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Post by Kapitan on Nov 16, 2021 15:52:33 GMT
There are a few things to share from Paul related to Pipes of Peace.
First, here is a 30+ minute BBC interview from March '83 about the album.
Second, here is a 30+ minute Dec. '83 MTV interview.
Finally, here is a little in-studio segment, about 7 minutes' worth showing the mixing of the video soundtrack (from Dec. '83).
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Post by kds on Nov 16, 2021 16:44:00 GMT
While Pipes of Peace is a massive improvement over Old Wave--and no surprise there--I'm not a huge fan of it. I don't think it's as good as Tug of War. But it isn't bad, either. I'm less familiar with it, so it'll take me a few listens to say a whole lot.
There is something about Paul in this era where it seems like he's not sure what he wants to do. Beatlesque complex pop, schmaltzy ballads, funkier electronic fare, or what? Not that a musician has to do just one thing, by any means. A little stylistic variety keeps things interesting. But for whatever reason, sometimes that approach seems to be a plus, and other times a minus. It feels to me more like the latter in this case.
But also, I don't blame him. Not only is he now trying to continue a career after the breakup of the Beatles (which is a huge thing, the Ghost of Beatles Past), but to navigate the rapidly changing contemporary pop or rock scenes while in his 40s. In 1973, you could still see what was going on with your peers from a few years ago and be part of that royalty. But that royalty has turned to the old guard by the '80s. MTV is upon us. There are stars half your age.
As I've--and probably we all have--written before, the '80s seemed like a particularly challenging time for artists of the '60s and even '70s in some cases. A whole new world. Should you tease your hair, wear neon headbands or pastel jackets with the sleeves rolled? Replace your rhythm section with drum machines and synth bass? Toss out the real piano and organ for a Roland so someone can play those soft, airy tones of the day?
Edit - and something else on that: should a veteran change course to go with the times, it could easily be seen as selling out, or a cash grab. After all, our own Sheriff John Stone raised that very question with respect to McCartney pairing up with one of the hottest stars of that era. I don't really mind some 80s gloss for artists like McCartney. I think Clapton, McCartney, Harrison, Pink Floyd, The Stones, The Who, all released some very solid material in the decade. Where I tend to jump off a bit if when they lean a little too far into the skid, then we get stuff like McCartney II, Roger Waters - Radio KAOS, or even Brian Wilson '88 where I feel like the production outshines the material.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 16, 2021 17:59:46 GMT
I don't have a specific position on it, really. Like you said, it works sometimes for some people; it is embarrassing sometimes for others. I just think it's worth noticing with legacy artists, as they get into that "damned if you do, damned if you don't" point in their careers. (Which we've discussed plenty.)
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Post by kds on Nov 16, 2021 18:59:39 GMT
I think overall, POP is a pleasant album. Definitely a step down from Tug of War, but it doesn't come close to McCartney II territory. A more recent comparison might be Gone Troppo, in that both are pretty lightweight fare, but I think GT has stronger overall material.
I think Average Person is a very strong song though. I also have a bit of a soft spot for The Man, even if it sounds like the theme to a TGIF sitcom.
I was never really a fan of Say Say Say, and I think Tug of Peace is a pretty lackluster attempt to call back Paul's previous LP.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 16, 2021 19:04:44 GMT
I also have a bit of a soft spot for The Man, even if it sounds like the theme to a TGIF sitcom. There is just something about pop from the late 70s to early 80s period that seems like this for me! I must have said so about three George songs by now, too.
Somewhere Alan Thicke is looking down (or up) saying, "see? I'm as talented as a Beatle!"
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Post by kds on Nov 16, 2021 19:11:03 GMT
I also have a bit of a soft spot for The Man, even if it sounds like the theme to a TGIF sitcom. There is just something about pop from the late 70s to early 80s period that seems like this for me! I must have said so about three George songs by now, too.
Somewhere Alan Thicke is looking down (or up) saying, "see? I'm as talented as a Beatle!"
Lol, right when I hear The Man, other than the Eddie Murray association, I can picture somebody like Thicke or Bob Saget walking out of an office with a briefcase, and a big cheesy smile, lifting his fist as we freeze frame and hear "This is theee maaaaaaannnnnn."
