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Post by kds on May 26, 2020 14:58:05 GMT
Between message boards, forums, chat rooms, and social media, I've enjoyed discussing music on the internet for well over 20 years now. So, for S&Gs, I wanted to start a thread on phrases that get overused
1. "Sold Out" - This often refers to either a band having chart success or doing merch. Although, the latter seems to be far more accepted now as a means of making money since physical music sales aren't what they used to be. But, the former is still a big talking point. Unless a band made a radical change to their sound, I really don't think selling more albums / streams really constitutes selling out. But, some fans don't want their bands to change. I think I've heard this said about Metallica more than any other band.
2. "Gone pop" - You hear this one among metal fans a lot. And, it just tells me that most metal fans who say this don't know what pop music sounds like. If you listen to some fans, any semblance of melody means that a band have "gone pop."
3. "They're just a cover band" - As Beach Boys fans, we know this one pretty well. I've been seeing this about Journey, who have been carrying on without Steve Perry since 1998. However, until earlier this year, Journey had been touring with 4/5 of the lineup that released Escape and Frontiers, two highly respected AOR albums. That hardly seems like a cover band to me. Especially since some of the AOR acts on tour now are doing so with one or two classic members.
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Post by B.E. on May 26, 2020 15:14:44 GMT
"Rushed" and "Contractual Obligation"
This has recently become a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Fortunately for you all, I'm not prepared to properly organize my thoughts and deliver a multiple page rant at this time, but music "fans" use these two (occasionally) related criticisms to summarily dismiss, and justify their lukewarm feelings towards, any and every album under the sun (often with little to no evidence to back it up).
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on May 26, 2020 15:40:34 GMT
When in music criticism people refer to something as derivative. So what? Almost everything is derived from something else, if you look deep enough. There are better words! If you mean unoriginal, say that. If you mean influenced by, say that.
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Post by Kapitan on May 26, 2020 15:45:51 GMT
"Beatlesque" and "Dylanesque." You hear it less--maybe because modern popular music is straying further from these cornerstones--but you used to hear constantly and still hear occasionally these terms as (I think) a pretty lazy and often questionably accurate description.
A mellotron and phased or flanged vocals, or two-part harmony and a guitar playing a sixth chord? Beatlesque!
Some guy sing-speaking incoherent words, especially over acoustic guitar or a roots-rock band? Dylanesque!
"Experimental." Anything that includes various electronic blips and bleeps, programmed beats or atmospheric sounds (for an otherwise live rock band) is so often described this way despite the things they're doing being by this point 50, 60, 70 years old. Radiohead with Kid A and Wilco with Yankee Hotel Foxtrot were described that way 20 years ago, and Dawes was described that way about two or three years ago for doing roughly the same kinds of things. Wasn't experimental 20 years ago, sure as hell wasn't experimental two years ago.
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Post by kds on May 26, 2020 16:19:40 GMT
When in music criticism people refer to something as derivative. So what? Almost everything is derived from something else, if you look deep enough. There are better words! If you mean unoriginal, say that. If you mean influenced by, say that. That reminds me of an exchange from The Office (US). "It's too derivative." "Most parody is derivative." "Yes, but it should be organic." Similar thought level on overused terms. Original. "Oh, that artist is so original."
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Post by Kapitan on May 26, 2020 16:30:07 GMT
The thread from derivative to original has reminded me of an increasingly common one that I hate: "authentic."
What does it even mean for a popular musician to be authentic? If it means performing what s/he likes, OK, fine. No major problems there (though I don't see how any of us would be privy to that information). But increasingly it is either someone basically living up (or down) to their demographic origins. I might be ripped apart for writing country music (because I'm from the north), rap (because I'm white), etc. Or when someone writes and sings about how hard life is, that's authentic, but joyful or simple party music isn't.
It's not important that music be "authentic"--and that's if it means anything in the first place.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on May 26, 2020 17:57:23 GMT
The thing about originality is that it’s overrated. Maybe authentic isn’t the right word, but when I think about what it is that makes a song, band, or album good, it isn’t so much whether or not it’s original but whether or not it’s an “authentic” take on an established concept. Like the idea of a teacher assigning their class of kids a drawing of a fairytale castle, for instance. The concept is unoriginal, but if there are 20 kids in the class you’ll get 20 different takes on that idea, realized in their own “authentic” way. It’s the same with music. There are a bajillion different takes on the “love song” and many are very much alike, while others have quality that sets them apart from others. I don’t want that word to be “authenticity” but I think that’s at least part of it. Maybe a better word is sincerity.
Back to the topic… Even though I’ve used it above (or especially because I’ve used it above) saying something is underrated or overrated is wildly overused in music.
