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NBA
Apr 28, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 28, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Inspired by the Kukoc story, I want to pose a question to anyone interested in the NBA.
What rookie(s) were you most interested in watching join the NBA, and why? It can be a high schooler, collegian, international--anyone new to the league. If you'd like to share any context, or more than one player/story, that would be fun. Have at it, as much as you'd like. I've got probably half a dozen in mind, myself...
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NBA
Apr 28, 2020 15:12:46 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 28, 2020 15:12:46 GMT
One other minor criticism... I'm often fascinated by some coaches just as much as the players. I thought they could've covered the replacing of Stan Albeck with Doug Collins and then replacing Collins with Phil Jackson more in depth. Being a 76ers fan, I have some interest in Doug Collins' history. I was disappointed in just that one short comment by Collins saying that he "sensed" Phil Jackson would be a or the Head Coach. Doug is a talker and I'm sure he has a lot to say on the subject.
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NBA
Apr 28, 2020 15:22:25 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 28, 2020 15:22:25 GMT
Doug is a talker and I'm sure he has a lot to say on the subject. I'm sure he does, too, but the question was repeated and he kept responding the same way. I think that was a very deliberate, intentional effort to stay out of the mud. Honestly I thought his one- or two-word response said a lot.
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NBA
Apr 28, 2020 19:30:43 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 28, 2020 19:30:43 GMT
Inspired by the Kukoc story, I want to pose a question to anyone interested in the NBA.
What rookie(s) were you most interested in watching join the NBA, and why? It can be a high schooler, collegian, international--anyone new to the league. If you'd like to share any context, or more than one player/story, that would be fun. Have at it, as much as you'd like. I've got probably half a dozen in mind, myself...
I'll go with 76ers rookie, Jerry Stackhouse.
The Sixers drafted "The Next Jordan" No. 1 and 3rd overall in 1995. Stack won all kind of awards at North Carolina and Dean Smith couldn't say enough great things about him. For the first two years, it appeared that all of the praise was warranted. Jerry could do it all. He could shoot from the outside, but driving to the basket - and dunking - was his forte'. He was great on the fast break. He was a decent rebounder and defensive player. Jerry Stackhouse just looked like a superstar waiting to happen. He averaged 20 points per game in his first two seasons, but the Sixers were terrible during the early 1990's. They hired these interesting coaches like Doug Moe, John Lucas, and Johnny Davis, but they couldn't build anything. Finally, Jerry Stackhouse was going to be the foundation to build a team on...a new era!
Things got even better when Allen Iverson was drafted and Larry Brown came on board in 1997. I looked forward to seeing Stackhouse and Iverson for the next ten years. And then, just as quickly, it all fell apart. Well, actually, it never came together. Some called it a chemistry problem. Maybe one basketball wasn't enough for both Stackhouse and Iverson. Add to that, Larry Brown was big on roles, the team concept, and "playing the right way". While statistically Stackhouse and Iverson were producing, the team struggled. I don't know all the circumstances behind it, but then Stack announces that he's playing out his option and won't be resigning with the 76ers next season. And, the next thing you know he was traded to Detroit - and then coach, Doug Collins. The Sixers got Theo Ratliff, a couple of role players, and a No. 1 draft pick. Stackhouse went on to have some great seasons with Detroit, but eventually injuries caught up with him.
But for that year or two from 1995-1998, I thought the Sixers had someone special. I wish Larry Brown could've spun his magic and made it work for the Sixers. And me.
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NBA
Apr 28, 2020 19:39:16 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 28, 2020 19:39:16 GMT
Love it! I remember that well, too. Brown definitely had an entirely different idea of how to build around Iverson, and I can't really say he was wrong: they were quite successful by giving AI the ball and surrounding him by shooters, defenders, and rebounders. Aaron McKie, Eric Snow, Matt Harpring, Dikembe Mutombo, George Lynch, Todd MacCullough, Theo Ratliff, Toni Kukoc...
Stackhouse was really an exciting prospect. I was thrilled to see him at UNC, as he had quite a reputation from high school but in those days you might read a blurb here or there, but rarely saw HS players until maybe the McDonalds game or the then-new Hoop Summit. He and Rasheed Wallace (and Jeff McInnis) were an exciting bunch of young players.
But you're right that he never did quite live up to his promise. That seems to be the case for a high percentage of players who entered the league in the 90s. (I'm not sure exactly why, though I have some guesses.)
And now he's the head coach at Vanderbilt!
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 12:39:03 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 29, 2020 12:39:03 GMT
The rookies question...
Toni Kukoc Obviously, right? I referenced him as the inspiration of the little sub-thread discussion. But he was near the front-end of the internationalization of the game. When he was drafted in '90, he was known as a teenage, Yugoslavian (Croatia not having split yet) Magic Johnson leading a Benneton Treviso team to European titles. In that era, we had Vlade Divac as almost inarguably the most successful European in the NBA. Drazen Petrovic had shaken off a rough start to become a star within a few years. Dino Radja was an immediately respectable player for Boston. But mostly imports were role players (Alexander Volkov) or disappointments (Aleksandr Djordjevic, Zarko Paspalj).
