sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Jan 1, 2022 19:12:42 GMT
Thank you for politely correcting me on the time signature! I don't know why I was thinking 6/8, when it's clearly a waltz feel! I must have been thinking with my blues brain when I wrote this 4 years ago..... While I've got this track highlighted, doesn't it sound like something from a late 1960s "hip" musical or comedy movie (or both)? It could have been composed by....oh, I can't think of any names from that era right now.... Maybe a little Bacharach-ish? For sure, I get the feel you're talking. As for the time signature, I've always been one of those people who fails to distinguish, to be honest. I mean, sometimes it's obvious, but often you could look at it a few ways. For 3/4 v 6/8, sometimes there doesn't seem to me to be much of a difference between counting 1-2-3, 1-2-3 and 1-2-3, 2-2-3. But fwiw, I was thinking of this one in 3.
That late '60s "hip" (or maybe "sophisticated") feel is fundamental to Wondermints in general. I guess the exotica feel, the lounge feel, and the aesthetic all play into that as well. They had every bit as much of that as they did '60s pop-rock.
Back to the album, it's a shame (for us) that this was basically the end. I don't recall them ever talking about doing another album, and I assume it's because they generally seemed to be getting other work. Darian began working with so many touring acts from Heart to the Zombies as well as his job with Disney. I'd guess financially life got a lot easier without trying to create and sell (without much success) Wondermints songs. And as we mentioned earlier, they weren't ever the kind of road warriors to get out there and play across the country to build an audience, at least as far as I can see.
Well, I'm certainly no music expert, but my understanding in the timing is that the distinguishing factor is the emphasis or downbeat that creates the slightly different feel. In other words 3/4=ONE two three, ONE two three while 6/8=ONE two three four five six, ONE two three four five six. I dunno, I may be right or wrong on that. I've never had any formal music training beyond high school and a few Community College courses. Regarding a follow up to Mind if...yes, I was always bummed that the Mints never released a blockbuster sequel to that finely crafted album. Heck, I had just discovered them! I remember constantly asking Coach Hanes when the next album is coming out. He would just answer "They're all pretty busy right now with other projects. I haven't heard anything...." Considering what they've each accomplished since then, I guess I can't blame them. I saw Darian playing with Heart at our local county fair, but me and my then-wife had to stand outside the gate since we hadn't bought tickets for the show (which had quickly sold out). I remember some teenagers walking up next to us, and the guy turned to his girlfriend, and pointing to the guy behind the keyboard, excitedly said, "There's Darian! What an amazing performer!" I turned to the young fellow and gave him a nod and a thumbs up. I was thrilled these kids knew who he was!
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 1, 2022 19:25:16 GMT
Well, I'm certainly no music expert, but my understanding in the timing is that the distinguishing factor is the emphasis or downbeat that creates the slightly different feel. In other words 3/4=ONE two three, ONE two three while 6/8=ONE two three four five six, ONE two three four five six. I dunno, I may be right or wrong on that. I've never had any formal music training beyond high school and a few Community College courses. I did have formal training including as a music theory/comp major for a couple years in college, but still would never pretend to know everything (and it's been a long time...). From my understanding, you're kind-of right: it is about the emphasis, though usually 6/8 is thought of more as being "in 2," but with three subdivisions per beat. So generally you'd count it ONE-two-three, TWO-two-three. It's pretty rare that there's a song in 6/8 (or 6/anything) that is truly an even six. Just like how something in 7/4 or 7/8 is usually more like 3+4 or 4+3 than it is just 7. jk or joshilynhoisington might have some insights to add, as well.
But yes, it's about emphasis. I think my issue is, I usually just think "ok, but because of [whatever], that makes this work, too." I recall reading a cool Steve Vai interview long ago where he talks about transcribing music for F Zappa, and having some questions like that, too. "Should this be in 2 or 4?" And FZ basically saying "go with whatever you think is best." In other words, I think a lot of it is in the interpretation, in the musician's approach, as opposed to something like pitch, where a C is a C, a Bb is a Bb, etc.
btw cool story about seeing Heart with Darian. I don't know what it is about the pleasure a person gets seeing younger generations be excited about the same things you are, but it is a very real thing. On one hand, who cares if some kid likes or doesn't like what I like? But on the other, for whatever reason, we just do (as people)!
