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Post by Kapitan on Oct 9, 2021 11:54:27 GMT
I prefer the sax solo over the flute solo, even though it has a bit of that 1980s gimmicky sound to it. It's very Beach Boys-y. It's funny, because I think of that as one cliche of its times replacing another. For me, that trade-off is a wash. I don't love either, but neither is such a big deal as to ruin the song.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 9, 2021 12:12:21 GMT
I like 'em both, but I'll give the slight edge to The Mamas & The Papas' version. Me too.
Not that there's anything wrong with The Beach Boys' arrangement and vocals - there isn't - but I think I like the dreamy, more acoustic, folksy approach of John, Denny, Michelle, and Cass a little more. There's something very bluesy in the lead vocal of the M&Ps version, especially in the "Stopped into a church..." part. Carl does something a little different there, not inferior but different. There's also something to be said about the mix of male and female vocals.
Since you brought up these two particular versions, there's something about each of them that always bothered me. First, with The Mamas & The Papas version, it's hard to find a nice, clear version of the song. I've noticed that too. I think there is some story behind that, in that there may not be a first generation master for that track. BTW, are you aware of the ghost vocal in one of the channels of the stereo mix? You can hear it faintly in headphones. That was the original lead vocal by Barry McGuire. There's a whole story behind that.
With The Beach Boys version, I always wondered why they repeated the line, "I'd be safe and warm, if I was in L.A." instead of, the second time around, "If I didn't tell her, I could leave today". I've never heard/read it addressed. Hmmm, never noticed that. Good question.
So, I've pretty much stated what gives the M&Ps version the slight edge, in spite of some technical issues. Here's what makes the Beach Boys version special to me: Right off, Roger McGuinn's 12-string guitar elevates this version into the stratosphere. I love that sound throughout, right down to the final fade where it dissolves into a wash of reverb. Gorgeous! I like that signature Beach Boys vocal "ooh-ooh-ooh" just before that last chorus repeat and fade. I prefer the sax solo over the flute solo, even though it has a bit of that 1980s gimmicky sound to it. It's very Beach Boys-y. You wonder how Terry Melcher could do such a great job producing "California Dreamin'" and "Kokomo", and then "lay an egg" on Summer In Paradise. It's almost like a setup! He won their confidence and then, when given a whole album, disappointed.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 9, 2021 13:38:43 GMT
On "I Was Made To Love Her"... Stevie is obviously the better vocalist, although Carl puts in a pretty good (although straining) effort. Glad you said that, because as GREAT a singer as Carl obviously was, and while someone might prefer this or that one doing that or this material, Stevie ... Stevie is unbelievably good. I came here to say much of the same. But, before I do, I want to make it clear that I love Wild Honey (one of my absolute favorite Beach Boys albums) and I'd probably give "I Was Made To Love Her" an 8.5-9. Also, in this matchup, I think I'm still going to give the nod to the Beach Boys, but purely on fandom. (I'm just that much bigger of a Beach Boys fan than a Stevie Wonder fan.) That said, this is Exhibit A of Carl being overrated among a large portion of diehard fans. Same song, same year, and a clearly superior performance from Stevie (and a truly GREAT one). Also, one recording sounds like a classic/smash hit and one sounds like a talented garage band's home recording (i.e. amateurs - though, again, very talented, and I happen to love the vibe they achieved). While I'm still not thrilled with the snare sound, I think the mono version of Stevie's serves the song much better. And, these days, I prefer the extended Sunshine Tomorrow version for the Boys.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 9, 2021 14:18:12 GMT
