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Post by Kapitan on Nov 9, 2021 23:26:10 GMT
I gave this another listen Sunday and stand behind me initial post: I prefer it to the debut, and honestly it's not close. The debut is maybe a 6.5 or so for me, based on great performances and cool arrangements but only a couple of songs I actually think stand up. This, which has the obvious advantage of them cherry-picking cool (and in some cases classic) songs they'd want to do, is more like an 8 or so for me. It might be my second-favorite. I'll have to rethink that as we proceed and I give fresh listens to the next ones. It's been a while.
Honestly I rarely think about the originals of these songs, and some of them I don't know if I've so much as heard the originals. But (however sacrilegious this might be) I prefer this "Guess I'm Dumb" to the original, for example. And maybe (now I'm in for it) "Ooh Child," too! I feel like sockit and I would make a good pair on some radio show or something, because I think we have opposite opinions on plenty of these songs! For example, "Barbarella" and "Louise" are two more on this album I really love as they are. We could grumpily contradict one another!
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Nov 10, 2021 23:29:01 GMT
Honestly I rarely think about the originals of these songs, and some of them I don't know if I've so much as heard the originals. But (however sacrilegious this might be) I prefer this "Guess I'm Dumb" to the original, for example. And maybe (now I'm in for it) "Ooh Child," too! I feel like sockit and I would make a good pair on some radio show or something, because I think we have opposite opinions on plenty of these songs! For example, "Barbarella" and "Louise" are two more on this album I really love as they are. We could grumpily contradict one another!
Interesting idea! It would have to be a morning show cause I'm especially grumpy in the mornings! But I must say I agree 100% with you regarding "Guess I'm Dumb". Even though it's a wonderful song in and of itself and Glen Campbell was a remarkable singer, I always felt that he never quite sold it. Maybe that idea is swayed by the fact that he went on to greatness with songs of a whole different style. Had he quit after "GID", maybe I would see it differently. Anyway, I think Darian "owns" this cover and the arrangement is pretty innovative. I really appreciate the idea that we are quite polarized on some aspects of this music. It makes for great discussion, and I hope other folks will be able to listen to the links and chime in.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 10, 2021 23:46:43 GMT
Agreed that it would be great for others to chime in! Even if you're not familiar, it's easy enough to scan the (free, once you're online) music. And considering their association with Brian Wilson (and the Beach Boys in '12), relevant to the board. I'd also add, if you happen to like them less than sockit and I do, that's no crime, either. Lord knows we each have those otherwise sacred cows that we don't personally get (said, for example, the guy who has been lukewarm on Dennis Wilson for years).
For a specific point of agreement, "Guess I'm Dumb": YES. I totally think Darian outdid Campbell, and I think Campbell was an absolutely fabulous musician, both vocally and instrumentally. The original always felt to me like neither fish nor fowl: not a Beach Boys song, but not a Glen Campbell song. Whether he didn't sell it or just wasn't right, I don't know. But this version is, for me, superior.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 15, 2021 0:01:06 GMT
Fun artifact of Wondermints as a still-active band, live in Tokyo in '99. (Brian Wilson was there at the time, so this seems to have been a well timed gig.)
