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Post by Kapitan on Feb 7, 2022 14:26:34 GMT
As jk noted in the shoutbox, yesterday was the anniversary of Carl Wilson's untimely death in 1998. I thought people might like the opportunity to post their favorite memories of him while he was alive, or their experiences learning of his death.
All I can really do is kick off the thread, because as I said in the shoutbox, I wasn't enough of a fan for his death to leave much of an impression on me. I remember hearing of it, and specifically recall noting how strange it seemed that several obituaries made mention that he often sang inner voices in the harmonies. (It's true, it just seems strangely technical to me to include in major newspapers' obits.)
It must have been very near to the time that I did begin really getting into the Beach Boys. I had a similar experience in the early '90s with Queen, but in that case I had become a fan over the year or so prior to Freddie Mercury's death. So while I wasn't a longtime fan, I was a somewhat big fan by the time Mercury passed. The timing just didn't work out with Carl, and so he was (for me) basically always already gone.
But I know many of you saw him live, followed the band for years--even decades. Care to share your thoughts?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 7, 2022 15:31:40 GMT
My impressions...
Live: I saw Carl live with the band several times between 1978 and his death in 1998. There are three things that always stood out to me. First, when it was Carl's turn to take the lead vocal, it was obvious how much better a singer he was than the other guys, at least live. It was like, "Wow!" He always nailed his lead vocal and got a rousing ovation after each song. Second, it always felt like Carl was being under-utilized in concert. I guess it wasn't his or the group's fault. He just wasn't the lead singer on many of the hits which were being performed. And third, Carl always dressed "professionally", that is he usually went for the distinctive look as opposed to a sloppy or flashy look. And, we're all familiar with some of the guys' on-stage apparel. I can remember some outdoor concerts when it was steaming hot and Carl stuck with a jacket or long-sleeve shirt.
Recordings: It's interesting but early on in my fandom, I wasn't a big fan of Carl. That's probably because I was focusing on the earlier, classic material when
Carl rarely had a lead vocal. I certainly appreciated his 1966-73 period when he came more into his own. And, of course, with Brian retreating, they certainly needed his voice and songs. While I enjoyed his increasing songwriting, I can't say that I was knocked out by it like some fans were/are. I like(d) it but I still found it, quality-wise, behind Brian and Dennis (who was also coming into his own). When I first heard 15 Big Ones, I realized just how essential Carl's singing was to the group. With the possible exception of Al, Carl was now clearly superior as a singer to the rest of the guys. And then, with The Beach Boys Love You, especially L.A. (Light Album), right through Keepin' The Summer Alive, and finally with The Beach Boys 1985 and Summer In Paradise, my opinion changed yet again. I now considered Carl, not just as The Beach Boys' best singer, but as one of the best singers in rock/popular music. He improved, matured, progressed, grew, advanced, whatever. Actually, he was the only singer in the Beach Boys that you could say that about. It's a shame because at that time (post-1976), Carl deserved better material to sing. Maybe that's why he went solo and eventually with Beckley-Lamm-Wilson. I do think at that time, later in Carl's career/life, that he was finally getting the recognition that was due to him as one of the truly great vocalists in the business.
Solo Carl: Frankly, disappointing. I should be specific. Carl Wilson was a major disappointment. I found it boring and lifeless. However, I am a fan of Youngblood. Carl was able to present a fine mixture of rock, pop, and fun. I rank it behind only Pacific Ocean Blue and No Pier Pressure (and maybe Imagination) in the BB solo catalog.
Carl's Death: I was recovering at home from surgery, sitting in my recliner, and the news came on CNN. I was completely shocked and saddened. I did not know his illness had gotten to the terminal stage. Everything I had read was that he was "battling it" or even "beating it". Obviously, in 1997-98, social media wasn't what it is today. You picked up bits and pieces wherever you could. I called one of my Beach Boys' buddies and we commiserated. We talked a little bit about where our favorite band would go from here, or IF it would go on from here.