Magic Johnson was probably my favorite player, and so the idea of a new, young, excitingly international one to replace the aging one was VERY enticing. Frankly, my love affair with international players started there and never subsided. In fact, I've always had a special soft spot for (the former) Yugoslavians in particular.
Kukoc did not turn out to be the next Magic Johnson, but he was one hell of a player. About 6-10, a better passer than any point guard he ever played with that I can recall, eventually a knockdown shooter ... just a really good player. The kind of versatile, skilled guy I love, especially in bigger players.
I have many more, but I'll defer for now.
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 16:46:30 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 29, 2020 16:46:30 GMT
I remember the Sixers had Kukoc for a cup of coffee. There were high hopes, acquiring one of the Bulls, but he was a little disappointing, inconsistent. I don't recall if he was injured or his role just wasn't a major one.
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 17:38:22 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 29, 2020 17:38:22 GMT
I remember the Sixers had Kukoc for a cup of coffee. There were high hopes, acquiring one of the Bulls, but he was a little disappointing, inconsistent. I don't recall if he was injured or his role just wasn't a major one. During the Iverson era, right? I would imagine the biggest issue was that Kukoc was at his best as a facilitator, and Iverson was one of the most ball-dominant players, well, probably ever. So if you're just asking Kukoc to stand in the corner and wait for a kickout pass to hit a 3, I think that's just not his strength. (Not that he's not a good shooter: he was just under 34% 3pt for his career, but over 40% 3pt his second season with Philly after an abysmal previous year split between Chicago and Philly.)
Anyway, he was definitely a guy I looked forward to, as he was something of a novelty before he arrived to the league. I've got another highly anticipated rookie choice coming this afternoon!
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 18:13:09 GMT
B.E. likes this
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 29, 2020 18:13:09 GMT
I just came across this article on Chicago's firing of Stan Albeck in 1986. Very interesting:
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 18:24:18 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 29, 2020 18:24:18 GMT
VERY interesting. And honestly par for the course for Jerry Krause, in my opinion. (And he was able to keep Reinsdorf mostly on his side.) He--a baseball scout, remember--fell in love, and he fell out of love. So a few years later, guess what? Goodbye, Collins, fired midseason and replaced by the next object of Krause's affections, Phil Jackson. And then eight years down the line, it's Tim Floyd.
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 18:28:05 GMT
B.E. likes this
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 29, 2020 18:28:05 GMT
And this one, this time it was Doug Collins' turn:
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 19:50:13 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 29, 2020 19:50:13 GMT
Another rookie I was really excited to see enter the league is...
Pooh Richardson It's possible you don't even remember Jerome "Pooh" Richardson, but I sure do! See, while he was really just an otherwise nondescript late-lottery prospect our of UCLA in 1989, one of the top point guard prospects (and the first off the board) alongside Mookie Blaylock, Tim Hardaway, Dana Barros, and BJ Armstrong, he stood out to me because he was the Minnesota Timberwolves' first ever 1st round draft pick.
I knew him only from the sort of draft preview that existed in those days, a few-page feature in Sport or Sports Illustrated magazine. In those days, it would be a short profile on a few specific players, then like a one-sentence recap as part of a mock draft (maybe just a mock lottery, even). That preview had Minnesota taking Stanford's ambidextrous off-guard Todd Lichti, by the way. Oh well.
But especially when our supplemental draft pick David Rivers didn't ever come to Minnesota, my interest was largely on Pooh (as well as former DePaul forward Tyrone Corbin and former LA Laker and Ohio State wing Tony Campbell). Sadly, Pooh didn't start right away. Head coach Bill Musselman wasn't a fan of rookies or especially of turnovers. Veteran Sidney Lowe wasn't very good, but he was steady and had a 5.25:1 assist to turnover ratio. Richardson had a 4:1 ratio--AMAZING!--but not good enough. It took 38 games for Pooh to get the starting job, but he retained it until he was traded a few seasons later to Indiana.
Pooh performed admirably for the woeful Wolves, averaging 11.4 ppg, 6.8 apg, and shooting over 46% FG as a rookie. He was even better the next two seasons, arguably in the top tier of PGs below All-Star level. But in an effort to bring in some firepower, he was packaged with defensive stalwart Sam Mitchell for Chuck "The Rifleman" Person and oft-injured but talented PG Michael Williams in 1992. (In six seasons with Minnesota, Williams played in only 182 games, including a total of 35 over the final four seasons.)
Pooh Richardson might not seem memorable to you, but for a young fan of the brand-new Wolves, he was a rare example of youth, athleticism, dynamism, and--sorry, but it's true--talent! I was really excited to watch him enter the league, and he didn't disappoint.