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Nov 17, 2021 0:23:48 GMT
Thanks for posting that live set, Kapitan. I've never heard that one before. Obviously it's promoting Bali, so I'll take that as a cue to move forward to that album. BALI This was my second Wondermints acquisition, the first being Mind if We Make Love to You. One thing that struck me right off was how different it was in style from that album. While Mind... is a summer-y, sunshiny collection of tunes, Bali is an all out concept album with all kinds of surprises, filled with exotic sounds (mostly electronic) and a variety of classic rock influences. I knew this album was going to be something unusual the first time I loaded the disc in my player and noticed.....this CD has 99 tracks! What? ?!! More on that in a moment. 1.) Arnaldo Said--Starts out with a brief spoken word introduction, reportedly a clip from a tape submitted by an unrelated opera singer. The song itself provides a strong, catchy start to the album. 2.) Sting O' Luv--A more subdued tune with some nice group vocals. Could have fit in nicely with the breezy Mind if We Make Love to You, but with the surreal instrumentation sprinkled throughout and the strange carnival ending it's very much at home on Bali. 3.) In and Around Greg Lake--Very Beatlesque without being a nostalgia-fest. Some great wordplay in the lyrics, such as "Heckle or Jeckle on Hyde..." although one may find the verse referring to the Challenger disaster to be a bit disturbing--"Didn't even have a chance/In a spiral we dance..." The swoosh of guitar and synth at this point makes it all the more unsettling. 4.) My Id/Entity--More clever wordplay, even in the title. Between the feel of the time signature and the prominent harpsichord synth, this song slightly strikes me as something the Doors could have put out. 5.) Telemetry--A slow sad song about longing for a loved one, with a big open sounding musical arrangement. 6.) Chris-Craft No. 10--Channeling the Who with busy pounding drum riffs and driving guitars, overlaid with soaring vocals. Not sure how a love song using a boat as a centerpiece in this context can be taken seriously, but somehow it works! 7.) Cellophane--This funky tune with its walkie-talkie lead vocal and tremolo-ed backing vocals was a clear choice for a single. Nice production all around. 8.) Dreamachine--A fairly straight forward rock tune with a funky groove provided by a moving bassline. The chorus has somewhat of a garage band feeling to it with a descending fuzz guitar sound. 9.) Spoke of a Wheel Whirled--A slow spooky tune wandering into seriously dark territory. When the choruses suddenly pick up in intensity (but not tempo) it's a bit jarring. In a good way, of course! 10.) Hypnolove--According to the liner notes: Hypno-bass by Carol Kaye. Nice! This song has all kinds of things going on including a solid driving bassline. 11.) Puppet Grrls R Go--Another song with a lot going on, this time including some apparent sampling. A quirky little tune, but certainly not out of place on this album! 12.) Wanderlust--A powerful hard rocking song, and my favorite on the whole album. I first heard this song years ago on a local college radio station before I knew anything about Wondermints. 13.) Bali--Obviously inspired by Little Pad? Seems to have a similar vibe. Nice way to close the album.....or did it? But wait! There's more! About those other 80+ tracks I mentioned earlier. Waves, man. It's all waves! Well, not exactly all. Somewhere in the middle (don't remember the track number) you can hear the old Marine Boy cartoon theme song in the background. And then at the very end of the disc: 99.) Rejected Beer Ad #2--At some point Wondermints did a tune plugging Coors beer, that unfortunately got nixed. Cool bar-band style song...makes me wonder what #1 was like? EDIT: #1 is on a rare, very expensive compilation CD, but I lost the link. I got a chance to listen to it once, and it’s quite different than #2. So, if we were rating these, I'd put it at around 9. Not perfect, but very highly recommended. Bali gets a lot of listens at my house, and in my car.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 17, 2021 12:33:02 GMT
My first brief comment on this is, Bali was the first Wondermints album I purchased, and I did so relatively contemporaneously. I'm guessing I got it in '99 or maybe as late as '00. There is no question why I bought it: I'd heard they were the core of Brian Wilson's band.
I suspect it was '00, with Live at the Roxy being my introduction to them, but that could be wrong. (I don't know that I would have bought them sound-unheard, and I don't know where I might have heard them prior to that live album. But it's possible I'd just read enough about them to be sufficiently excited.)
Anyway, I was a little surprised it didn't sound more like the Beach Boys, but very, very excited toward the album and the band. Loved it then, still love it now. It might be my favorite 'mints album. "Arnaldo Said" and "Puppet Grrls R Go" both sound like absolute hits to me.
Speaking of "Arnaldo Said," here is something interesting noted earlier on the board by @robesimo:
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Nov 18, 2021 0:18:59 GMT
My first brief comment on this is, Bali was the first Wondermints album I purchased, and I did so relatively contemporaneously. I'm guessing I got it in '99 or maybe as late as '00. There is no question why I bought it: I'd heard they were the core of Brian Wilson's band.
I suspect it was '00, with Live at the Roxy being my introduction to them, but that could be wrong. (I don't know that I would have bought them sound-unheard, and I don't know where I might have heard them prior to that live album. But it's possible I'd just read enough about them to be sufficiently excited.)
Anyway, I was a little surprised it didn't sound more like the Beach Boys, but very, very excited toward the album and the band. Loved it then, still love it now. It might be my favorite 'mints album. "Arnaldo Said" and "Puppet Grrls R Go" both sound like absolute hits to me.