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Post by B.E. on Nov 17, 2021 0:45:46 GMT
This might very well be my least favorite Beatles solo album to date. But I want to give it another listen before I dismiss the hell out of it.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 17, 2021 1:15:02 GMT
This might very well be my least favorite Beatles solo album to date. But I want to give it another listen before I dismiss the hell out of it. Now that's interesting.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 17, 2021 4:46:11 GMT
This might very well be my least favorite Beatles solo album to date. But I want to give it another listen before I dismiss the hell out of it. Now that's interesting. Actually, that's what I expect to hear about this album. My memory is that the critics were very, very generous in their praise of Tug of War. I think it was written into the Rock Critics Guide to Ethics, that they were only allowed to praise one McCartney album per decade. They all loved Band on the Run; "okay, we're good for ten years, now we can go back to slogging off anything with the name McCartney or Wings on it". Tug of War fit the bill; then it was back to trashing him for Pipes of Peace. I remember buying this album the first day I saw it in the store. There were several 60's legends all with new albums out that week - the Rolling Stones Undercover of the Night, Bob Dylan Infidels, Paul Simon Hearts and Bones, and the other Paul with Pipes of Peace. I also remember Simon and McCartney being singled out in Billboard's year end issue as commercial disappointments. Simon's album peaked at 30 something, while Macca peaked outside the top 10 - a first in his career, counting Beatles, Wings, and solo (but not counting albums like The Early Beatles, which was simply Capitol's version of Vee Jay's Beatles album). It kind of makes me laugh in retrospect; both Paul's would LOVE to to have new songs that get played on mainstream radio. Macca would love to have a #1 hit - Say Say Say - today. The 80's was kind of the last gasp as far as contemporary music for the icons of the 60's.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 17, 2021 12:17:28 GMT
This might belong in the MTV thread, but I'll post it here...In 1982-83, MTV was really coming into its own. And, many of the old rock & roll legends were migrating to MTV or soon would be, including The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, The Who, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Robert Plant, soon The Beach Boys, soon KISS, and even Blue Oyster Cult (for crissakes with "Burnin' For You"). And then came Paul McCartney. He was everywhere. "Coming Up" had a video. MTV was playing "Lucille" from the Concert For The People Of Kampuchea. Tug Of War had a couple of videos. Pipes Of Peace had THREE videos. Ringo kept popping up. Paul even had a short cameo in the Tracey Ullman "They Don't Know" video. Later there was Live Aid. Overexposure? I don't know. Maybe. But, after Tug Of War, I think he was leaking oil quality-wise. This wasn't Ram or Band On The Run stuff. We'll be getting to it soon, but Give My Regards To Broadstreet was then promoted heavily on MTV; it was everywhere. My point? I don't know if I have one. Maybe that Paul was really trying to be relevant again, or continue to be relevant, but was experiencing what his peers were experiencing. He was now in his 40's and trying to compete... with kids...for kids. I didn't know what to think. Even though I wasn't crazy about the Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson duets, I guess I was pulling for him, and was curious as to where he was going after Pipes Of Peace.
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Post by kds on Nov 17, 2021 14:33:18 GMT
This might very well be my least favorite Beatles solo album to date. But I want to give it another listen before I dismiss the hell out of it. Even worse than some of those Ringo albums? Or even Sometime in NYC?
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 17, 2021 14:47:45 GMT
This wasn't Ram or Band On The Run stuff. I'm not sure it's any worse than Ram, but it's certainly more polished and commercially oriented pop. So that may just be a matter of tastes. I actually think the songs are significantly stronger on Pipes of Peace than on Ram.
Obviously based on me placing it as somewhere near Ram territory in general, though, I strongly disagree with--or at least am curious to hear more reasoning and feelings behind-- B.E.'s contention that it's the worst overall. While I don't know exactly where I'll rate it, it's certainly better than Some Time in NYC and Rock 'n' Roll by John; probably everything exept Ringo! from Ringo; at least half of George's albums; and both self-titled McCartney albums, Wild Life, and maybe Ram.
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Post by kds on Nov 17, 2021 15:09:54 GMT
This wasn't Ram or Band On The Run stuff. I'm not sure it's any worse than Ram, but it's certainly more polished and commercially oriented pop. So that may just be a matter of tastes. I actually think the songs are significantly stronger on Pipes of Peace than on Ram.
Obviously based on me placing it as somewhere near Ram territory in general, though, I strongly disagree with--or at least am curious to hear more reasoning and feelings behind-- B.E. 's contention that it's the worst overall. While I don't know exactly where I'll rate it, it's certainly better than Some Time in NYC and Rock 'n' Roll by John; probably everything exept Ringo! from Ringo; at least half of George's albums; and both self-titled McCartney albums, Wild Life, and maybe Ram. I'm not sure I'd agree with that, but I'm also not sure I'd disagree too much since I think Ram is very overrated. I think it might actually be the most overrated of any Beatles solo album.
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Post by B.E. on Nov 17, 2021 16:18:23 GMT
This might very well be my least favorite Beatles solo album to date. But I want to give it another listen before I dismiss the hell out of it. Even worse than some of those Ringo albums? Or even Sometime in NYC? I won’t say “worse” but, yes, I’d rather listen to those. (Although, it’s a very close call between Pipes of Peace and those 1970 Ringo albums. I gave Sentimental Journey a distinctly indifferent ‘5’, for instance. And I see that in this album’s future as well.)
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Post by kds on Nov 17, 2021 16:21:04 GMT
Even worse than some of those Ringo albums? Or even Sometime in NYC? I won’t say “worse” but, yes, I’d rather listen to those. (Although, it’s a very close call between Pipes of Peace and those 1970 Ringo albums. I gave Sentimental Journey a distinctly indifferent ‘5’, for instance. And I see that in this album’s future as well.) To each their own, I suppose. I was actually pleasantly surprised by Pipes of Peace. Whereas, some of those Ringo albums, along with NYC, and even Wild Life, aren't albums I'd care to ever hear again.
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