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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 10, 2020 12:51:53 GMT
Brian Wilson recently made two live appearances. One was on the Stephen Colbert TV show where he performed "God Only Knows" at the piano, and the other was Brian singing "Happy Birthday" to his friend, Nancy Sinatra, on her 80th birthday, again at the piano. I was especially surprised to see Brian on the Colbert show because he had no reason for being there (i.e. promoting an album, tour, movie, or book). I was even more surprised to see Brian performing solo at the piano on national TV, even though he did the same thing recently on a Rolling Stone-sponsored In My Room episode.
The feedback that I read - mostly from Beach Boys/BW fans - from all three of the above mentioned performances has been overwhelmingly positive. Fans appear happy to see Brian singing and accompanying himself on the piano. I have read some fans suggesting that Brian record an entire solo album with just himself performing songs at the piano. Some are happy to see Brian off the road, safe at home, and seemingly healthy. Still others are happy to see Brian approaching 80 years of age and still "doing it", maybe just happy that he's still with us. I mean, let's be honest, he's defeating the odds in a lot of ways.
I am experiencing many of the same feelings, not all, but many. How can you not be touched to see Brian singing and playing music, at age 78, in the comforts of a safe and secure home. I'm not totally convinced any of these recent performances (other than the Nancy Sinatra salute) were his idea or that he was especially happy to be doing them, but that's for another day. I am, however, experiencing other feelings, some melancholy ones, which keeps bringing me back to the question proposed in this thread.
Over the last few decades, we've seen Brian tour, make TV appearances, do interviews, and do several promotions during his solo career. We've SEEN Brian.
I've seen Brian. A lot. Then why do I find these recent performances so jarring? It's not like I just woke up from a decades-long nap and Brian Wilson was 78 years old. But he is and it's hitting me hard for some reason. It's not easy seeing our heroes growing old. I don't think I've taken Brian and his career - with The Beach Boys and solo - for granted. I knew it could end at any moment. As I mentioned above, he wasn't supposed to be doing some of the things he was doing with his solo career. He wasn't even supposed to be alive!
For some reason, many of these feelings are leading me back to 1975. That was pivotal time in Brian Wilson's life; a life and/or death time. As incredible as Brian's life and career was up to that time, the years from 1975-2020 were just as or more incredible. From almost lethal addiction to Dr. Landy to Stan & Rocky to Dr. Landy again to Melinda to where he is today...so fascinating. How did he get there? How were those choices made? How did he make it through? How did he do what he ended up doing? Things turned out better than many expected but could've things been even better, both personally and musically?
And, finally, that brings me to the question of the thread. What if Brian Wilson, in 1975, got "hooked up" with the right doctor, the right medication, and the right environment? Do you think Brian could've been...saved...even more? By that I mean could've he remained more of the person he was prior to 1975? Some people close to Brian felt that he never really changed much personally. If Brian had gone into full, legitimate rehabilitation, would've he reached greater musical heights from 1975-2020? Or, do you think that, by 1975, too much damage was done, nothing was going to "turn Brian around", and we/he were destined to get what we/he got? Now, I realize that for any rehabilitation to be truly effective, Brian would've had to buy into it, not forced into it like the Landy program. I have to think there were some willing and competent doctors and rehab facilities in California who could've treated Brian. Yes, Brian would have to agree to, first, agree to the treatment, and second, be fully committed to it. Easier said than done, I guess.
But what if Brian would've agreed to and participated in legitimate therapy and rehab? Would've things been different or was it already to late? Thoughts?
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Post by kds on Jun 10, 2020 13:00:50 GMT
From what I've read about Brian Wilson, I really don't think that he'd have willingly agreed to legit therapy. And while the guy was a total creep, Landy had achieved results before, and probably did legitimately save Brian from an early grave.
I think one of the mistakes that was made around this time was shoving him back into the spotlight way too soon with putting him back on tour with The Beach Boys have having him produce two albums with mixed results.