I think I like the dreamy, more acoustic, folksy approach of John, Denny, Michelle, and Cass a little more. The slight deal killer on the Beach Boys version are the typical 80s gated drums and the over-verbed vocals giving you that arena sound as opposed to the more intimate sounding M&Ps version. For this reason, I ever so slightly prefer the M&Ps version. It pretty much comes down to these reasons for me (along with the 80s sax, particularly when it comes back in). Although, I should say, it isn't all that close for me (even if the Beach Boys version is one the best things they did in the 80s). The original just benefits so much from that timeless quality it as. And, I agree with sockit, there's something about the mixing of male and female vocalists that works really well here.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 9, 2021 14:19:53 GMT
BTW, the group America released a cover of California Dreamin', but I haven't heard it in quite awhile and I don't recall anything notable about it (although America is one of my favorites). You don't hear much about that version. Hey, a fellow America fan! To be honest, I don't think their version is very good...it's OK...but not nearly as good as the original or the Beach Boys version, IMO. Actually, I'm a pretty big fan of Al's version with Glen Campbell.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 9, 2021 14:27:13 GMT
Since you brought up these two particular versions, there's something about each of them that always bothered me. First, with The Mamas & The Papas version, it's hard to find a nice, clear version of the song. I've noticed that too. I think there is some story behind that, in that there may not be a first generation master for that track. BTW, are you aware of the ghost vocal in one of the channels of the stereo mix? You can hear it faintly in headphones. That was the original lead vocal by Barry McGuire. There's a whole story behind that. SJS, I've noticed that, too. And I've noticed the most popular version of the song on YouTube is the TV appearance with the stereo mix. It's got 293M views. It's the one I see YouTube channels reacting to. I really think that's too bad, because the mono version is so much better. Though, now that I listen to it again, I do hear a lower register male vocal in the left channel right off the bat, is that Barry McGuire?
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sockit
The Surfer Moon
Posts: 234
Likes: 181
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Post by sockit on Oct 9, 2021 17:15:50 GMT
The original cut with M&Ps merely as backups. This one definitely doesn't work for me. Notice the harmonica solo instead of the flute.
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Post by carllove on Oct 9, 2021 18:16:40 GMT
On "I Was Made To Love Her"... Glad you said that, because as GREAT a singer as Carl obviously was, and while someone might prefer this or that one doing that or this material, Stevie ... Stevie is unbelievably good. I came here to say much of the same. But, before I do, I want to make it clear that I love Wild Honey (one of my absolute favorite Beach Boys albums) and I'd probably give "I Was Made To Love Her" an 8.5-9. Also, in this matchup, I think I'm still going to give the nod to the Beach Boys, but purely on fandom. (I'm just that much bigger of a Beach Boys fan than a Stevie Wonder fan.) That said, this is Exhibit A of Carl being overrated among a large portion of diehard fans. Same song, same year, and a clearly superior performance from Stevie (and a truly GREAT one). Also, one recording sounds like a classic/smash hit and one sounds like a talented garage band's home recording (i.e. amateurs - though, again, very talented, and I happen to love the vibe they achieved). While I'm still not thrilled with the snare sound, I think the mono version of Stevie's serves the song much better. And, these days, I prefer the extended Sunshine Tomorrow version for the boys. That Sunshine Tomorrow/Rarities version of “I Was Made To Love Her”, is one of my favorite Beach Boys tracks ever! Hearing it was a revelation. Yeah - Stevie may be the better singer for that song - but dang - I can listen to that Beach Boys version all day! Just something about it that makes me happy. Funny, because I can’t stand Carl’s vocal on “Wild Honey” (After hearing Blondie sing it - I was like - “much better”), but I adore Carl’s vocal here.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 9, 2021 20:05:21 GMT
The original cut with M&Ps merely as backups. This one definitely doesn't work for me. Notice the harmonica solo instead of the flute. Never heard that before. I do not like his voice at all.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 12, 2021 16:50:25 GMT
Have we done this one? It's kind of obvious to a certain sort of fan, but on this board perhaps only jk would be such a fan. (I ought to go through the thread, but I'm not. I beg forgiveness if it's a repeat.)
