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Post by Kapitan on Feb 21, 2022 12:45:46 GMT
Discounting its primeval roots, rap's history began in the late '70s. Already by the mid-80s--and ongoing for decades--critics and the public began calling it "the new rock and roll," the next big thing in a world where previous generations' rebellious music was used to sell toys and soda, and whose tours were sponsored by major corporate brands.
In 1985, Run-DMC released King of Rock, a rap album that featured some heavy guitars. Their 1986 album Raising Hell included the surprise smash hit "Walk This Way," a collaboration on the old Aerosmith song, which hit #4.
Never one to miss the chance to glom on to a trend, the Beach Boys and Fat Boys collaborated on a version of the Surfaris 1963 classic, "Wipe Out." The song was a hit, reaching #12 in the US and #2 in the UK. Its cartoonish video (a la David Lee Roth, Twisted Sister, or Beastie Boys) was heavy rotation on MTV.
Please listen to, discuss, and rate the Beach Boys & Fat Boys' "Wipeout."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 21, 2022 13:43:30 GMT
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon! If you thought recording a disco song was outrageous, what did you think of this...collaboration?
There was actually a few things I was happy about regarding this single, albeit not much had to do with the song itself. I was glad that it got heavy rotation on MTV, it got the group on the radio again, it got the band in the news again, and (in the video) Brian continued to look like a million bucks.
I don't know what to say about the record. Obviously, it wasn't my favorite genre of music. I guess it was OK. They tied the lyrics into a California/summer song somehow. Nice guitar solo. Good bass line. I like the bass vocal, too. A lot of bow bows. I had mixed feelings about Brian's vocal/voice. I was glad to actually hear him, as opposed to being buried in the mix. But, it was slightly shouty or grating. I suppose that was OK for a rap song and a song called "Wipeout".
When I DJ'd, I used to play this record during the limbo line. The people seemed to like it, doing a little shuffle. Two quick things about the video. I always thought it was awkward that Carl didn't participate and the way they superimposed his face on a surfboard. Maybe only a BB diehard would care about that. Was there something about Carl's non-participation that we should know? Also, I thought that this "project" was accepted and tolerated because Brian Wilson was involved. If it was simply Mike Love-led - and it was Brian who didn't participate - well, I imagine there would've been more criticism despite it's commercial success.
What, we're not discussing the B-side, "Crushin'"? I'll give "Wipeout" a 7. I'm giving extra credit because it worked despite it not being my bag. I mean, it must've had some merit. Wipin' out, wipe out, wipin' out, wah, wah, wah...
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 21, 2022 14:43:27 GMT
I turned 11 the summer that "Wipeout" was released, which is probably right near the sweet spot of the target audience. This was barely even music for teenagers, much less adults. It was goofy and it was catchy. I mentioned David Lee Roth as a comparison of videos, specifically thinking of "California Girls" and "Just a Gigolo," and I think the comparison fits in many ways.
This kind of rap was from before "gangsta rap" became popular. The complaints from adults in those days weren't that it was demeaning or harmful to kids, but that it was stupid. And it was stupid! (So is most rock and roll.) This was an era when MCs were still not far from their origins, as emcees to parties and dances. They were entertainers, not auteurs or cult leaders.
I can't speak to how the disco "Here Comes the Night" fit in its time, how it compared to "real" disco, its timeliness ... but I can say that this one landed. No, it wasn't the first of its kind, but it wasn't embarrassingly late, either (as the chart results demonstrate). It helped, I'm sure, that the Fat Boys' movie Disorderlies came out that same summer, even though the song wasn't on the soundtrack. (It did include their version of " Baby, You're a Rich Man.") This song fit in with the popular style of rap of the day, although I'm sure plenty of more serious rappers weren't thrilled about that fact.
So my take on it is very positive. I don't know that my rating will be any higher than Sheriff John Stone's 7: the song isn't high art, by any stretch of the imagination. But how often is pop music high art? Damn near never. If it's successful in what it's trying to do--which in this case is make you smile, maybe shake your booty--then god bless. Maybe I'll stretch it to an 8, but probably 7. Either way, I'd listen to this all day, every day over almost anything from the '85 album, for example.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 21, 2022 16:11:29 GMT
Here is a later interview (posted in 2021, no idea when it was conducted but maybe around then) with a man who is now the lone surviving member of the Fat Boys giving a perspective you might not think of: how "Wipeout" was seen to some degree as a sellout or career-killer for them. Different subcultures are funny: he didn't know the Beach Boys at all--not like he wasn't personally friends, but didn't know who they were.
Here is an interview with another of the Fat Boys--apparently right near when he died, Feb. 2021--in which he says he was happy to do "Wipeout," but again talks about the impact on their career. Management wanted them to continue in that crossover vein. "'Wipeout' was our answer to Run-DMC's 'Walk This Way.' I thought it was great to do, but then stop it right there, and let's go back to what we did in the beginning. And I couldn't get a response from anybody. It was like, 'now, let's do "The Twist," now! Let's do, something, "Louie Louie" now! And I think that's what kind of drove us musically into the graves, and got less people and less people wanting to listen to what we had to offer."