Speaking of "Arnaldo Said," here is something interesting noted earlier on the board by @robesimo :
I remember that. It was the second time I saw a post referencing that. The first time was a response on PSC by pianoOwl: Quote:>> "Arnaldo Said" -- the "Arnaldo" being Arnaldo Baptista, who was basically, if my understanding is right, the Syd Barrett of Os Mutantes (hence the lyric "Mutantes out to get you", and the possible sampling of Mutantes' song "Algo Mais"). Oh, man, what a killer opener. D'Amico really kicks major ass on the drums on this one. BTW, didn't see it mentioned here, but if I recall correctly, the story about the spoken intro...it comes from an audition tape. I think it was supplied by Darian's then-boss, but I could be mistaken. The story is that a tape arrived with a cover letter from an opera singer. What you hear is exactly how the tape started -- it wasn't Darian being goofy, it was the singer from the tape. And apparently the singing throughout the tape was laughably unbearable. Problem, though: there was no name or address so that the tape could be properly rejected!<<
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 18, 2021 21:01:26 GMT
I don't mean to stray too far from the discography topic, but a question occurred to me today: did Wondermints ever really tour the country while they were still an active band?
All I can recall ever seeing or reading about--mostly after the fact, since as noted I only heard of them right around '99-00, near the end of their lifespan as an active band--are shows they did in Los Angeles or abroad. Were they ever a touring band in the greater U.S.?
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Nov 18, 2021 23:37:09 GMT
I don't mean to stray too far from the discography topic, but a question occurred to me today: did Wondermints ever really tour the country while they were still an active band?
All I can recall ever seeing or reading about--mostly after the fact, since as noted I only heard of them right around '99-00, near the end of their lifespan as an active band--are shows they did in Los Angeles or abroad. Were they ever a touring band in the greater U.S.?
No problem, I think we should discuss anything Wondermints here. There's plenty of time to go through five albums! Lol! That's a good question you pose. I've only heard of them doing performances mainly in Japan. Apparently they were quite popular in Japan (and should have been, in the U.S.). I have an interview dvd from ESQ, of Darian, Nick, and Probyn which I haven't watched in about 10 years. Me thinks I need to revisit it soon, and then maybe I'll have more answers.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Dec 4, 2021 0:09:59 GMT
MIND IF WE MAKE LOVE TO YOUMind if We Make Love to You was released shortly after I met Bob Hanes and he encouraged me to order copies of the cd for myself and my friends and family. Bob was very excited about this release and once I got my copy, I could understand why. What an amazing collection of songs! It reminded me right off of something that could have been released sometime around the 1970-72 era. I'm going to say right off that I would rate this album a 10; there is not one thing I would change....except the packaging. I hate digipacks! But that has nothing to do with the music... 1.) On the Run--Starts rather abruptly with no musical intro; just jumping right into the vocals. Nice, airy summertime vocals backed with exciting instrumentation. "Let us hold the good things on the run..." You know where this is going! Interesting thing happens at the end though. The song builds and builds...then stops very abruptly. On my first listen I was wondering what just happened? Is there a problem with the cd? No, not at all. 2.) Ride--If they had released a single from this album, this would be it. My favorite song on this album and very Sunflower-sounding, in my book. If you listen closely, especially on headphones, you can hear Brian in there singing one of the low parts on "motor ride motor ooh...." 3.) Shine on Me--Nice little rhythmic tune with a bit of an R&B flavor, largely due to a soulful backing vocal at the end by Evie Sands. 4.) Time Has You--A mellow lazy summer day tune that features some melodic guitar sounds and a nice production all around. 5.) Another Way--Another personal favorite. A memorable piano intro is incorporated throughout, tying together parts of the song. The instrumental break with an oboe lead, backed with lush instrumentation and backing vocals is simply breathtaking. 6.) Project 11--Another easy-going song, this one is notable for the vibraphone part throughout. 7.) Out of Mind--Pretty catchy song. I remember whenever I played this in the car when my kids were young, they would sing along to the vocal "bop bop bop bop..." intro. 8.) Sweetness--Apparently an extension of the previous song as they are linked. 