Today: I can't tell you how many times I've thought or said to myself, "Damn, he was only 51 year old. It's not fair." And, "Why does this have to happen to all of my favorite groups?" Obviously, things have never been the same with the Beach Boys, and Carl's death has prompted many a fan to claim that it's not even The Beach Boys anymore without Carl. That's for another thread. I do occasionally go off on the "what if" trip, but I never come up with any answers. Who knows what would've happened with the band - and Brian - if Carl had lived. Obviously I miss him tremendously, both live and on the subsequent recordings, however few there were. But, oh, how lucky we are to have those spectacular recordings and performances that will live on forever.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 7, 2022 20:48:33 GMT
I was shocked when Carl died. Like Sheriff, I hadn't heard anything other than he was battling cancer; I expected he would make a full recovery. I saw the Beach Boys do a show after a Seattle Mariners concert in 1983. Like Sheriff, I felt that Carl was the best singer in the group at that stage; early in the set, it seemed like they alternated Carl vocals (Darlin', I Can Hear Music) with bigger hits like California Girls, Dance Dance Dance and Sloop John B. Brian was starting to slim down (as part of Landy Phase II), but he didn't do much lead singing during the show. The one time he stepped into the spotlight was to sing Runaway (and dance) with Al. Carl sang What You Do to Me and Rockin' All Over the World, I thought it was nice the group would put those in the setlist. A month later, I saw Carl with his own band (including Myrna Smith - what a lady! - and Billy Hinsche). Darlin' and Long Promised Road were in the show, but otherwise, it was all solo stuff. I'm thankful I got to see Carl solo, got to see more of what he could do. That band really rocked! What More Can I Say, Time, Too Early to Tell, What You Gonna Do About Me - they just blew me away. I remember some idiot screaming "rock and roll!" during the intro of Givin' You Up - how annoying! - and he was quickly told to shut up. A year later, the Boys were at the fair, and Carl dedicated Heaven to Dennis. That and God Only Knows were definitely the highlights of the show. I seem to recall the Boys doing Dancin' in the Streets at an early 90's show with Carl singing lead. Even when the other guys were phoning it in, Carl was the Beach Boy who cared. He had high professional standards. Impossible to replace - but it seems Mike has surrounded himself with good people in recent years. I think Carl would approve of the show Mike and Bruce do today. I still think Carl is underrated. That's why we need an in depth documentary about the band, not just Brian.
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Post by Kapitan on May 20, 2022 19:10:28 GMT
I don't know if there's an especially appropriate thread for this, but I liked the pic.
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Post by jk on Dec 21, 2022 14:51:35 GMT
Carl would have turned 76 today.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2022 16:09:28 GMT
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2022 16:13:00 GMT
Imagine that, if Carl were still alive and singing, his voice would almost certainly have deteriorated. We'd probably be complaining (or at least noting) how he couldn't do it like he used to, just as is true of all of the still-living members. It's actually strange to consider, as his voice had changed through his life but was still fantastic when he got sick.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 21, 2022 19:56:56 GMT
Imagine that, if Carl were still alive and singing, his voice would almost certainly have deteriorated. We'd probably be complaining (or at least noting) how he couldn't do it like he used to, just as is true of all of the still-living members. It's actually strange to consider, as his voice had changed through his life but was still fantastic when he got sick. Are people complaining about how Al sounds today? I hadn't noticed. I can imagine some deterioration in Carl's voice, though, because of the lifelong smoking habit. Has anyone heard Smokey Robinson lately? He plays at our casino every few years, but I'm not ready to pay $100 for a show - even a legend like Smokey. He's gotta be in his 80's now. I used to dream I could sing like him.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2022 19:59:07 GMT
Imagine that, if Carl were still alive and singing, his voice would almost certainly have deteriorated. We'd probably be complaining (or at least noting) how he couldn't do it like he used to, just as is true of all of the still-living members. It's actually strange to consider, as his voice had changed through his life but was still fantastic when he got sick. Are people complaining about how Al sounds today? I hadn't noticed.I can imagine some deterioration in Carl's voice, though, because of the lifelong smoking habit. Has anyone heard Smokey Robinson lately? He plays at our casino every few years, but I'm not ready to pay $100 for a show - even a legend like Smokey. He's gotta be in his 80's now. I used to dream I could sing like him. Complaining, no. But noting (as I said in parentheses right after "complaining" in my post you quoted), yeah, absolutely. First it was a few years of silly "oh, he sounds EXACTLY THE SAME!" stuff, which obviously was not true. (He sounds the best of the originals, no doubt. But exactly the same? Come on...) Now I think it's pretty obvious, and generally discussed.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2022 21:14:53 GMT
Are people complaining about how Al sounds today? I hadn't noticed.I can imagine some deterioration in Carl's voice, though, because of the lifelong smoking habit. Has anyone heard Smokey Robinson lately? He plays at our casino every few years, but I'm not ready to pay $100 for a show - even a legend like Smokey. He's gotta be in his 80's now. I used to dream I could sing like him. Complaining, no. But noting (as I said in parentheses right after "complaining" in my post you quoted), yeah, absolutely. First it was a few years of silly "oh, he sounds EXACTLY THE SAME!" stuff, which obviously was not true. (He sounds the best of the originals, no doubt. But exactly the same? Come on...) Now I think it's pretty obvious, and generally discussed. I think, like Al, Carl would've escaped major deterioration with his voice. I don't know how much he would've maintained sounding "like his old self", but I think, again like Al, it would've been close enough.