Had they gotten him on proper medication, I do wonder if the musical output would've been different. To me, the music that he wrote under Landy is far inferior overall to what he did before, or later (even if the credit to much of that material might belong more to Thomas or Bennett).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 10, 2020 13:31:44 GMT
Had they gotten him on proper medication, I do wonder if the musical output would've been different. To me, the music that he wrote under Landy is far inferior overall to what he did before, or later (even if the credit to much of that material might belong more to Thomas or Bennett). I wonder about that (if his musical output would've been different) all the time. Brian was only 33 years old in 1975. On the other hand, Brian has mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in interviews that he wrote some of his best and most creative under the influence of drugs. So, maybe if he did clean up, the music would've been affected by that condition, too. I wish we would've found out.
I know it's an old debate, but I disagree that the music Brian wrote under Landy is far inferior to what he did before. I think to a large extent, The Beach Boys Love You, and to a lesser extent, Sweet Insanity, is some of the strongest music that Brian wrote post-1975.
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Post by kds on Jun 10, 2020 13:41:35 GMT
Had they gotten him on proper medication, I do wonder if the musical output would've been different. To me, the music that he wrote under Landy is far inferior overall to what he did before, or later (even if the credit to much of that material might belong more to Thomas or Bennett). I wonder about that (if his musical output would've been different) all the time. Brian was only 33 years old in 1975. On the other hand, Brian has mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in interviews that he wrote some of his best and most creative under the influence of drugs. So, maybe if he did clean up, the music would've been affected by that condition, too. I wish we would've found out.
I know it's an old debate, but I disagree that the music Brian wrote under Landy is far inferior to what he did before. I think to a large extent, The Beach Boys Love You, and to a lesser extent, Sweet Insanity, is some of the strongest music that Brian wrote post-1975.
To be honest, much of my favorite Brian Wilson music post 1975 is from 1998 onward. I think the material on Imagination, the originals on the Christmas album, TLOS, TWGMTR, and most of NPP is very strong, and I much prefer that to Brian's output from the mid 70s and 1980s.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Jun 10, 2020 13:53:50 GMT
Had they gotten him on proper medication, I do wonder if the musical output would've been different. To me, the music that he wrote under Landy is far inferior overall to what he did before, or later (even if the credit to much of that material might belong more to Thomas or Bennett). I wonder about that (if his musical output would've been different) all the time. Brian was only 33 years old in 1975. On the other hand, Brian has mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in interviews that he wrote some of his best and most creative under the influence of drugs. So, maybe if he did clean up, the music would've been affected by that condition, too. I wish we would've found out.
I know it's an old debate, but I disagree that the music Brian wrote under Landy is far inferior to what he did before. I think to a large extent, The Beach Boys Love You, and to a lesser extent, Sweet Insanity, is some of the strongest music that Brian wrote post-1975.
He might have been on drugs when he created what he believes to be his best music, but does that mean it was because of the drugs? I don't think so. He created some of his best music before drugs, and he created some wonderful music after drugs. I think the drugs were incidental, and not the reason. But it does seem to be a very common belief that drugs somehow unlock creativity. I just don't think that's fair to the creator themselves. They aren't a medium, they deserve the credit for their work, not the drugs.
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Post by kds on Jun 10, 2020 14:01:48 GMT
I wonder about that (if his musical output would've been different) all the time. Brian was only 33 years old in 1975. On the other hand, Brian has mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in interviews that he wrote some of his best and most creative under the influence of drugs. So, maybe if he did clean up, the music would've been affected by that condition, too. I wish we would've found out.
I know it's an old debate, but I disagree that the music Brian wrote under Landy is far inferior to what he did before. I think to a large extent, The Beach Boys Love You, and to a lesser extent, Sweet Insanity, is some of the strongest music that Brian wrote post-1975.
He might have been on drugs when he created what he believes to be his best music, but does that mean it was because of the drugs? I don't think so. He created some of his best music before drugs, and he created some wonderful music after drugs. I think the drugs were incidental, and not the reason. But it does seem to be a very common belief that drugs somehow unlock creativity. I just don't think that's fair to the creator themselves. They aren't a medium, they deserve the credit for their work, not the drugs. I should add that to the thread I started of things music fans say too much "(Insert Artist Here) was at their best when they were on (insert vice here)." I think it's more to do with the fact that artists by and large write their best, and most beloved, material in their younger years when they're a little more prone to the temptations.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 10, 2020 14:04:00 GMT
I wonder about that (if his musical output would've been different) all the time. Brian was only 33 years old in 1975. On the other hand, Brian has mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in interviews that he wrote some of his best and most creative under the influence of drugs. So, maybe if he did clean up, the music would've been affected by that condition, too. I wish we would've found out.
