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Post by Kapitan on Jun 11, 2021 15:30:54 GMT
In the metal thread, KDS and I were talking about how the politics/business of labels can really impact who gets what opportunity, and when. We've also talked in the past about labels having different amounts of patience with developing musicians (and how over time I think consensus is that time frame has shrunk to virtually zero).
It got me thinking, what artist or band was given the longest leash, worked the longest, before finally having a great success? A big hit, a classic album, whatever. Can you think of someone who got three, four, five, six albums before finally making it big?
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 11, 2021 15:39:08 GMT
I'm not chiming in with an answer to my question here, but exceptions. Somewhat counterintuitively--at least to me--a lot of great artists have either very good debuts, or at least reach greatness early on.
Frank Zappa & the MOI, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix Experience, the Velvet Underground, the Band, for example, all had debuts that have long been rated among their best. (To be fair, some of them had been knocking about as unsigned acts for quite a while before their record deals.)
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Post by kds on Jun 11, 2021 16:53:18 GMT
Rush comes to mind. Their first three albums aren't bad, but they didn't really make a dent. So, their fourth album was pretty much a make or break album, and had it failed, they might've packed it in. But, that fourth album was 2112. The rest is history.
You might be able to make an argument for Pink Floyd. They had some successful singles out of the gate, but after replacing Syd Barrett with David Gilmour, they were lost in the weeds for a bit. Although, Atom Heart Mother and Meddle (their 5th and 6th albums) sold pretty well in the UK, they didn't really hit paydirt until their 8th album - Dark Side of the Moon.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 11, 2021 19:44:27 GMT
We don't have to go any further than the Beach Boys. I think that, despite some commercial successes, Reprise lost a lot of money on the band between 1970-1978, as did Caribou from 1979-1981. Also, while there were several record companies involved, I would be surprised if any of them made any significant money on The Beach Boys' solo albums. They were mostly commercial disasters.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 11, 2021 19:54:01 GMT
How long would you say we waited for the first great Beach Boys album? Obviously the whole scene was different then, with singles more important than albums, and they had legit hit singles starting with their second single ("Surfin' Safari").
But in the spirit of the thread, their first really good album? The big payoff for signing them? To me it's either their third (Surfer Girl) or their sixth (All Summer Long).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 11, 2021 20:07:05 GMT
That's hard to answer. To me, yeah, the first really good album would be the Surfer Girl/Little Deuce Coupe entries. So, in that case, yeah, Capitol only had to wait one year and two albums. While I don't know the sales figures, from Capitol's point of view, I would think they were making money from day one with the Surfin' Safari album. Capitol probably considered that album...good. But, I wasn't really singling Capitol Records out.
Reprise was a much different situation, very up-and-down. Sunflower bombed, then Surf's Up was a success. Holland peaked at only #36 and Carl & The Passions was a disaster. Of course, 15 Big Ones was a commercial success, then it was downhill with Love You and M.I.U. Out of that bunch, how many albums did Reprise really cash in on? Two? Surf's Up and 15 Big Ones? The comps and In Concert were different animals.
Hey, both record companies (and Caribou) couldn't wait to drop The Beach Boys. They had enough. Had they been making more money, I don't think you would've seen that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 1:16:58 GMT
One particular group that comes mind is Scorpions. Unless you were a diehard fan of the group from their beginning, you wouldn't know that by the time they hit it big with MTV and major metal tours in the 1980s, they had nearly half a dozen almost unheard of albums under their belt starting in the early 1970s.
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Post by kds on Jun 12, 2021 1:21:16 GMT
One particular group that comes mind is Scorpions. Unless you were a diehard fan of the group from their beginning, you wouldn't know that by the time they hit it big with MTV and major metal tours in the 1980s, they had nearly half a dozen almost unheard of albums under their belt starting in the early 1970s. Great minds. I was actually about to post about Scorpions. I'll admit, I was actually pretty unaware of their pre Mercury years until I was in my 20s. Getting a copy of Taken By Force on sale at a local record store completely changed my perception of that band.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 12, 2021 4:00:17 GMT
That's hard to answer. To me, yeah, the first really good album would be the Surfer Girl/Little Deuce Coupe entries. So, in that case, yeah, Capitol only had to wait one year and two albums. While I don't know the sales figures, from Capitol's point of view, I would think they were making money from day one with the Surfin' Safari album. Capitol probably considered that album...good. But, I wasn't really singling Capitol Records out.
Reprise was a much different situation, very up-and-down. Sunflower bombed, then Surf's Up was a success. Holland peaked at only #36 and Carl & The Passions was a disaster. Of course, 15 Big Ones was a commercial success, then it was downhill with Love You and M.I.U. Out of that bunch, how many albums did Reprise really cash in on? Two? Surf's Up and 15 Big Ones? The comps and In Concert were different animals.
