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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 17, 2021 13:04:46 GMT
The Beatles, Rubber Soul (1965)
If the story of the Beatles is greatly simplified to show their career in just two parts, the split is often made with Rubber Soul as the first album of the "later Beatles." Gone in that story are the four sharp-dressed "long haired" men in Beatle suits, and in are differently dressed, actually long-haired Beatles exploring meaningful music, psychedelia, and deep thoughts.
That is, of course, a myth. An oversimplification. I'm guilty! I actually divide the eras this way:
Part 1 (Early Period): Please Please Me, With The Beatles, A Hard Day's Night, Beatles For Sale, Help!
Part 2 (Middle Period): Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Magical Mystery Tour
Part 3 (Late Period): The Beatles (White Album), Yellow Submarine, Abbey Road, Let It Be
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 17, 2021 13:08:57 GMT
Well, see, you're not guilty then: you oversimplify into three periods, not two!
(And really these are logical things to do, creating these "periods," even if they aren't ever entirely accurate ... or better, entirely complete as description or categorization.)
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Post by jk on Feb 17, 2021 13:26:23 GMT
That first ten was me. More on RS later...
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Post by kds on Feb 17, 2021 13:28:47 GMT
Rubber Soul is an easy ten for me. Although, I really don't think there's a huge divide between the quality of Help and Rubber Soul. There's definitely some growth musically here. I think I'll post more when the coffee kicks in.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 17, 2021 14:15:36 GMT
I have posted several times on a few message boards about Rubber Soul. I have been very consistent. I'm not trying to get attention, be controversial, or troll. I do not think that Rubber Soul is a great album, and I don't think it is one of The Beatles' best albums. I think it is a good to very good album. I place it somewhere near the top of the middle tier. I will rate it an 8 which is very good.
With the previous Beatles' albums, I can easily list the "great" songs on the respective albums, and on some of those albums, there's five or six. As I scroll through the Rubber Soul tracklist, I can only come up with a couple - "Norwegian Wood", "Nowhere Man", and maybe "If I Needed Someone". I find other songs like "Drive My Car", "You Won't See Me" and "I'm Looking Through You" as good to very good.; I like them but they're not all-timers. And, I know this opinion is controversial, but I don't think John's "Girl" and "In My Life" are great songs either - nice but nothing spectacular - and I actually find them slightly boring. "Michelle"? Nice melody. "Run For Your Life? Good. "The Word" and "What Goes On"? No.
So where is the GREATNESS of Rubber Soul? I just don't get it. I was always surprised to read Brian Wilson's praise for this album through the years. I have listened to Rubber Soul numerous times through the years, searching for whatever I was missing. To quote Bono, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 17, 2021 14:16:16 GMT
I'm a 10 as well. I'll write about it later, but I actually want to give it a nice, fresh listen.
As a general impression, though, Rubber Soul is usually the lower end of my perfect 10s, if that makes sense. I do prefer several of the subsequent albums, but they're all in that territory where it's awfully hard to knock points, they're so superior to the vast majority of albums by anyone, ever.
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Post by kds on Feb 17, 2021 14:21:56 GMT
Just a humorous aside about Rubber Soul. Only The Beatles could get away with chanting "Tit Tit Tit Tit Tit" in a song (Girl) included on an album that's generally accepted as an essential album.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 17, 2021 14:22:10 GMT
I have posted several times on a few message boards about Rubber Soul. I have been very consistent. I'm not trying to get attention, be controversial, or troll. I do not think that Rubber Soul is a great album, and I don't think it is one of The Beatles' best albums. I think it is a good to very good album.
...
So where is the GREATNESS of Rubber Soul? I just don't get it. I was always surprised to read Brian Wilson's praise for this album through the years. I have listened to Rubber Soul numerous times through the years, searching for whatever I was missing. To quote Bono, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.
I think it's important for people to feel free to speak out like that. And frankly it becomes obvious when someone is being a troll: let's say you said the Beatles weren't any good at all, totally talentless, and gave it a zero. Or just seeing the general thrust of everyone's vote on every album, and then voting the polar opposite. That's a troll. I've seen a lot of trolls in my time. You're not a troll.
A contrary opinion, if honest, is valuable. I think it's great to ensure people realize that even where there's consensus, there is almost never perfect consensus. Different people hear, value, appreciate different things. It's fine. Good, even.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 17, 2021 14:28:49 GMT
Just a humorous aside about Rubber Soul. Only The Beatles could get away with chanting "Tit Tit Tit Tit Tit" in a song (Girl) included on an album that's generally accepted as an essential album. That totally escaped me.
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Post by kds on Feb 17, 2021 14:43:37 GMT
I have posted several times on a few message boards about Rubber Soul. I have been very consistent. I'm not trying to get attention, be controversial, or troll. I do not think that Rubber Soul is a great album, and I don't think it is one of The Beatles' best albums. I think it is a good to very good album. I place it somewhere near the top of the middle tier. I will rate it an 8 which is very good.
