My brother raised a question/topic that I have to admit never occurred to me. Everybody knows about the Roth-to-Hagar drama, and how after the Gary Cherone interlude, that drama recontinued.
But putting aside the generally poorly considered Cherone album Van Halen III, what was the live band like? I had no idea. My brother asked specifically how Cherone must have sounded on the more vocally demanding Hagar material. Again, no idea.
I did see this tonight. And there are only two Hagar-era songs, "Why Can't This Be Love" and "Right Now." The former actually has both Michael Anthony and Eddie Van Halen taking verses. Interesting.
In 98, MTV played an hour (probably 40 mins with ads) of a Cherone lead show. I thought it was a good mix of all three eras. Obviously, I could live with less of the VH3 songs.
That tour was supposed to be my 1st concert, but the friend I trusted to buy tickets said it sold out. I later found that was far from the truth.
A couple days ago marked the 25th anniversary of the release of the first single from the Gary Cherone lead Van Halen - Without You.
This article is a remainder that there actually was some optimism about the new version of the band, and plenty of hyperbole from Eddie about the singer who'd be out of a job in just under a year. I remember I was pretty excited when I first heard it. And, I still think it's a decent song.
I remember being pretty excited when the album was announced, though I'm trying now to remember the timeline. I know they did that awards show (VMAs?) appearance with Roth shortly after Hagar left, I think coinciding with a greatest hits album. But I can't recall how much advance press there was about Cherone joining, or how long that lasted. I do remember seeing the video for the first time and not loving it ... but not hating it.
It was disappointing because I'd been a huge Van Halen fan for literally almost as long as I could remember: 1984 was absolutely gigantic on MTV and other video shows, and all over radio, so I was 7-8 years old and hearing them all over (as well as being exposed to some earlier stuff). Then the breakup, Dave's solo work, Hagar joining (and those massive albums)...I mean, they were the group for me, the same way U2 might have been to a different crowd in a similar time frame.
And Extreme came along later, of course, but when I was really getting into music in a more serious way. I was on board from the debut album, having seen the video for "Kid Ego" and hearing "Flight of the Wounded Bumblebee" and "Play With Me" somewhere or other before buying the tape. Loved them.
So it seemed like a really promising match to me. Alas, the album just didn't work. I think part of that is their styles, and part of it is just the timing of it all. I'm not sure EVH knew what he wanted, and I'm pretty sure the industry and the public all had other ideas, anyway. It just wasn't clear what the balance of things would be commercially, artistically, etc. That's my sense anyway.
I think the MTV appearance with Roth happened at the 1996 VMAs, which was probably in September, and they were about to release Greatest Hits Vol 1 - which included two new songs with Dave.
If Wikipedia is true, then it was announced in Nov 1996 that Cherone would be VH's third lead singer. That feels about right because I do remember there was some build up between the announcement and the album.
I also don't think Eddie would've admitted it, but I feel like Van Halen were another late 70s / 80s hard rock band that got sucked into the 90s mud. It seemed like they tried to go darker on Balance and continued that path on VH3. I honestly think had Eddie, Alex, Gary, and Mike been able to do a follow up, they could've turned in one of those 2000s era return to form albums that we saw from the likes of Scorpions or Iron Maiden.
Speaking of things I doubt Eddie would have admitted (to himself or anyone else), even if he were at the top of his game at the time--which I do not think he was--Van Halen was always a more collaborative band than he probably wanted to admit. Roth brought a showbiz flair and lyrics; Hagar brought a strong voice and songwriting chops. They weren't just singers, they were co-leaders, really. Second fiddles, maybe, but still key.
Cherone was being hired to help with lyrics and to sing, but I don't think anyone considered him an equal member ... and I don't think he had the personal charisma or chops to really stand toe-to-toe with EVH. He wasn't in the same league. I do think he could have gotten on stage with them and sang the hell out of those classic tunes. He brought a younger energy. And yeah, he could write rock lyrics. But I just can't imagine him as being on that level, as a relative equal. To me, it would be like if Led Zeppelin hired Steve Whiteman to replace Robert Plant.
And Eddie, at least in the latter '90s, wasn't in any condition to be the band (just as he seemingly tried to be more and more of it himself).
Speaking of things I doubt Eddie would have admitted (to himself or anyone else), even if he were at the top of his game at the time--which I do not think he was--Van Halen was always a more collaborative band than he probably wanted to admit. Roth brought a showbiz flair and lyrics; Hagar brought a strong voice and songwriting chops. They weren't just singers, they were co-leaders, really. Second fiddles, maybe, but still key.
