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Post by Kapitan on May 8, 2022 14:42:36 GMT
The criteria are as individual as each list-maker, there's no shared set of rules on this one. In that case, I'd take it a step further and suggest that each album has its own set of rules. So if I were to draw up a list, the only thing connecting them would be the fact that I like what I'm hearing, and that sounds more like a favourite albums topic to me. In a way, that's indeed what this is. A favorite albums (or favourite, if you prefer!) thread, but at least a very-very-favorite albums thread, and probably one that omits anything a person might think of as a guilty pleasure. (I think of guilty pleasures as those we admit to liking despite accepting they're not necessarily really great ... or at least not accepted as such.)
Certainly, it's not unlike a favorite albums thread, depending on people's own definitions.
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Post by carllove on May 8, 2022 15:41:08 GMT
In that case, I'd take it a step further and suggest that each album has its own set of rules. So if I were to draw up a list, the only thing connecting them would be the fact that I like what I'm hearing, and that sounds more like a favourite albums topic to me. In a way, that's indeed what this is. A favorite albums (or favourite, if you prefer!) thread, but at least a very-very-favorite albums thread, and probably one that omits anything a person might think of as a guilty pleasure. (I think of guilty pleasures as those we admit to liking despite accepting they're not necessarily really great ... or at least not accepted as such.)
Certainly, it's not unlike a favorite albums thread, depending on people's own definitions.
I think it’s a bit different from a favorite albums list, as my list would have included more Beach Boys, grunge and Moody Blues otherwise. To me it’s more like - favorite albums that I can listen to all of the way through and love it all. Most Beach Boys albums have a skip or two or three. I mean - I LOVE Friends, but TM is a skip for me. Sunflower for sure is in my top 5, but I tend to skip a couple of the Dennis songs. Alice In Chains - Dirt - and Soundgarden - Superunknown - are two of my favorite albums - but each have a few skipper songs. The Moody Blues - In Search Of the Lost Chord - is an outstanding album - but once again there are a few songs I don’t particularly like. I did notice that many of the albums I chose are thematic. An album like Days of Future Passed works together as a whole, as it tells a story. Then again, Dummy is a bunch shorter songs seemingly unrelated, but all stunning in their brilliance.
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Post by jk on May 8, 2022 18:00:12 GMT
In a way, that's indeed what this is. A favorite albums (or favourite, if you prefer!) thread, but at least a very-very-favorite albums thread, and probably one that omits anything a person might think of as a guilty pleasure. (I think of guilty pleasures as those we admit to liking despite accepting they're not necessarily really great ... or at least not accepted as such.)
H'mmm. The "guilty pleasure" concept has had entire threads devoted to it in Beach Boy Land over the years and it's clear everyone has their own idea of what it is. Thinking about this present thread and how on earth to approach it, I was suddenly struck with the idea that a guilty pleasure is an internal thing and has no bearing on what the world thinks. It's more about finding yourself liking something that goes against all your principles, against everything you stand for. Swinging big band stuff goes absolutely against the grain of what I've always considered to be listenable music, yet I confess to getting a thrill from the swinging likes of Sammy Davis Jr.'s "Back In Your Own Back Yard" or indeed Buddy Greco's "The Lady Is A Tramp". So yes, I think it's an internal thing, a conflict within oneself. My two euro cents.
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Post by Kapitan on May 8, 2022 18:17:40 GMT
That's very interesting as to the idea of guilty pleasures being an internal contradiction. That's not how I think of the idea, but I understand it as you mention it. Then again, isn't internal conflict (at least) partly based on external influence? My guess is that it is.
EDIT - to your point, how does one come to his or her principles? What one stands for? If you like something that goes against those principles, isn't it possible that what we're talking about is external pressure? What one comes to as his/her positions or principles seems likely to have been built based (partly/largely) on external factors ... while what one enjoys, one enjoys. That's the so-called guilty pleasure. (Or at least that's what I've just thought now.)
