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Post by Kapitan on Sept 6, 2021 11:41:00 GMT
It was only six months or so since the Beach Boys had released their single "Surf's Up." But their next single sounded as if from another decade.
Of course, it was. The November 1971 single "Surf's Up" was largely built from remnants of Brian Wilson's exquisite chamber pop of the middle '60s. "You Need a Mess of Help," released May 15, 1972, is a rootsy, rough-around-the-edges rock song, something from a whole other band. Another genre.
Written by Brian Wilson and Jack Rieley, the song was completed by Carl Wilson, who also took the gritty lead vocal. The song includes countrified touches including fiddles, pedal steel guitar, and banjo as well as an updated take on the classic Beach Boys harmonies--looser, and with the newly added voices of Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar.
The B-side, "Cuddle Up," was a Dennis Wilson/Daryl Dragon collaboration originally intended for Wilson's solo album. The dramatic ballad begins softly, a piano and vocal, swelling with layers of vocals and orchestration for more than five minutes.
Neither song charted throughout most of the world. (The A-side did reach #29 in the Netherlands.)
Please discuss and rate "You Need a Mess of Help" and "Cuddle Up."
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Post by jk on Sept 6, 2021 12:41:04 GMT
Neither song charted throughout most of the world. (The A-side did reach #29 in the Netherlands.)
Please discuss and rate "You Need a Mess of Help" and "Cuddle Up."
Can't beat the Dutch. I've always loved this clip of "YNAMOHTSA", shot at Brighton Pavilion (UK) if I'm not mistaken: I'll let that sway me on this occasion and award it 8 points. (It's taking me ages to get to appreciate C&tP:ST -- that pseudo-gospel track is the main offender. So I'm not there yet.)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 6, 2021 12:55:14 GMT
We talked about how some of the Beach Boys' 1970-71 singles were starting to sound very unBeach Boys-like. Well, "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" takes it a step further. I wonder how many people heard that song on the radio and immediately recognized The Beach Boys or Carl Wilson's voice? Based on record sales and airplay, probably not many. I always thought "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" was a meshing of two songs, the verse and the "She don't know" part. It's kind of a scary, part-psychedelic, country-ish, stoned, and yes, cool song. What was Brian thinking? He was really starting to change wasn't he. Jack Reiley was influencing the tenor of his music I believe, starting with the Surf's Up songs. There was some good aspects of it, I guess. It WAS getting "out there". For a long time I viewed "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" as "meh", but now I like it. Despite the merits of the song, I think it was a poor choice for a single. I can't hear it on AM radio or FM radio.
"Cuddle Up" is a favorite of mine. I love it. I think it's a Top 5 Dennis Wilson song. I think it's a Top 5 underrated BB song, too. It's so romantic. Great performance. Touching vocal. Dennis showed his soft side. I am very surprised that "Cuddle Up" has not been covered by more artists. I always thought somebody would put a slow dance beat to it and have a hit single with it. I also thought, like "Forever", it would be rediscovered. Hopefully some day...
While "Cuddle Up" makes a great B-side, "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" does not make a great A-side. I'm not surprised it bombed. A kind 7.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 6, 2021 14:11:33 GMT
I love "Mess of Help." It's got to be among my 20 favorite Beach Boys songs ever. And I think it sounds to me like a great single, though obviously the US and UK and bulk of the world in 1972 did not share the sentiment.
"Cuddle Up" I don't rate quite as highly. It is--as is so often the case with Dennis's music for me--a bit much. But it's pretty.
I'm probably going with an 8, but I'll hold off a few days to keep listening, discussing, and thinking.
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
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Post by Emdeeh on Sept 6, 2021 15:50:49 GMT
I also love “Mess of Help.” Carl’s rockin’ out on it. I never heard it played on US radio, back in the day. “Cuddle Up” is a lush Denny ballad, but not in the same category as “Forever,” so it pulls my rating down slightly — gets a 7.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 6, 2021 20:36:10 GMT
“Mess of Help.” ... I never heard it played on US radio, back in the day. Out of curiosity, does anyone recall hearing this on the radio at the time?
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 6, 2021 21:09:31 GMT
Mess of Help is a pretty good track. Not classic, but it was a better choice for a single than they'd had in a couple years. Good arrangement, though. I like the arrangement better than the song itself. Cuddle Up is one of those songs that has me reacting "okay, so this is what all the fuss is about Dennis Wilson". I've said before, he wrote songs I loved, and probably an equal amount that do nothing for me. This is one of the good ones - in fact, probably in my top 5 DW songs. Just achingly beautiful. Didn't Captain and Tenniel cover this one? I'll give this single a solid 7
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 6, 2021 21:20:34 GMT
Good arrangement, though. I like the arrangement better than the song itself. Love the observation.