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Post by kds on May 26, 2020 18:03:01 GMT
The thing about originality is that it’s overrated. Maybe authentic isn’t the right word, but when I think about what it is that makes a song, band, or album good, it isn’t so much whether or not it’s original but whether or not it’s an “authentic” take on an established concept. Like the idea of a teacher assigning their class of kids a drawing of a fairytale castle, for instance. The concept is unoriginal, but if there are 20 kids in the class you’ll get 20 different takes on that idea, realized in their own “authentic” way. It’s the same with music. There are a bajillion different takes on the “love song” and many are very much alike, while others have quality that sets them apart from others. I don’t want that word to be “authenticity” but I think that’s at least part of it. Maybe a better word is sincerity. Back to the topic… Even though I’ve used it above (or especially because I’ve used it above) saying something is underrated or overrated is wildly overused in music. Original, derivative, authentic, etc. I think sometimes people put far too much stock in this type of terminology, and tends to be why bands like The Sex Pistols and Nirvana are more revered than Boston or Bon Jovi. I'm definitely guilty of overusing underrated / overrated.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 727
Likes: 201
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Post by bellbottoms on May 26, 2020 18:12:04 GMT
The thing about originality is that it’s overrated. Maybe authentic isn’t the right word, but when I think about what it is that makes a song, band, or album good, it isn’t so much whether or not it’s original but whether or not it’s an “authentic” take on an established concept. Like the idea of a teacher assigning their class of kids a drawing of a fairytale castle, for instance. The concept is unoriginal, but if there are 20 kids in the class you’ll get 20 different takes on that idea, realized in their own “authentic” way. It’s the same with music. There are a bajillion different takes on the “love song” and many are very much alike, while others have quality that sets them apart from others. I don’t want that word to be “authenticity” but I think that’s at least part of it. Maybe a better word is sincerity. Back to the topic… Even though I’ve used it above (or especially because I’ve used it above) saying something is underrated or overrated is wildly overused in music. Original, derivative, authentic, etc. I think sometimes people put far too much stock in this type of terminology, and tends to be why bands like The Sex Pistols and Nirvana are more revered than Boston or Bon Jovi. I'm definitely guilty of overusing underrated / overrated. I do it too, but it's actually really unfair to call something overrated just because it's widely known or hugely popular, and underrated just because we like something or know about something that not too many other people do, lol. In terms of originality, authenticity, derivative-ness, it makes me think of that discussion of how covers used to be fine but started to be taken less seriously once bands started focusing on writing original songs. Blame the Beatles! (but not the Beach Boys, though).
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Post by kds on May 26, 2020 18:24:18 GMT
Original, derivative, authentic, etc. I think sometimes people put far too much stock in this type of terminology, and tends to be why bands like The Sex Pistols and Nirvana are more revered than Boston or Bon Jovi. I'm definitely guilty of overusing underrated / overrated. I do it too, but it's actually really unfair to call something overrated just because it's widely known or hugely popular, and underrated just because we like something or know about something that not too many other people do, lol. In terms of originality, authenticity, derivative-ness, it makes me think of that discussion of how covers used to be fine but started to be taken less seriously once bands started focusing on writing original songs. Blame the Beatles! (but not the Beach Boys, though). Although, I will never stop calling Nirvana the most overrated band in the history of rock music. I've stood by that opinion for well over 25 years now. Here's one I somehow forgot "I don't listen to music that's on the radio / That's too mainstream."
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Post by Kapitan on May 26, 2020 19:06:48 GMT
I've argued terminology about overrated and underrated forever on boards like this, probably to the chagrin of many readers. But I have done it because I think with terms like those, the definitions matter a LOT. Beach Boys message boards include discussions where people might argue that something like "Time to Get Alone" or Love You is overrated. Really? Because to the world, they're hardly rated at all!
The usage of overrated and underrated has grown to the point of, "we're talking and you don't like the thing I like, so I'm going to say that thing is underrated." It's just a way to talk about a minority opinion you perceive yourself to have, as if your opinion is objectively true but other people aren't understanding it.
A little more on authenticity. Bellbottoms said: I still just don't accept the concept, I don't think: sincerity or authenticity. The quality is quality, and you might believe every word of that love song or you might be thinking of the check you're going to cash when it hits #1. The audience isn't psychic and doesn't know your history, your intentions, nor should it. The audience is going to respond positively to a great performance, which I truly believe is more the result of craftsmanship than of some display of the artist's true (sincere, authentic, or original) self. Few people worry about whether the guy who built a hardwood table was raised among Amish woodworkers (though--I think absurdly--it seems an increasing number do). Most people worry whether it's a good table for the money. Authentic has little to do with it.
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Post by Kapitan on May 26, 2020 19:07:50 GMT
Here's one I somehow forgot "I don't listen to music that's on the radio / That's too mainstream." Yeah, that was me for a good 15 years of my life, unfortunately. Now I think it's a stupid idea.
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Post by kds on May 26, 2020 19:13:36 GMT
Here's one I somehow forgot "I don't listen to music that's on the radio / That's too mainstream." Yeah, that was me for a good 15 years of my life, unfortunately. Now I think it's a stupid idea. I can probably now say I don't listen to music that's on the radio, but I don't specifically avoid it for that reason.
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Post by Kapitan on May 26, 2020 19:16:59 GMT
Yeah, that was me for a good 15 years of my life, unfortunately. Now I think it's a stupid idea. I can probably now say I don't listen to music that's on the radio, but I don't specifically avoid it for that reason. Sadly, that's pretty much what I did. I think it started more innocently than that--it started more that I tended not to like what was mainstream on MTV at the time (mid-90s onward)--but as I thought about it, I talked myself into an elitist opinion that began using the actual argument that certain music's popularity was reason enough not to listen.
I was a dick. Not always the charming and personable fellow you all know and love today.
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Post by kds on May 26, 2020 19:23:42 GMT
I can probably now say I don't listen to music that's on the radio, but I don't specifically avoid it for that reason. Sadly, that's pretty much what I did. I think it started more innocently than that--it started more that I tended not to like what was mainstream on MTV at the time (mid-90s onward)--but as I thought about it, I talked myself into an elitist opinion that began using the actual argument that certain music's popularity was reason enough not to listen.
I was a dick. Not always the charming and personable fellow you all know and love today. I was probably heading down that road at some point in the late 90s, but there were a few acts that got some radio play who I liked.
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