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on May 8, 2022 19:31:02 GMT
Interesting thread idea, Kapitan! I like topics that make me think! And yes, I had to think carefully about this one because technically, I don't believe there is such a thing as a true perfect 10 album. Every one of my favorite albums has a weak track somewhere. I do have a number of greatest hits albums that are well compiled and do contain nearly perfect songs all the way through, but of course we can't count those because those songs were not originally conceived in that context. Although I do have a few comps that just happen to appear as a complete work, at least to me. One such comp is the two-disc The Alan Parsons Project Definitive Collection. Those songs flow together very well, and maybe that just says something about Mr. Parsons' production values.
So if I am to make a list of perfect 10s, the criteria for me is going to be favorites that I can put on the stereo and listen to from start to finish, even any weaker tracks.
Pet Sounds - Beach Boys Sunflower - Beach Boys Wild Honey - Beach Boys Summer Days (and Summer Nights!!) - Beach Boys Today - Beach Boys Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd Days of Future Passed - Moody Blues To Our Children's Children's Children - Moody Blues On the Threshold of a Dream - Moody Blues Abbey Road - Beatles Help! - Beatles Houses of the Holy - Led Zeppelin Who's Next - The Who Morrison Hotel - The Doors Incense and Peppermints - Strawberry Alarm Clock Wake Up...It's Tomorrow - Strawberry Alarm Clock Lights Out - UFO Ghost in the Machine - The Police Astro Lounge - Smash Mouth Lazaretto - Jack White
Well, there's 20......
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Post by jk on May 8, 2022 19:53:11 GMT
EDIT - to your point, how does one come to his or her principles? What one stands for? If you like something that goes against those principles, isn't it possible that what we're talking about is external pressure? What one comes to as his/her positions or principles seems likely to have been built based (partly/largely) on external factors ... while what one enjoys, one enjoys. That's the so-called guilty pleasure. (Or at least that's what I've just thought now.) I think I see where you're coming from, Cap'n. To be absolutely honest, I fear I'm getting out of my depth here so I'll just add this: When I was a teenager I used to like composers who wrote for large symphony orchestras, to the exclusion of those who didn't. Was that dictated by external pressure? No one was advising me either way. For better or for worse, those were my principles, what I stood for at the time and I sneered at the likes of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Youthful folly of course, but I wouldn't say anyone or anything (convention, whatever) guided me in this at all. Now where's my coat?
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Post by B.E. on May 8, 2022 20:23:39 GMT
I don't think there are any "perfect 10s" because there's just too much subjectivity involved in music, but there are certainly 10s. They're the best...as good as it gets. In this thread, I'll just stick to the artists I like and am most familiar with, as they're the ones I feel comfortable agreeing or disagreeing with the consensus on. And, for a change, I'm going to try to be objective (rather than subjective) as I think this thread calls for it (at least more than our recent ranking threads have).
So far, the discussion has been nearly exclusively studio album related. And that's perfectly fine and legitimate, but I also think compilations should be considered. Obviously, that would expand our list, but perhaps not by a great deal. The compilations I've been considering are ones that were released "at the time" moreso than "after the fact", and thus include material that was recorded within a short amount time. There's great quality, consistency, and sequencing (though, remember, not necessarily perfect). It served a purpose. Often, the first compilation of a legendary artist. It may be a collection of non-album tracks or previously released, but it sounds of a piece. It was an important and successful release (though, it doesn't have to be). Perhaps, the only essential release of the artist. Anyway, that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. Also, I agree with KDS' point about the CD age being responsible for less 10s. While there are exceptions, I really think 30-35 minute albums are the sweet spot.
Elvis' Golden Records (1958 - 6.2M sales) - Recorded between January 1956 and September 1957, it included nine #1s, four charting B-sides, and only one previously released album track "Love Me". Separately, I think Elvis' Christmas Album (1957 - 17M sales) is a 10, and that his first two studio albums, Elvis Presley and Elvis, deserve consideration in their own right (particularly, the debut, though I'd probably settle on 9s for each). There's also the great For LP Fans Only (1959) compilation that fills in the gaps. There's only one track of overlap across these 5 albums. All recorded within a few years. Remarkable, world-altering music.
Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits (1967 - 6.5M sales) - While I agree with others that Dylan had (potentially) a few 10s studio album-wise, this compilation is a no-brainer. I even think the 1971 double album follow-up, Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Vol. II (5.2M sales), deserves consideration, but I'd probably only rate it a 9.