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Post by jk on Sept 6, 2021 21:40:44 GMT
“Mess of Help.” ... I never heard it played on US radio, back in the day. Out of curiosity, does anyone recall hearing this on the radio at the time? I can't recall hearing it back then (and I do recall hearing "Sail On, Sailor" at the time).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 7, 2021 11:40:46 GMT
“Mess of Help.” ... I never heard it played on US radio, back in the day. Out of curiosity, does anyone recall hearing this on the radio at the time? From "Good Vibrations" in late 1966 until "Rock And Roll Music" in 1976, with the possible exceptions of "I Can Hear Music" and "Sail On Sailor", I don't recall hearing The Beach Boys' singles on the radio.
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Post by kds on Sept 7, 2021 13:10:02 GMT
I don't really have any strong feelings for Mess of Help. I think it's an OK rocker, but nothing really special. And, to be 100% honest, I'm not really a huge fan of Carl's lead on it. I'm not a huge fan of when he goes for a "rough rocker" vocal. I actually think the song might've suited Dennis better, or even Blondie, but I don't think they'd want a new voice the lead off the first album and single with this lineup.
I enjoy Cuddle Up for about the first three minutes. I really don't think it needs to be a five and a half minute song.
I'm torn between a six and a seven here. I'm going to go with a six, but it's probably a 6.42.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 7, 2021 14:24:11 GMT
I don't really have any strong feelings for Mess of Help. I think it's an OK rocker, but nothing really special. And, to be 100% honest, I'm not really a huge fan of Carl's lead on it. I'm not a huge fan of when he goes for a "rough rocker" vocal. I actually think the song might've suited Dennis better, or even Blondie, but I don't think they'd want a new voice the lead off the first album and single with this lineup. They were really trying to change weren't they? New band members, the topical, relevant lyrics, a new "sound". Even if it might've been NOT who they were, they were trying...new things. But nobody was listening, at least not to the singles and albums. Endless Summer was looming in the shadows.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 7, 2021 14:59:11 GMT
The comments from people who remember 1972 make me wonder to some degree: did Beach Boys fans really reject "Mess of Help" (and other singles from the era), or did they just not really hear it/them? It doesn't seem like there was much in terms of a promotional push.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 7, 2021 15:15:28 GMT
The comments from people who remember 1972 make me wonder to some degree: did Beach Boys fans really reject "Mess of Help" (and other singles from the era), or did they just not really hear it/them? It doesn't seem like there was much in terms of a promotional push. I think it was combination of all three. I think The Beach Boys lost a large percentage of fans, progressively, with Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends. And, many of their old fans just "grew up" and moved on to other groups.
Yes, I do think many of the singles were NOT being heard. And, of course, without hit singles or even charting singles, the album sales are going to be adversely affected. One depends on the other, at least they did with a group like The Beach Boys.
I don't know enough about the the record company's promotional efforts - good or bad - from 1967-1973. I do think they weren't always on the same page. Like The Beatles, The Beach Boys were never able to transition into an "album group", much in the way The Beatles did from Rubber Soul onward. They certainly could've started with Pet Sounds (and maybe SD&SN), but by following Pet Sounds with those short, quirky 1967-68 albums, well...
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 7, 2021 15:29:43 GMT
The comments from people who remember 1972 make me wonder to some degree: did Beach Boys fans really reject "Mess of Help" (and other singles from the era), or did they just not really hear it/them? It doesn't seem like there was much in terms of a promotional push. I think it was combination of all three. I think The Beach Boys lost a large percentage of fans, progressively, with Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends. And, many of their old fans just "grew up" and moved on to other groups.
Yes, I do think many of the singles were NOT being heard. And, of course, without hit singles or even charting singles, the album sales are going to be adversely affected. One depends on the other, at least they did with a group like The Beach Boys. The tough thing about that is, the shedding of fans at some of those post-Pet Sounds albums wouldn't really have been an indicator, necessarily, about how those fans might have received some of these early '70s albums. Who's to say that just because someone hated Smiley Smile that they wouldn't have loved CATP, or that someone who wasn't into Friends mightn't have liked Surf's Up?
That's where it seems the promotional efforts would matter so much: because just because you stopped listening somewhere in the past, that doesn't mean you mightn't have found them appealing if you gave them a "second chance to make a first impression" (to use the old dandruff shampoo line!).
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