I know it's an old debate, but I disagree that the music Brian wrote under Landy is far inferior to what he did before. I think to a large extent, The Beach Boys Love You, and to a lesser extent, Sweet Insanity, is some of the strongest music that Brian wrote post-1975.
He might have been on drugs when he created what he believes to be his best music, but does that mean it was because of the drugs? I don't think so. He created some of his best music before drugs, and he created some wonderful music after drugs. I think the drugs were incidental, and not the reason. But it does seem to be a very common belief that drugs somehow unlock creativity. I just don't think that's fair to the creator themselves. They aren't a medium, they deserve the credit for their work, not the drugs. Brian and the interviewer addresses some of your points:
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Jun 10, 2020 14:13:10 GMT
He might have been on drugs when he created what he believes to be his best music, but does that mean it was because of the drugs? I don't think so. He created some of his best music before drugs, and he created some wonderful music after drugs. I think the drugs were incidental, and not the reason. But it does seem to be a very common belief that drugs somehow unlock creativity. I just don't think that's fair to the creator themselves. They aren't a medium, they deserve the credit for their work, not the drugs. Brian and the interviewer addresses some of your points:
Oh yeah, I’m familiar with that interview. I know that Brian believes that God works through him, and that he’s a vessel for the music that flows through him (EDIT: and that marijuana helped him write Pet Sounds). He’s a very spiritual person and to him that seems to be how he is able to process his gifts. I just disagree with him! I agree with KDS that an artist's best work comes from their youth, ambition, and the creativity that comes from the cross-pollination of those things - being able to see things from a new perspective, because you're still new to the world.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 10, 2020 14:47:55 GMT
OK, so IF Brian would've gotten the necessary and appropriate treatment and rehabilitation in 1975, would've/could've he returned to those days of youth, ambition, and creativity? That was 45 years ago. Brian was only 33. That's the basic question of the thread that I'm putting out there? And, if your answer is "yes" - or even "no" - to what extent?
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Jun 10, 2020 14:58:47 GMT
OK, so IF Brian would've gotten the necessary and appropriate treatment and rehabilitation in 1975, would've/could've he returned to those days of youth, ambition, and creativity? That was 45 years ago. Brian was only 33. That's the basic question of the thread that I'm putting out there? And, if your answer is "yes" - or even "no" - to what extent? Sorry, Sheriff, there was more I wanted to say, and I did mean to come back to your main point, but I had to do a work thing for a bit 😊 As to the idea of his assertion that pot helped Brian write Pet Sounds, he seems uncomfortable accepting the accolades. He believes, or at least he wants people to believe that he believes, that he couldn’t have done it without drugs. Perhaps the pot eased his anxiety and helped him get out of his own way, but it didn’t unlock something in him that doesn’t belong to him. In an attempt to respond to your main point, if instead of being focused on his own self-destruction, Brian was open to receiving real, appropriate, medical help in 1975, if he embraced it and made his health a priority, I definitely think he could have gotten back on track creatively. Would he achieve anything close to what he did in the 60s? No, that was lightning in a bottle, a product of his youth and ambition. I don’t think he would be able to recapture that exact thing. But he would be able to continue growing as an artist and creating work that was reflective of his age and experience at that time, and in some ways that IS just as good.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on Jun 10, 2020 16:05:44 GMT
OK, so IF Brian would've gotten the necessary and appropriate treatment and rehabilitation in 1975, would've/could've he returned to those days of youth, ambition, and creativity? That was 45 years ago. Brian was only 33. That's the basic question of the thread that I'm putting out there? And, if your answer is "yes" - or even "no" - to what extent? Sorry, Sheriff, there was more I wanted to say, and I did mean to come back to your main point, but I had to do a work thing for a bit 😊 As to the idea of his assertion that pot helped Brian write Pet Sounds, he seems uncomfortable accepting the accolades. He believes, or at least he wants people to believe that he believes, that he couldn’t have done it without drugs. Perhaps the pot eased his anxiety and helped him get out of his own way, but it didn’t unlock something in him that doesn’t belong to him. In an attempt to respond to your main point, if instead of being focused on his own self-destruction, Brian was open to receiving real, appropriate, medical help in 1975, if he embraced it and made his health a priority, I definitely think he could have gotten back on track creatively. Would he achieve anything close to what he did in the 60s? No, that was lightning in a bottle, a product of his youth and ambition. I don’t think he would be able to recapture that exact thing. But he would be able to continue growing as an artist and creating work that was reflective of his age and experience at that time, and in some ways that IS just as good.