The Doors' 13 (1970 - 1.1M sales) - Recorded between 1966 and 1969, it covered all their studio albums except L.A. Woman (1971). I'm not sure any of their studio albums are 10s (although, there is an argument to be made for 2-3 of them), but this compilation absolutely is.
The Rolling Stones' Hot Rocks 1964-1971 (1971 - 6.9M sales) - A double album. I think the Stones had just enough 'A' material during this period to score a '10' over 4 sides. (Although, a few tracks could use a trim.)
The Beatles' 1962-1966 (1973 - 13.2M sales) and 1967-1970 (1973 - 14.4M sales). Obviously, there are others: the UK's A Collection of Beatles Oldies (1967), Past Masters Vol. 1 and 2, and their greatest selling album, 1 (2000 - 32M sales), but I think those 1973 double album compilations are perhaps their most important and get the nod for being well-executed and first. Beyond that, I could be pretty easily convinced that 6 of their studio albums are 10s (and, yes, that includes the White Album).
The Beach Boys' Endless Summer (1974 - 3.1M sales). Recorded between April 1962 and June 1965. Again, there are others, but I think this one was most consequential and impressive (considering it's a double album). The earlier "Best Ofs" just held back too much, IMO. And as great as some of the other compilations released later on were, the material had all been released numerous times over by then. The 60s material of the Beach Boys and Beatles were still fresh in the early to mid 70s when those comps were released. Studio album-wise, Pet Sounds is a 10 and Today! is really close.
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young's So Far (1974 - 6M sales) - Recorded between 1968 and 1970, you get the stronger halves of Crosby, Stills & Nash (1969) and Deja Vu (1970), along with the "Ohio"/"Find the Cost of Freedom" single. As an aside, I personally would have preferred swapping one or two tracks for "Marrakesh Express" and "Carry On", but other than that it's perfect.
Jim Croce's Photographs & Memories: His Greatest Hits (1974 - 1M sales) - Recorded between 1971 and 1973. Released a year after his tragic death.
Cat Stevens' Greatest Hits (1975 - 5.5M sales) - Omitting his earlier career, the album consists of material recorded between 1970 and 1975.
Eagles' Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 (1976 - 41.2M sales) - Pulled from their first four albums (Eagles, Desperado, On the Border, and One of These Nights) this is an incredible, and cohesive, listen. To their credit, Eagles Greatest Hits Volume 2 (1982) is nearly a 10, too, but I think I would have dropped a song or two from The Long Run in favor of a couple from their earlier albums that didn't make the cut the first time around. Perhaps, "On The Border", and either "James Dean" or "Ol' '55".
James Taylor's Greatest Hits (1976 - 12.6M sales) - What's really cool about this, is that James re-recorded two tracks from his debut "Something In The Way She Moves" and "Carolina In My Mind", resulting in an even more cohesive listen. These became the definitive versions, and I think they are better. If they had held off a year they could have included "Handy Man" and "Your Smiling Face", which I would have replaced "Walking Man" and "Shower The People" with, but it's still a 10 as is (and those songs have their fans, to be sure).
Bob Marley & the Wailers' Legend (1984 - 28M sales) - Most of the tracks are from Exodus (1977) onward, except "I Shot The Sheriff", "Get Up, Stand Up", "Stir It Up", and "No Woman, No Cry".
Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers' Greatest Hits (1993 - 13M sales) - Their first compilation. Career-spanning.
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Post by Kapitan on May 8, 2022 21:01:30 GMT
EDIT - to your point, how does one come to his or her principles? What one stands for? If you like something that goes against those principles, isn't it possible that what we're talking about is external pressure? What one comes to as his/her positions or principles seems likely to have been built based (partly/largely) on external factors ... while what one enjoys, one enjoys. That's the so-called guilty pleasure. (Or at least that's what I've just thought now.) I think I see where you're coming from, Cap'n. To be absolutely honest, I fear I'm getting out of my depth here so I'll just add this: When I was a teenager I used to like composers who wrote for large symphony orchestras, to the exclusion of those who didn't. Was that dictated by external pressure? No one was advising me either way. For better or for worse, those were my principles, what I stood for at the time and I sneered at the likes of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Youthful folly of course, but I wouldn't say anyone or anything (convention, whatever) guided me in this at all. Now where's my coat? Extremely interesting. I still hold that something external likely did guide you, whether your teenage self knew it or not. I think our internal lives are likely rarely quite as internal as we think they are. That said, the results are internal. The combination of external and internal forces end up some unique jumble of outcomes that are us.