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 21, 2022 16:22:35 GMT
By the way, I share these just to note that it's not just classic rock fans who might have snubbed their noses at the collaboration, or found it embarrassing. There is real danger of a sort in this kind of collaboration. If you're lucky it's considered a classic, but it's entirely likely that both acts' fan bases criticize it as a lame money-grab.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 16:53:37 GMT
I love the part about New Yorkers getting transformed into Californians. I teach in a suit and a tie and have for 30 years but I'm thinking that one day, just one day I'm going to go in with Hawaiian shirt. I only did that once when Allan B and Steve K were visiting but at some point I'm going to do it everyday.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 21, 2022 20:40:39 GMT
I'm not a rap music fan. Never liked it. That said, I can appreciate the talent it takes to rap well (or is it rap good?). The stereotype in my brain when it comes to rap is some gangsta looking guy talking about life in the streets, a lot of violent talk, lots of profanity. In that context, it's nice to be reminded of a time when rap could be fun, silly, and the Fat Boys seem pretty good to me in that context. The video, on the other hand, is embarrassing (for the Beach Boys). Are we sure that Bruce Johnston isn't really Pat Boone? Brian looks great, and Carl (thank God) isn't there. So it's not my kind of music, but I was glad it got the Beach Boys another hit. If I'm talking strictly my taste in music, I'd probably rate it a 4. If I'm looking at the larger picture, though, and what it did for the Beach Boys career, I'd give it a 7. So I'll go with a 6. And Brian sounds great on it.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 21, 2022 20:47:24 GMT
I love the part about New Yorkers getting transformed into Californians. I teach in a suit and a tie and have for 30 years but I'm thinking that one day, just one day I'm going to go in with Hawaiian shirt. I only did that once when Allan B and Steve K were visiting but at some point I'm going to do it everyday. theprofessor, I have a question for you. Please don't feel obligated to answer (or you can PM me for confidentiality), but I'm curious. What subject do you teach and to what age students?
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Post by B.E. on Feb 22, 2022 1:07:01 GMT
If I'm talking strictly my taste in music, I'd probably rate it a 4. That's where I'm at. I'm actually a little surprised I ended up going that high, but after rewatching the video and giving it a fresh listen - it's not quite as embarrassing as I remember it, and I actually enjoy numerous elements of it. The highlight is the backing vocals (I remembered that much). Both the arrangement and the performances. I'd love a backing vocals only mix! I think it's very interesting to hear Brian arrange and sing in that style during that period. At the moment, even with the semi-decent '4' rating, I've got this ranked last place*, but something tells me it won't be last for long! Edit: *Actually, 2nd to last. I forgot about "East Meets West" already.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 22, 2022 1:10:00 GMT
Was there something about Carl's non-participation that we should know?
You'd think so. I'd certainly like to know, regardless.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 22, 2022 4:18:00 GMT
Was there something about Carl's non-participation that we should know?
You'd think so. I'd certainly like to know, regardless. He's not in the video, and he's not audible on the record. Brian's participation, on the other hand, is a surprise. This came out the same year as his first solo single - well, okay, second if you count "Caroline, No".
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Post by jk on Feb 22, 2022 10:50:10 GMT
I didn't hear it at the time, but I like this! Unlike "Smart Girls", it's approached from the hip-hop side rather than from off the bandwagon. Another big difference -- it sounds like they're having fun.
I don't comment much on the recent singles of the week so I'll be generous and award this one ten. "Louie" was another cool cover.
R.I.P. Prince Markie Dee and The Human Beat Box.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 22, 2022 12:48:25 GMT
Here is a later interview (posted in 2021, no idea when it was conducted but maybe around then) with a man who is now the lone surviving member of the Fat Boys giving a perspective you might not think of: how "Wipeout" was seen to some degree as a sellout or career-killer for them. Different subcultures are funny: he didn't know the Beach Boys at all--not like he wasn't personally friends, but didn't know who they were.
Here is an interview with another of the Fat Boys--apparently right near when he died, Feb. 2021--in which he says he was happy to do "Wipeout," but again talks about the impact on their career. Management wanted them to continue in that crossover vein. "'Wipeout' was our answer to Run-DMC's 'Walk This Way.' I thought it was great to do, but then stop it right there, and let's go back to what we did in the beginning. And I couldn't get a response from anybody. It was like, 'now, let's do "The Twist," now! Let's do, something, "Louie Louie" now! And I think that's what kind of drove us musically into the graves, and got less people and less people wanting to listen to what we had to offer."
I watched these ^ and had to comment. I know very little about The Fat Boys, and believe me, I'm not defending the artistic merit (or lack of) of "Wipeout", but...
The Fat Boys followed "Wipeout" with the following singles - "The Twist" (with Chubby Checker) and "Louie Louie". Then they came out with that critically acclaimed, Academy Award-nominated motion picture...Disorderlies. 'Nuff said, bow bow bow.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 22, 2022 12:58:58 GMT
I think that was somewhat the complaint in the latter video.
However, I think many groups that are based, or get famous, on a gimmick end up with similar statements after the fact. The Fat Boys were obviously a novelty group. I don't mean that to insult their ability to rap (or beat box), but just that their hook was, well, it's in the name. As is also noted in one of those interviews, they were used in Krush Groove for comic relief. They were correct in seeing on which side their bread was buttered, and they rode that wave. (How's that for a board-specific tie-in?) But when it faded, they were just "that funny joke-group of fat guys."
It is a struggle that, to a different degree and on a vastly different timeline, affected the Beach Boys, too. They obviously were able to navigate the switch from teen-fad group to legendary pop band, fortunately for us (though not without plenty of embarrassments along the way).
I think these guys, especially in the second interview, were inevitably going to try to reclaim a legacy they never quite had, to paint themselves not as a marketable, disposable distraction for a few years, but as artists who were led astray by bad management.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 22, 2022 14:40:42 GMT
You'd think so. I'd certainly like to know, regardless. He's not in the video, and he's not audible on the record. Brian's participation, on the other hand, is a surprise. This came out the same year as his first solo single - well, okay, second if you count "Caroline, No". Yeah, but has Carl’s non-participation been commented on in interviews or books? It was a big hit, so you’d think it would come up. (And maybe it has?) Now that I think of it, was Al on the track or in the video either? Off the top of my head, I only recall hearing Brian and Mike, and seeing Brian, Mike, and Bruce.
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