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Post by joshilynhoisington on Jan 1, 2022 20:20:41 GMT
Well, I'm certainly no music expert, but my understanding in the timing is that the distinguishing factor is the emphasis or downbeat that creates the slightly different feel. In other words 3/4=ONE two three, ONE two three while 6/8=ONE two three four five six, ONE two three four five six. I dunno, I may be right or wrong on that. I've never had any formal music training beyond high school and a few Community College courses. I did have formal training including as a music theory/comp major for a couple years in college, but still would never pretend to know everything (and it's been a long time...). From my understanding, you're kind-of right: it is about the emphasis, though usually 6/8 is thought of more as being "in 2," but with three subdivisions per beat. So generally you'd count it ONE-two-three, TWO-two-three. It's pretty rare that there's a song in 6/8 (or 6/anything) that is truly an even six. Just like how something in 7/4 or 7/8 is usually more like 3+4 or 4+3 than it is just 7. jk or joshilynhoisington might have some insights to add, as well.
But yes, it's about emphasis. I think my issue is, I usually just think "ok, but because of [whatever], that makes this work, too." I recall reading a cool Steve Vai interview long ago where he talks about transcribing music for F Zappa, and having some questions like that, too. "Should this be in 2 or 4?" And FZ basically saying "go with whatever you think is best." In other words, I think a lot of it is in the interpretation, in the musician's approach, as opposed to something like pitch, where a C is a C, a Bb is a Bb, etc.
btw cool story about seeing Heart with Darian. I don't know what it is about the pleasure a person gets seeing younger generations be excited about the same things you are, but it is a very real thing. On one hand, who cares if some kid likes or doesn't like what I like? But on the other, for whatever reason, we just do (as people)!
No matter what way you slice it, a bar of 3/4 and a bar of 6/8 both end up with 6 eighth notes in them. So the reason for distinguishing between them is indeed about feel but also is very important for sight reading. Both the feel of a rhythm AND the ability to read rhythms at sight come down to the underlying pulse. If a song is in 3/4 (or 6/4 for that matter) it's not just a way for the notator of the music to tell us that there will be three quarter notes to a bar -- it's also a shorthand to tell us that we are going to be feeling the pulse as a single unit of triple meter (although there are some very interesting unwritten conventions in hardcore Vienna waltzes that give it a sort of lurching uneven feel). Seeing 6/8 tells us that there are six eight notes in a bar, but oddly enough, is not a shorthand for feeling the pulse in sextuple units; it's oddly enough a shorthand that we'll feel the pulse largely as a two big beats with an underlining triplet feel. This is a sort of baked-in understanding of meter -- it's why you rarely see something notated in, say 8/8 -- there's really no practical benefit to feeling the 8ths differently between 4/4 and 8/8, because 8 is reducible to both 4 and 2, whereas 6 is reducible to 2, but also to 3, which is an odd number. Ultimately, the feel of a song is there to be manipulated by the performer is the song is being created as a head arrangement, like so much pop music is -- but these distinctions make a HUGE difference if you are in the business of performing music from written scores. If a conductor tried to conduct a 6/8 passage as if it were a 3/4 passage, it would be a disaster. Anyway -- don't get me started!
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Post by jk on Jan 1, 2022 22:37:22 GMT
Well, I'm certainly no music expert, but my understanding in the timing is that the distinguishing factor is the emphasis or downbeat that creates the slightly different feel. In other words 3/4=ONE two three, ONE two three while 6/8=ONE two three four five six, ONE two three four five six. I dunno, I may be right or wrong on that. I've never had any formal music training beyond high school and a few Community College courses. I did have formal training including as a music theory/comp major for a couple years in college, but still would never pretend to know everything (and it's been a long time...). From my understanding, you're kind-of right: it is about the emphasis, though usually 6/8 is thought of more as being "in 2," but with three subdivisions per beat. So generally you'd count it ONE-two-three, TWO-two-three. It's pretty rare that there's a song in 6/8 (or 6/anything) that is truly an even six. Just like how something in 7/4 or 7/8 is usually more like 3+4 or 4+3 than it is just 7. jk or joshilynhoisington might have some insights to add, as well.
JH is much better equipped to chime in than JK (thanks anyway!), but I would say that 7/8 is most likely to be 2+2+3 and 5/8 is most likely to be 2+3. The Mothers of Invention's "Flower Punk" uses both 2+3 and 2+2+3 in groups of four. A good example of 7/4 (2+2+3) is Dave Brubeck's "Unsquare Dance". Lastly, the first "classical" use of 5/4 throughout (the second movement of Tchaikovsky's Pathétique Symphony) is subdivided as 2+3.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 26, 2022 21:20:35 GMT
Not a Wondermints song, but I thought I'd post here that Adam Marsland recently released a new video for an older song, "The Big Bear," which features background vocals by Darian Sahanaja and Probyn Gregory.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Jan 29, 2022 20:19:58 GMT
Not a Wondermints song, but I thought I'd post here that Adam Marsland recently released a new video for an older song, "The Big Bear," which features background vocals by Darian Sahanaja and Probyn Gregory.
Adam's music reminds me a little bit of some of the Smithereens' vintage cover tunes. I really like that sound.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 13, 2023 15:12:49 GMT
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