Vega-Tables v. Call Any Vegetable
In 1966-67, vegetables must have been a "thing" around L.A.: Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks wrote the song we all know (but don't all love ... though I do), while Frank Zappa wrote "Call Any Vegetable" for his Mothers of Invention. The former was released in '67 on Smiley Smile and later on various Smile things, while the latter was on MOI's Absolutely Free.
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Post by jk on Oct 12, 2021 17:49:13 GMT
Have we done this one? It's kind of obvious to a certain sort of fan, but on this board perhaps only jk would be such a fan. (I ought to go through the thread, but I'm not. I beg forgiveness if it's a repeat.)
Vega-Tables v. Call Any Vegetable Not to my knowledge, Cap'n. Back in '67 I bought both Absolutely Free and Smiley Smile within months of each other. I liked side one of AF (the one with "CAV" on it) straight off but it took sheltered prudish me a little while to get used to the material on side two!! SS on the other hand took me months to warm to. When I eventually did, I recall trudging up the snow-clad hill to the mouse farm in the winter of '67 with (indeed!) "Vegetables" playing in my head. I must confess I prefer the SS veggies to the SMiLE ones, maybe because I regard the first as a song in its own right and the second as part of an indivisible whole. Cap'n, if we're talking "Call Any Vegetable", are we allowed to tack on "Invocation & Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin" and "Soft-Sell Conclusion"? The first without the other two doesn't make too much sense to me... After all this rambling, which do I prefer? I think the MOI/Zappa sequence, although the SS song has an intimacy the other lacks. ("Zappa" and "intimacy" definitely do not sit well in the same sentence.)
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 12, 2021 17:55:01 GMT
Cap'n, if we're talking "Call Any Vegetable", are we allowed to tack on "Invocation & Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin" and "Soft-Sell Conclusion"? The first without the other two doesn't make too much sense to me... As old Alastair Crowley would say, "do what thou wilt." (But I don't recommend doing what Crowley wilt ... or rather, whatever the proper conjugation of "wilt" is. Not wilted, though it's funny. Would've, I boringly suppose.)
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Post by kds on Oct 12, 2021 17:58:51 GMT
Well, you did it. I'm picking probably my least favorite non talk track Beach Boys song from the 1960s - Vega-Tables (or any version there of).
Yeah, I'll admit it, I don't get Zappa. Not even a little. This track is no exception.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 12, 2021 19:14:23 GMT
Zappa being Zappa, there are many versions of "Call Any Vegetable" from which to choose, too. Here is one from 1971, live from UCLA's Pauley Pavilion. This was released on the album Just Another Band From LA, and the (small for him) band features Flo & Eddie (formerly of the Turtles) on vocals, Aynsley Dunbar on drums, Don Preston on keyboards, Ian Underwood on keyboards and woodwinds, Jim Pons on bass, and FZ on guitar and vocals.
It's heavier, smoother, and I'd say slicker. Both more rock and more jazz. Though still absurd. But if the other one was a bunch of smartasses making fun of you by doing a school play badly on purpose, this is more a high-production value satire.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 13, 2021 13:22:15 GMT
As much of a Zappa fan as I am--unlike kds, who says he just never got FZ (which is something I relate to with plenty of other acclaimed artists), I almost immediately connected to him, with the combination of sophistication, blunt stupidity, often unfunny but generally provocative humor, and all the rest of it making sense to me from the get-go--my vote goes to the Beach Boys.
I know a lot of people don't like "Vega-Tables," but I always have and still do. Speaking of humor, I think this is one of their funniest songs. And I like its melody, its vocal-exercise harmonies. Pretty much everything about it.
But "Call Any Vegetable" has its charms, whether the cool sixteenth-note riff; the absurd, spliced-in spoken bits; or the cringe-worthy "rutabaga" vocal solo. If you include the other components that are technically other songs, but on the original album are related (as jk was getting at in his post), we get some really interesting stuff, like Stravinsky quotes by rock band.
However, that said, it's the Beach Boys for me.
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