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Post by kds on May 9, 2022 12:27:49 GMT
I'll admit, I have a hard time differentiating "favorite" and "best" when it comes to albums sometimes, since the came up above.
Although, while I often cite Wish You Were Here as my all time favorite album, I will concede that albums like Pet Sounds and Abbey Road are "better." But I do think all three are 10s.
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Post by kds on May 10, 2022 12:27:15 GMT
I consolidated my two posts above, and added the Stones and the Heartbreakers. (I'll delete this post in a day or two.) Just to play devil's advocate, but if a greatest hits album is anything less than a 10, wouldn't something be completely off?
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Post by Kapitan on May 10, 2022 12:36:07 GMT
I consolidated my two posts above, and added the Stones and the Heartbreakers. (I'll delete this post in a day or two.) Just to play devil's advocate, but if a greatest hits album is anything less than a 10, wouldn't something be completely off? I don't know, some pretty mediocre bands have released greatest hits albums...
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Post by kds on May 10, 2022 12:38:18 GMT
Just to play devil's advocate, but if a greatest hits album is anything less than a 10, wouldn't something be completely off? I don't know, some pretty mediocre bands have released greatest hits albums... Well, this is true. The Toad the Wet Sprocket comp I bought several years back is pretty thin. (And while on the subject, I think the Brian Wilson solo compilation could've been better). But, not so much for the likes of Petty, Marley, The Beatles, and the Stone.
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Post by Kapitan on May 10, 2022 13:35:30 GMT
Speaking of greatest hits albums, though, I saw today that GnR's greatest hits has now been on the Billboard Top 200 for 11 straight years.
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Post by kds on May 10, 2022 14:56:52 GMT
Speaking of greatest hits albums, though, I saw today that GnR's greatest hits has now been on the Billboard Top 200 for 11 straight years.
Speaking of them, I probably have Appetite as a ten.
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Post by B.E. on May 11, 2022 0:11:32 GMT
I consolidated my two posts above, and added the Stones and the Heartbreakers. (I'll delete this post in a day or two.) Just to play devil's advocate, but if a greatest hits album is anything less than a 10, wouldn't something be completely off? As Kapitan posted, there are some questionable greatest hits albums out there. But, just to explain where I'm coming from a bit... Although I think I'm a fairly generous rater, it's occurred to me as I check my notes that I'm pretty darn hesitant to rate an album a 10. Most of my favorite artists top out at a few 9s (if that) and a bunch of 8s (and 7s). And those are my favorite artists. Now, I do plan to circle around and actually post a list of studio albums I'd rate a 10, but it will be quite a short list outside of the Beatles. All that said, I do think most of my favorite artists have a compilation-worth of material that rates a 10. And so that's why I headed down that path. But, "most", being the operative word. Some don't. Either they don't have enough '10' material or a well constructed greatest hits compilation wasn't released (at all, or in a timely fashion). An example: I'm a big America fan, but even though their 1975 greatest hits compilation is well-put together smash hit (7M sales), I think the track selection could have been a little better and so as it stands I think it's "just" a very strong '9'. I feel similarly about the Byrds greatest hits album (1967). Here's an example I think you'll really appreciate, though: Bruce Springsteen. Objectively, I'm not going to argue against Born to Run or even Born in the USA. And an interesting case can be made for The River and Nebraska. Subjectively ? Born to Run is an 8, Born in the USA, The River and Nebraska are 9s, and Darkness on the Edge of Town is... maybe...a 10. But consider his massively successful greatest hits comp from 1995, it's got "Streets of Philadelphia", "Secret Garden", "Murder Incorporated", "Blood Brothers" and "This Hard Land". I can't go 10 with those songs on there. 9, but not 10. So, there aren't many artist catalogs' that I rate higher, and yet I might have one 10 for him (and it's not his greatest hits album).
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