Apologies, I’m evidently having a weird brain day (as if that’s unusual, lol). I started to take issue with this statement from my own post and started thinking about it, but now I want to explain what I mean. The bolded text above assumes that Brian didn’t continue to grow as an artist, despite the fact that he did continue creating. That seems like an odd statement, but the more I think about it the more I agree with myself (derrrr) and I think that’s mostly true. His growth was stunted. He continued to create, sometimes because he wanted to, but often because he was forced or obligated to. But had he gotten the help he needed in 1975, I think the interruption to his creative life would have been minimal, and he would have been able to resume his artistic growth and his trajectory would have been altered to some degree where he may have allowed himself to change and innovate with the times and technology instead of getting stuck in his old groove. I just don’t think that means he would ever be on the same level as he was at his peak in the 60s.
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Post by kds on Jun 10, 2020 16:12:18 GMT
OK, so IF Brian would've gotten the necessary and appropriate treatment and rehabilitation in 1975, would've/could've he returned to those days of youth, ambition, and creativity? That was 45 years ago. Brian was only 33. That's the basic question of the thread that I'm putting out there? And, if your answer is "yes" - or even "no" - to what extent? Even at 33, I think that would've been a tough order. There was a certain magic on the 1963-66 Beach Boys recordings. As much as I enjoy the 1967-73 era, I don't think that same magic is quite there (at least not as consistently).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 10, 2020 16:59:29 GMT
When I listen to parts of 15 Big Ones, all of Love You, and some selected cuts from the M.I.U. sessions, I feel that Brian wasn't too far off - composing-wise - from the 1968-1972 period. There were some very good songs written by Brian in 1976 and 1977. But, there's something missing or something not quite right, too. It's hard to describe, but I get a sense that Brian was not entirely in touch with reality, or he didn't realize how, and I don't know how else to say it...bad...some of his choices or decisions were which are reflected in the final product. I don't know if the proper therapy and medication could've improved that area, the decision-making area(s), or if it was lost for good.
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Post by kds on Jun 10, 2020 18:28:01 GMT
When I listen to parts of 15 Big Ones, all of Love You, and some selected cuts from the M.I.U. sessions, I feel that Brian wasn't too far off - composing-wise - from the 1968-1972 period. There were some very good songs written by Brian in 1976 and 1977. But, there's something missing or something not quite right, too. It's hard to describe, but I get a sense that Brian was not entirely in touch with reality, or he didn't realize how, and I don't know how else to say it...bad...some of his choices or decisions were which are reflected in the final product. I don't know if the proper therapy and medication could've improved that area, the decision-making area(s), or if it was lost for good. Yeah, I can hear a little bit of the Friends album and stuff like Funky Pretty as a progression towards what Brian did from 1976-78. I don't know enough about how much Brian's physical state was negatively impacted by drug use. I remember hearing about Syd Barrett who apparently did so much acid that it permanently damaged his brain. I don't think Brian was to that extreme, but between the recreation drugs he took, and the prescription drugs, there could have very well been irreparable damage.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 11, 2020 19:55:17 GMT
I'll give credit to Landy for at least one thing on the second time around - he and the group didn't try to rush Brian into the studio, and expect miracles like it was 1965 all over again. And they also recognized he was not going to be able to do it all by himself - the years between Landy's exit and his return saw Brian become even more damaged by the drug abuse, among other things.
I believe that by 1975, that old young Brian was gone.
but instead of mourning that, I am thankful he was able to get back to making some great music in the 80's and 90's. I came to love his new lower voice.
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