9.) If I Were You--One of the more upbeat songs on the album featuring a moving bassline and piano riff. Picks things up nicely after a run of fairly mellow songs. 10.) Something I Knew--A cheerful pop-sounding 6/8 tune that picks up the pace even a little further. 11.) Listen--This is the one song on the album that I initially found just ever so slightly perplexing. It starts out mellow, gradually builds, builds, and then seems to go nowhere. I have since learned to appreciate the song for what it is—not exactly filler, but more of…well a break, I suppose. It’s a nice song; just don’t expect a big finish. Save that for the next song, which ends the album on a nice, chipper, happy mood…. 12.) So Nice--Great album ender with Brian belting out the "I know there is no one..." line on the choruses.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 31, 2021 18:10:05 GMT
I've unfortunately let this slip because I keep meaning to re-listen to the album first, and just haven't done it yet. Especially working on my own little year-end playlist the past few days. But I do mean to give it a fresh hearing, because I really like it. The two songs Brian sang on were always my favorites. I like to think it's not just because he's on them, but that they're the two best songs there. But who knows, I might just be letting my bias show.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 1, 2022 16:31:29 GMT
Listening again, I would say that Bali is indeed probably my favorite Wondermints album. However, I think I might like the sound of Mind if We Make Love to You best, the warmer and sometimes drier, more up-front sound. On the Run - I love the mellow opening to the album that builds slowly to that first refrain, which is epic in scope without pummeling you. It just feels big, broad, wide, whatever the word is. It’s very simple (especially for Wondermints), but that ascending verse and aforementioned refrain just hit the spot. And I LOVE the breakdown, the “ba da ba ba dahhh…” That’s the kind of little changeup that is necessary (for me) in a song like this, that otherwise can feel a little samey or underwhelming by the end, even when the parts are cool. Ride - Love it as much as anything they ever did, probably. Cool organ sound played in that very Wilsonesque, “keeping time” quarter notes way, and an almost sickly sweet vocal in the verses that turns tough (well, for Wondermints) sound in the driving refrain. That bass in the refrain is great, too, with its octave-slides. I don’t know what it is, they’re almost lewd. And the second half of the refrain is just great, the “I know we’ll never…” And then an orchestrated break? This song has everything but the kitchen sink. In my world, songs like this are hits. Sadly instead this one is basically unknown to the world. Shine the Light - For whatever reason, I never connected to this. Huge refrain, big melody, but for me it falls flat. The verses…I just don’t like (especially the drum beat, which reminds me of something Eels might have done—with a programmed drum—around that time). My favorite part of the song is definitely the pre-chorus. Time Has You - The second Walusko song also is the second warm, mellow song, in terms of vibe. The acoustic guitar’s prominence is part of that, of course. But so is his vocal, which doesn’t stretch his range and (to use the word again) is really warm, inviting. It’s relaxed and strong without being belted out. Really gorgeous tune. Another Way - Sahanaja is so gifted. This one reminds me somewhat of the Zombies, especially that main piano part. It’s not a great song, but it’s a recording that gets the most out of the song between the song itself, the arrangement, the performances, and the production. Project 11 - Our first D’Amico song brings a different vibe, the first exotica feeling on the album. I like the background vocals best on this song, but overall it’s not a favorite. Out of Mind - I’ll admit it: I’m a huge sucker for “doot doodoots,” “bap bas,” and “dit dits” and the like. So this one can’t help but tickle me the right way. It’s also a nice little bit of pace, a nice pick-me-up beat. Sweetness - I don’t know quite what’s going on, but the universe may be conspiring. I started out on YouTube for convenience’s sake, but the only full album playlist I found was missing “Sweetness.” So I searched it separately: no dice. So I searched Spotify, which had nothing for Wondermints. So I got my CD, which had an error on this track and would not play it. So I googled it and found it on Spotify after all … until I got there and it wasn’t playable. (The “play” button simply was grayed out, and didn’t work.) Tried a second link and got an “Unable to locate” message. Seriously, has the NSA or FBI or the Illuminati done something with this? And sadly I have to admit I don’t really remember the song. So I can’t comment, other than to say I can’t find the damn thing.