Hey, both record companies (and Caribou) couldn't wait to drop The Beach Boys. They had enough. Had they been making more money, I don't think you would've seen that.
Surf's Up peaked at #29 in Billboard; did it chart higher in Cashbox or Record World? Holland peaked at #36, so that's not a great difference between the two - and I think Holland may have been on the charts longer. The Beach Boys in Concert peaked at #25. In the early days with Capitol, the focus was on singles more than albums, and the Beach Boys had more hits than anybody not named the Beatles in the years 1962-66. Back to the original point, I'll use Charlie Rich as an example. Started off at Sun Records in the late 50's; had a top 20 hit in 1960 with Lonely Weekends. Hit the top 40 again in 1965 with Mohair Sam on Smash Records. Otherwise, it was one flop record after another, until he moved over to Epic Records in the early 70's, and started having some hits on the country charts. Then, in 1973, the big payoff with Behind Closed Doors. #1 country single, top 20 pop hit, and the album was on the charts for 3 years. The Most Beautiful Girl gave him a #1 pop hit later that year. Then the floodgates opened - all the labels he had recorded for previously reissued his old recordings, and they sold pretty well. In early 74, he had two singles on the charts simultaneously - There Won't Be Anymore on RCA, and A Very Special Love Song on Epic. He continued to have country hits through the rest of the 70's; but commercial success was not something he was comfortable with. He wasn't really interested in cutting and endless string of MOR country records. He loved jazz, blues, gospel, rock and roll; it could be said that maybe he was just too good for commercial success. But he was lucky that labels continued to invest in him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 14:35:57 GMT
Talking Heads, maybe? I think their first commercially successful album was "Speaking in Tongues", released in 1983. Not that the previous albums were big failures, but at least they weren't nearly as popular. Still, a run of 6 years and 4 entire LPs until their commercial breakthrough... I don't think a label would hold on to an artists this way nowadays. I would agree that Talking Heads applies. I was never a fan of the group, and even got burned out on repetitious plays of songs like "Burning Down the House" on MTV in the 1980s. My friends and I had never heard of them before that, but recently I have been discovering some of their 1970s music. Currently I cannot get enough of the song "Psycho Killer".
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Post by Moon Dawg on Jun 12, 2021 15:10:55 GMT
Talking Heads had success well before SPEAKING IN TONGUES. Their 1978 cover of Al Green's "Take Me to the River" was a Top 40 hit single (I'm pretty sure anyway.) TH 77, MORE SONGS ABOUT BUILDINGS & FOOD, FEAR OF MUSIC, and REMAIN IN LIGHT all did decent business. Can't quote any chart positions.
Glen Campbell is a guy who had a long wait for greatness. Started in pick up bands in the 50s, became a top session guy early 60s, but his career as a recording artist was relatively slow in developing. Capitol considered dropping him from contract before "Gentle On My Mind" zoomed him into the stratosphere, 1967.
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Post by kds on Jun 13, 2021 0:17:39 GMT
Judas Priest had a somewhat similar career arch as Scorpions. They released five albums from 1975-1979 that did OK. But, it wasn't until Tom Allom took over as producer and helped them streamline their sound for 80s radio and MTV that they became Metal Gods.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 13, 2021 6:50:03 GMT
Talking Heads had success well before SPEAKING IN TONGUES. Their 1978 cover of Al Green's "Take Me to the River" was a Top 40 hit single (I'm pretty sure anyway.) 77, MORE SONGS ABOUT BUILDINGS & FOOD, FEAR OF MUSIC, and REMAIN IN LIGHT all did decent business. Can't quote any chart positions. Glen Campbell is a guy who had a long wait for greatness. Started in pick up bands in the 50s, became a top session guy early 60s, but his career as a recording artist was relatively slow in developing. Capitol considered dropping him from contract before "Gentle On My Mind" zoomed him into the stratosphere, 1967. I was well aware of Talking Heads long before Burning Down the House, mainly because of Take me To the River, but there were a few other songs that got played on our FM stations. Good call on Campbell. He recorded Turn Around, Look at Me way back in 1961, and it was a nationally charting record, but the big hits didn't come until 67-68. The general public may not have known of him, but people in the biz sure did. He was playing on Rick Nelson sessions as far back as 1961, and then pretty soon he was playing on sessions for Nat King Cole, Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Phil Spector, and probably anyone else you can think of.
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Post by jk on Jun 23, 2021 17:25:14 GMT
One of the most heartbreaking waits is that of Eva Cassidy. She had been dead for two years before her music became internationally known (see the wiki page). This is her take on Sting's "Fields Of Gold". If this doesn't bring tears to your eyes, nothing will. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Cassidy
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