With the previous Beatles' albums, I can easily list the "great" songs on the respective albums, and on some of those albums, there's five or six. As I scroll through the Rubber Soul tracklist, I can only come up with a couple - "Norwegian Wood", "Nowhere Man", and maybe "If I Needed Someone". I find other songs like "Drive My Car", "You Won't See Me" and "I'm Looking Through You" as good to very good.; I like them but they're not all-timers. And, I know this opinion is controversial, but I don't think John's "Girl" and "In My Life" are great songs either - nice but nothing spectacular - and I actually find them slightly boring. "Michelle"? Nice melody. "Run For Your Life? Good. "The Word" and "What Goes On"? No.
So where is the GREATNESS of Rubber Soul? I just don't get it. I was always surprised to read Brian Wilson's praise for this album through the years. I have listened to Rubber Soul numerous times through the years, searching for whatever I was missing. To quote Bono, I still haven't found what I'm looking for.
I will agree with you on What Goes On. It's really just an OK song at best.
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Post by kds on Feb 17, 2021 14:46:02 GMT
Just a humorous aside about Rubber Soul. Only The Beatles could get away with chanting "Tit Tit Tit Tit Tit" in a song (Girl) included on an album that's generally accepted as an essential album. That totally escaped me. I never noticed it until it was pointed out by one of the Fabs (Ringo, I think) in the extensive Anthology book. Now, I can't unhear it. It was also referenced by the Dennis Wilson character in Love and Mercy.
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Post by jk on Feb 17, 2021 18:11:58 GMT
I never noticed it until it was pointed out by one of the Fabs (Ringo, I think) in the extensive Anthology book. Now, I can't unhear it. It was also referenced by the Dennis Wilson character in Love and Mercy. I've always heard it as "dit dit dit", as in so many doo wop songs, and I always will -- Ringo, Dennis and everyone else notwithstanding... As for Rubber Soul, the album: As you probably know by now, "The Word" is my absolute favourite Beatles song. There are others on RS that I have heard far too many times ("Michelle", "Girl", "Norwegian Wood"). It's ironic that the competitive album Brian claimed was of all good stuff ("they were going like crazy") was a travesty of the UK original -- what happened to "Drive My Car" and "If I Needed Someone", two tracks absolutely essential to the ethos of RS? Until recently, Revolver was my favourite Beatles album, full of promise that in my opinion failed to come to fruition on St. Pepper. Since reacquainting myself with Rubber Soul, thanks to a mono version burnt for me by a kind poster (actually a mod) at the now-defunct BB Capitol forum, I feel this is the album with all the promise and that promise did come to fruition on Revolver. A resounding ten.
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Post by kds on Feb 17, 2021 18:21:20 GMT
I never noticed it until it was pointed out by one of the Fabs (Ringo, I think) in the extensive Anthology book. Now, I can't unhear it. It was also referenced by the Dennis Wilson character in Love and Mercy. I've always heard it as "dit dit dit", as in so many doo wop songs, and I always will -- Ringo, Dennis and everyone else notwithstanding... That's what I always thought it was too.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 17, 2021 23:53:14 GMT
I'm 99.99% sure that they are singing both "dit dit dit" and "tit tit tit". They probably sung the former first, then overdubbed the latter. Or some were singing one while others were singing the other. I believe the story is true, that they were trying to sneak it past George Martin. I could be wrong, because I haven't read every page of every Beatle book, but I really sense that I hear both in the mix.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 18, 2021 0:07:07 GMT
As for Rubber Soul, the album: As you probably know by now, "The Word" is my absolute favourite Beatles song. There are others on RS that I have heard far too many times ("Michelle", "Girl", "Norwegian Wood"). It's ironic that the competitive album Brian claimed was of all good stuff ("they were going like crazy") was a travesty of the UK original -- what happened to "Drive My Car" and "If I Needed Someone", two tracks absolutely essential to the ethos of RS? Until recently, Revolver was my favourite Beatles album, full of promise that in my opinion failed to come to fruition on St. Pepper. Since reacquainting myself with Rubber Soul, thanks to a mono version burnt for me by a kind poster (actually a mod) at the now-defunct BB Capitol forum, I feel this is the album with all the promise and that promise did come to fruition on Revolver. A resounding ten. Firstly, I just want to say that your ratings have been a great source of comfort. I've been forcing myself to round down to 8s and 9s, so when I see your 10s it greatly eases my soul! Oddly, "Drive My Car" has always felt a little out of place for me on Rubber Soul (and I'm very loyal to the UK tracklistings!). I like it, don't get me wrong, and it is a decent opener with some needed energy, but I guess I'm just not a huge fan of the song...lyrically. I really enjoy John's harmony, though. Anyway, it's not just "Drive My Car" and "If I Needed Someone" (of which I completely agree with you on), but "What Goes On" and "Nowhere Man" that's missing from the US version. "Nowhere Man" in particular is a massive omission.
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