I have this theory that some singers can go through their career without major deterioration where their voice becomes a shell of what it was. Do they sound older and not as...strong? Yes, of course, but they still sound respectable and like their old selves. On the other hand, you have singers like Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Stephen Stills, George Harrison for awhile, Gordon Lightfoot, Whitney Houston, kind of Elton John, maybe Stevie Nicks, and yes, maybe Mike Love , who hit a wall - sometimes by their own devices - and never sound the same again. But I think if singers can avoid those roadblocks and pitfalls, they can sustain their "old" voice for their entire career.
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Post by B.E. on Dec 21, 2022 23:58:35 GMT
I have this theory that some singers can go through their career without major deterioration where their voice becomes a shell of what it was. Do they sound older and not as...strong? Yes, of course, but they still sound respectable and like their old selves. On the other hand, you have singers like Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Stephen Stills, George Harrison for awhile, Gordon Lightfoot, Whitney Houston, kind of Elton John, maybe Stevie Nicks, and yes, maybe Mike Love , who hit a wall - sometimes by their own devices - and never sound the same again. But I think if singers can avoid those roadblocks and pitfalls, they can sustain their "old" voice for their entire career. Some can, some can't. For some it's genetics, others it's discipline. I wouldn't include George Harrison in that list, though. He was sick in 1974. Otherwise, his voice was remarkably consistent throughout his career. Only his latest recordings, when he was sick again, was there a noticeable change/decline.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 22, 2022 0:23:51 GMT
I think there are clearly degrees of deterioration, but as is the case in sports and life itself, Father Time is undefeated. I've never heard someone in his/her 70s who sounds as good as in their 20s or 30s. Good, yes. But differently good, finding ways to compensate for deterioration: less range, less power, less clarity. With men in particular there is a hollowness and hoarseness that seems to happen, sometimes earlier and sometimes later, sometimes seemingly overnight.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
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Post by Emdeeh on Dec 22, 2022 4:24:38 GMT
lonelysummer, Carl quit smoking in the early '80s. I do wonder sometimes how he would sound today, if he were still with us. I'd like to think he would sound a little older, but still good. But it's all wishful thinking. Anyway, I celebrated his birthday today with my CW playlist. ❤️🎸❤️
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 22, 2022 8:18:22 GMT
I have this theory that some singers can go through their career without major deterioration where their voice becomes a shell of what it was. Do they sound older and not as...strong? Yes, of course, but they still sound respectable and like their old selves. On the other hand, you have singers like Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Stephen Stills, George Harrison for awhile, Gordon Lightfoot, Whitney Houston, kind of Elton John, maybe Stevie Nicks, and yes, maybe Mike Love , who hit a wall - sometimes by their own devices - and never sound the same again. But I think if singers can avoid those roadblocks and pitfalls, they can sustain their "old" voice for their entire career. Some can, some can't. For some it's genetics, others it's discipline. I wouldn't include George Harrison in that list, though. He was sick in 1974. Otherwise, his voice was remarkably consistent throughout his career. Only his latest recordings, when he was sick again, was there a noticeable change/decline. I saw Gordon Lightfoot at a theater in Tacoma back in 2000 - one of the best shows I've ever been to. All of the band members had been with him since the 70's; wide range of material from throughout his catalogue; he looked and sounded great. Fast foward to 2013, he's at the local casino, and the show is partially ruined by drunk sailors singing along to the big hits LOUD. But the man thing, Gordon's voice was so thin. He was still doing the songs in the original keys, and the band was fine, but he sounded so weak; I've seen recent photos, and he looks very frail. It's sad to see our heroes grow old and weak. I'm not gonna tell someone else when to stop, but I don't have any interest in seeing him again in this weakened condition. George Harrison did lose some range in his voice in his final recordings. My Sweet Lord 2000 is an example. His voice is much thinner, too. He went the better part of a decade without singing on any new recordings (other than a few lines on Free As a Bird), maybe that made the contrast much greater. The attack on him at the end of 1999 didn't do him any favors. A lifetime of smoking didn't help, either. I'd like to think that, if Carl had lived into the 2000's, that Beckley/Lamm/Wilson would have done a few shows together. And he might have taken another leave of absence from the Beach Boys. Sometimes I think about what a Beckley/Lamm/Wilson show might have looked like. - Today
- Does Anybody Really Know What Time it Is
- Daisy Jane
- Darlin'
- Feel the Spirit
- Without Her
- I Wish For You
- Heaven
- I Need You
- Life in Motion
- Right Before Your Eyes
- Long Promised Road
- Make Me Smile
- Like A Brother
- Beginnings
- Sister Golden Hair
- Rockin' All Over the World
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