Cherone was being hired to help with lyrics and to sing, but I don't think anyone considered him an equal member ... and I don't think he had the personal charisma or chops to really stand toe-to-toe with EVH. He wasn't in the same league. I do think he could have gotten on stage with them and sang the hell out of those classic tunes. He brought a younger energy. And yeah, he could write rock lyrics. But I just can't imagine him as being on that level, as a relative equal. To me, it would be like if Led Zeppelin hired Steve Whiteman to replace Robert Plant.
And Eddie, at least in the latter '90s, wasn't in any condition to be the band (just as he seemingly tried to be more and more of it himself).
Nice pull with Steve Whiteman.
I think that's an issue in general when you bring in a younger singer to an established band. When Hagar joined, Van Halen hadn't really been around all that long in the grand scheme of things, and Hagar had actually been in the business longer.
Fast forward to 1998, VH had been around 20 years, Cherone was only 27 at the time, joining a legendary band. Arnel Pineda, whose been in Journey now longer than Steve Perry was, has voiced his frustration with not being considered a "full member."
I don't think Cherone ever would've been on the same level of Roth or Hagar, but I think, given the opportunity, he could've at least been able to have a working relationship similar to a Pineda.
I agree, and being a Pineda is certainly a great gig for somebody to get. And fun for fans. But to me, that does change what the band is. It's not so much a top-level, living band anymore at that point. It's like KISS going from the originals to having hired employees as "members." It's just different at that point. And I think EVH wanted Van Halen to be a living, breathing, top-level rock band ... he just didn't know how to do it at that point, and probably didn't want to share control at that point.
I agree, and being a Pineda is certainly a great gig for somebody to get. And fun for fans. But to me, that does change what the band is. It's not so much a top-level, living band anymore at that point. It's like KISS going from the originals to having hired employees as "members." It's just different at that point. And I think EVH wanted Van Halen to be a living, breathing, top-level rock band ... he just didn't know how to do it at that point, and probably didn't want to share control at that point.
I thought you might like the Whiteman example!
That must be why Eddie decided to close up shop for a while then try to solider on with Gary, or even a fourth vocalist.
Michael Anthony has hinted that we may start seeing archival VH releases soon. And, it'll start with the Hagar era (I'm sure that won't be controversial).
Kapitan: An important Goffin/King tune performed by an influential girl-group is the latest in our Hot 100 #1s thread.
Mar 25, 2024 14:41:49 GMT
Kapitan: A little "champagne style" music for the latest #1 on the Hot 100 thread.
Apr 2, 2024 17:33:08 GMT
Sheriff John Stone: ...and there's a connection between the conductor of that "champagne music" and a Beach Boys' family member.
Apr 2, 2024 18:16:47 GMT
jk: Oh yes, now you mention it, Sheriff. An older family member, right?
Apr 2, 2024 19:47:08 GMT
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Sheriff John Stone: Maybe we could incorporate Kapitan's (and my) post from the New Articles, Interviews, Etc. thread and The Cincinnati Kid's post from The Photo Thread into the Brian's Conservatorship and Dementia Diagnosis thread so we can better track/follow that journey.
Apr 9, 2024 11:51:30 GMT
The Cincinnati Kid: I'd rather not have every time Brian is seen out (which may not be much) presented under the guise of him having dementia. If something relevant to his conservatorship or dementia is published, it can be put there.
Apr 10, 2024 1:18:15 GMT
Sheriff John Stone: Since I/you/we're going to publish articles/photos/etc. of the current Brian anyway, I thought it would more...economical...to put it all in the same thread. It is in no way meant to "expose" Brian or his condition. Actually, I praised the recent article/
Apr 10, 2024 11:02:11 GMT
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Sheriff John Stone: event. I don't find posting about it or discussing it offensive or insensitive. We could remove the word "dementia" from the thread title. No problem, though.
Apr 10, 2024 11:06:58 GMT
Kapitan: A new #1 from a familiar face in the Hot 100 thread.
Apr 10, 2024 15:40:39 GMT
Kapitan: A new Hot 100 #1: another European, pre-rock standard repurposed for American pop audiences.
Apr 15, 2024 18:56:58 GMT
Kapitan: A new Hot 100 #1, a 25-year-old standard repurposed into a doo-wop hit.
Apr 29, 2024 15:54:44 GMT
Kapitan: A new Hot 100 #1, a classic song we've already discussed (in two versions, actually) this year in another context on the board.
May 6, 2024 19:25:01 GMT
lonelysummer: okay, i got the book...THE BOOK...where is our thread about it?
May 10, 2024 19:41:55 GMT
lonelysummer: thanks Emdeeh.
May 10, 2024 21:34:50 GMT
lonelysummer: I can't say or write the name Emdeeh without hearing in my head "this is Emdeeh's first low budget production!"
May 10, 2024 21:35:20 GMT