EDIT - I just re-read sockit's post and see "Sweetness" was a linking track. I'm glad at least that I hadn't totally forgotten a real song! If I Were You - I really like the harmony vocals. Something I Knew - The switch into a nice, loping three is a great change of pace/texture. Something about accenting the ONE and two AND three and ONE-two-three also almost makes it feel like it’s not in a normal time signature, but dropping a beat somewhere…though it isn’t, it’s just a matter of accents. Easily my favorite of D’Amico’s songs on the album. Listen - A well-done recording/production of a song that sadly I just don’t like much. Usually I’m all over Sahanaja’s songs, especially ballads. But this one, I miss out. So Nice - Getting back on track for Sahanaja balladry, one of the band’s top songs ever. Unlike “Listen,” for example, this is the kind of song a person can easily imagine singing. You don’t need an instrument, a band, an arrangement. You could just sing this melody on its own for fun, and it’s beautiful. Then the arrangement, naturally for Sahanaja, grows increasingly complex with absolutely beautiful vocals through the refrain. The coda is gorgeous. As I said, this and “Ride” are my two highlights of the album. I don’t think it’s because Brian Wilson is on them, either, but rather I suspect they had him on them because they were the two best songs. At least that’s my rationalization that I’m not just a BW apologist.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Jan 1, 2022 18:00:36 GMT
Nice rundown, Kapitan! I didn't see anything here that I would strongly disagree with. Mind if... and Bali are clearly the pinnacle of the Wondermints album catalog. I almost like them equally as favorites, but for different reasons. You could say that Mind if... was the Mints' Sunflower while Bali was their SMiLE.
I completely agree that Ride and So Nice are clearly the album's standouts. I can't say that in my case it had anything to do with Brian's involvement. I had those two songs pegged the first time I listened to the cd, and that was before reading the liner notes so I had no idea he was in there. But once I learned he was in the vocal stack I put on my headphones and gave those two songs another listen, and lo and behold...there he was! His part is very subtle and well blended, but it's unmistakably BW.
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
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Post by sockit on Jan 1, 2022 18:24:39 GMT
Something I Knew - The switch into a nice, loping three is a great change of pace/texture. Something about accenting the ONE and two AND three and ONE-two-three also almost makes it feel like it’s not in a normal time signature, but dropping a beat somewhere…though it isn’t, it’s just a matter of accents. Easily my favorite of D’Amico’s songs on the album. Thank you for politely correcting me on the time signature! I don't know why I was thinking 6/8, when it's clearly a waltz feel! I must have been thinking with my blues brain when I wrote this 4 years ago..... While I've got this track highlighted, doesn't it sound like something from a late 1960s "hip" musical or comedy movie (or both)? It could have been composed by....oh, I can't think of any names from that era right now.... Maybe a little Bacharach-ish?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 1, 2022 18:37:03 GMT
Something I Knew - The switch into a nice, loping three is a great change of pace/texture. Something about accenting the ONE and two AND three and ONE-two-three also almost makes it feel like it’s not in a normal time signature, but dropping a beat somewhere…though it isn’t, it’s just a matter of accents. Easily my favorite of D’Amico’s songs on the album. Thank you for politely correcting me on the time signature! I don't know why I was thinking 6/8, when it's clearly a waltz feel! I must have been thinking with my blues brain when I wrote this 4 years ago..... While I've got this track highlighted, doesn't it sound like something from a late 1960s "hip" musical or comedy movie (or both)? It could have been composed by....oh, I can't think of any names from that era right now.... Maybe a little Bacharach-ish? For sure, I get the feel you're talking. As for the time signature, I've always been one of those people who fails to distinguish, to be honest. I mean, sometimes it's obvious, but often you could look at it a few ways. For 3/4 v 6/8, sometimes there doesn't seem to me to be much of a difference between counting 1-2-3, 1-2-3 and 1-2-3, 2-2-3. But fwiw, I was thinking of this one in 3.
That late '60s "hip" (or maybe "sophisticated") feel is fundamental to Wondermints in general. I guess the exotica feel, the lounge feel, and the aesthetic all play into that as well. They had every bit as much of that as they did '60s pop-rock.
Back to the album, it's a shame (for us) that this was basically the end. I don't recall them ever talking about doing another album, and I assume it's because they generally seemed to be getting other work. Darian began working with so many touring acts from Heart to the Zombies as well as his job with Disney. I'd guess financially life got a lot easier without trying to create and sell (without much success) Wondermints songs. And as we mentioned earlier, they weren't ever the kind of road warriors to get out there and play across the country to build an audience, at least as far as I can see.
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