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 20:48:59 GMT
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 29, 2020 20:48:59 GMT
I remember Pooh Richardson. He was a Philly guy who ended up on the West coast where he shined at UCLA. Sixers' fans wanted the team to trade up to get him, but at the time (1989) they had Hersey Hawkins, Johnny Dawkins, and Scott Brooks. Instead they drafted Kenny Paine No. 1 and were subsequently hammered by fans and the press. Poor Kenny never had a chance; he was a good guy but he was a bust.
But, yeah, for a couple of years Pooh was one of the better PGs in the league.
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Apr 29, 2020 21:20:12 GMT
Post by Kapitan on Apr 29, 2020 21:20:12 GMT
I remember Pooh Richardson. He was a Philly guy who ended up on the West coast where he shined at UCLA. Sixers' fans wanted the team to trade up to get him, but at the time (1989) they had Hersey Hawkins, Johnny Dawkins, and Scott Brooks.
Scott Brooks, who we traded for just prior to Pooh's second season to be our backup. In my head, it was for the rights to Rick Mahorn, who never reported to Minnesota after being taken in the expansion draft the previous year. But I had conflated two trades; we sent Mahorn to Philly for the pick that became Gerald Glass in 1990.
I loved Scott Brooks as a backup. Or as we playfully called him every time, "the gritty, gutty Scotty Brooks."
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NBA
Apr 29, 2020 21:53:56 GMT
Post by B.E. on Apr 29, 2020 21:53:56 GMT
Thanks for sharing those articles on Albeck and Collins, SJS. I was also disappointed in Collins' refusal to discuss his firing. I actually thought the documentary did a respectable job in covering it, as they didn't completely gloss over it. We see the success that Collins' Bulls had and we see Phil Jackson seemingly snake his job (and suffer the same fate the following playoff). That said, I agree with Kapitan that Collins' weak response is telling nonetheless. It's interesting that the Collins article claims the firing was all Reinsdorf (a player, no less, concerned that Krause would look like the bad guy). Regardless, the hiring of Phil as an assistant and head coach were HUGE wins for management. In hindsight, it's a nobrainer, but at the time? May have been guts, may have been luck, but Reinsdorf and Krause deserve a lot of credit. It was also nice to see some better times between Krause and the players. I believe it was footage from their 1991 championship celebration where Krause was dancing on the team bus and all the players were chanting his name. Seemed like a genuine, nice moment. Another take-away for me was DENNIS RODMAN. Okay, specifically, how hard it is to figure that guy out. What a fascinating character! He seems to both care and not care at all times. If you're enjoying Rodman too, here's a little more (and a different side) of him. One last point, I'd like to know where you guys stand in regard to Isiah Thomas, the non-handshake, and the dream team. I have mixed feelings. I may even contradict myself. First, I thought the documentary did a great job covering it. Watching MJ's raw emotion was one of the highlights of the documentary. He nearly refused to even listen to Isiah's comments. I'm not cheering him on, but that's captivating stuff. And, we hear both sides of the story. I thought Isiah did a great job in the documentary. Reminding audiences of how the Celtics passed the torch to the Pistons and seeing that footage again was a great point to make. By the way, I'd LOVE to know what McHale was saying to Isiah and Vinnie as he walked off. It didn't look too friendly or congratulatory! Anyway, that segment was great and got me thinking back to my playing days. I surely wasn't the epitome of sportsmanship and neither were the teams I played on. There were nasty moments and if we shook hands afterwards it had nothing to do with respect and everything to do with protocol. It's so easy to look back and say, "gee, that wasn't my finest moment, perhaps I should have behaved better," but in the heat of the moment!? Immediately following a bitter rivalry or even a physical altercation? Personally, I wouldn't give a damn if the opposing team walked off like that (as Horace Grant expressed), and I could (conceivably) see myself going along with a walk off (though, I like to think I wouldn't). So, I clearly have sympathy for Isiah and the Pistons, but ultimately I side with MJ. He's just not wrong. The best point he makes is that he shook their hands after each preceding beatdown and heartbreak. Not to mention, Isiah just looks like such a punk the way he swaggers off the court right in front of them. There is something about his personality that is just very unlikable. Which is why he wasn't selected to the dream team. It wasn't just that MJ was mad at him over this one incident, but that numerous members of the dream team didn't like him for numerous reasons. Were they being petty? Yes. But, they were constructing a team, right? Was Isiah a better fit than Stockton, for example? That brings me to Isiah parading all around sports media trying to make it all about him being snubbed from the dream team. It's disingenuous. He had the same platform MJ had to tell his side and he did a great job telling it. That should have been it. So to recap - the Pistons should have shook hands, that they didn't isn't that big of a deal (despite how hurt MJ was/is), and while Isiah probably should have been on the dream team that was never something guaranteed to him or anyone else. P.S. Isiah appeared to have bad luck w/the Olympics. His 1980 team boycotted and he was injured for dream team II.
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