjects are approached and he answered with little more than a 'yes' or a 'no.' Today however a much happier Wilson seems especially forthcoming on the subject. 'I want to produce them again someday but not right away. Not until I think ... look somebody deserves for me to produce them but maybe Mike and Carl don't deserve it! I don't know. I'm getting emotional now, but I don't think the Beach Boys deserve to be produced by me, at least not at this point. Because some of the bullshit they've done to me. Their attitude has hurt me immensely.'"
But it's also essential to mention that he continues with his "theory" that they don't like Dr. Landy, that they think Landy was controlling Brian, etc. Which, I mean...hardly a crazy theory. Brian was still defending Landy, pretty obviously against his own best interests.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by Emdeeh on Nov 11, 2022 14:17:42 GMT
Brian would also have been accompanied by Landy and/or his minions at that show, as well as Gold.
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