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Post by Kapitan on Mar 28, 2020 0:34:47 GMT
By now, you've read me saying it: most songs are too long, and very few longer songs are worth their length. Cut, cut, cut.
Yet even I do appreciate some songs that are considered long for (broadly defined) pop music. And yes, Bob Dylan's new tedious sludge of a song inspired me to bring it up. But to start, feel free to speak up for pop music (excluding classical and either overly composed or improvisation-heavy jazz) songs that are longer than what I, for one, would normally approve of.
To start, let's name and defend songs in the range of 5:00 to 9:59. (Maybe we'll get to 10+ later, if I don't smash my head against the wall first.)
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Post by kds on Mar 28, 2020 0:44:09 GMT
Bohemian Rhapsody Stairway to Heaven
I dont need to defend those.
There are many too many, so I'll comment when I collect my thoughts a bit more.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 28, 2020 1:17:16 GMT
And of course I do happen to agree with those, as you know. But generally speaking, I think the thread will be far more interesting if people want to say why Song X deserves its running time as opposed to dropping a long list minus explanations. My thought, anyway.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2020 1:34:45 GMT
First of all, give me a 2:30-3:30 song any day. That has always been my preference, probably ingrained by growing up on AM radio. But, yeah, I also appreciate a well-done long song, emphasis on well-done. Just a few:
Lynyrd Skynyrd- "Free Bird" The Kinks - "Shangri-La" Blue Oyster Cult - "Astronomy" and "(Don't Fear) The Reaper" Led Zeppelin - "No Quarter" Bob Dylan - "Like A Rolling Stone", "Tangled Up In Blue", "Idiot Wind" to name just a few Dylan songs; there's several.
and you know I have to include The Doors' long classics: "Light My Fire", "The End", "The Soft Parade", "L.A. Woman", and "Riders On The Storm"
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Post by B.E. on Mar 28, 2020 2:02:19 GMT
You can leave it to me to insert the Beatles into the conversation. It probably doesn't need defending, but I think "Hey Jude" earns its length. I love how it builds up. At first it's just Paul on piano and his single-tracked voice. Then, the acoustic guitar and tambourine come in. Then, the fantastic group backing vocals, drums, and bass enter. I always look forward to the backing vocals! Nice drum fill, too. Classic Ringo. Not long after we get Paul's sweet "let it out and let it in" interjection which is immediately followed by my favorite part of the song - John's harmony vocal. After this verse, I look forward to the next, and then it's the incredible build up and jam. If anyone wants to argue the jam goes on too long I won't object, but I really think Paul's improvisational vocal performance keeps it interesting and exciting enough the rest of the way. I'm always looking forward to the next bit - for over 7 minutes. Edit: Dang, I forgot to mention the way Paul sings "Hey Ju-u-u-u-d-e" to begin the final verse. Another variation to look forward to...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2020 2:11:25 GMT
The Beatles' "A Day In The Life" just barely qualifies at 5:33 but I think of it as a long(er) song.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 28, 2020 2:17:55 GMT
The Beatles' "A Day In The Life" just barely qualifies at 5:33 but I think of it as a long(er) song. And the sections are so distinct, yet work well together. It's a rewarding journey.
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Post by kds on Mar 28, 2020 3:22:13 GMT
I'll add some Pink Floyd. One of several songs between 5-10 minutes is Time. Not a wasted second in this song lamenting the passage of time itself. From the opening chiming of clocks to the foreboding intro, the trading lead vocals of Gilmour and Wright to the guitar solo.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2020 3:54:40 GMT
It seems like my favorite ones are from the late 1960's and early/mid 1970's:
Don McClean - "American Pie" Grand Funk Railroad - "Closer To Home" Queen - "Liar" Lou Reed - "Oh Jim" and "Sad Song"
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 28, 2020 14:50:40 GMT
You can leave it to me to insert the Beatles into the conversation. It probably doesn't need defending, but I think "Hey Jude" earns its length. I love how it builds up. At first it's just Paul on piano and his single-tracked voice. Then, the acoustic guitar and tambourine come in. Then, the fantastic group backing vocals, drums, and bass enter. I always look forward to the backing vocals! Nice drum fill, too. Classic Ringo. Not long after we get Paul's sweet "let it out and let it in" interjection which is immediately followed by my favorite part of the song - John's harmony vocal. After this verse, I look forward to the next, and then it's the incredible build up and jam. If anyone wants to argue the jam goes on too long I won't object, but I really think Paul's improvisational vocal performance keeps it interesting and exciting enough the rest of the way. I'm always looking forward to the next bit - for over 7 minutes. Edit: Dang, I forgot to mention the way Paul sings "Hey Ju-u-u-u-d-e" to begin the final verse. Another variation to look forward to... To me, this is one that seems like it ought not (for my taste) warrant its length because it's so repetitive at the end ... and yet I think that's precisely why it works anyway. With the singalong nature of that simple, repetitive melody, it becomes less a song and more a communal experience. I find that astounding.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2020 14:53:57 GMT
You can leave it to me to insert the Beatles into the conversation. It probably doesn't need defending, but I think "Hey Jude" earns its length. I love how it builds up. At first it's just Paul on piano and his single-tracked voice. Then, the acoustic guitar and tambourine come in. Then, the fantastic group backing vocals, drums, and bass enter. I always look forward to the backing vocals! Nice drum fill, too. Classic Ringo. Not long after we get Paul's sweet "let it out and let it in" interjection which is immediately followed by my favorite part of the song - John's harmony vocal. After this verse, I look forward to the next, and then it's the incredible build up and jam. If anyone wants to argue the jam goes on too long I won't object, but I really think Paul's improvisational vocal performance keeps it interesting and exciting enough the rest of the way. I'm always looking forward to the next bit - for over 7 minutes. Edit: Dang, I forgot to mention the way Paul sings "Hey Ju-u-u-u-d-e" to begin the final verse. Another variation to look forward to... With the singalong nature of that simple, repetitive melody, it becomes less a song and more a communal experience. I find that astounding. And Paul has used that effect to his advantage when he performs "Hey Jude" in concert.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 28, 2020 14:57:07 GMT
Definitely. It sounds as if it were written precisely for that reason, the way "We Will Rock You" was for Queen. But of course the Beatles weren't performing live at the time, so it's hard to know. Has Paul spoken on that ever?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2020 15:01:56 GMT
Now I keep going through Beatles' songs! At 7:47, "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" is another one, and intentionally so. I mean, John really used that repetitive riff brilliantly.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 28, 2020 15:08:09 GMT
Now there I have to disagree. One of the couple worst songs on that album, in my opinion. I'd cut it way, way, way back. (Actually ditto for the Lou Reed songs you mentioned above.)
Conversely I'd also defend "A Day in the Life," whose structural complexity (for pop) make it not even feel especially long. Well, that's not quite true, it does feel epic throughout. But it doesn't feel like it ought to be cut shorter.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 28, 2020 15:17:41 GMT
Now there I have to disagree. One of the couple worst songs on that album, in my opinion. I'd cut it way, way, way back. (Actually ditto for the Lou Reed songs you mentioned above.)
Conversely I'd also defend "A Day in the Life," whose structural complexity (for pop) make it not even feel especially long. Well, that's not quite true, it does feel epic throughout. But it doesn't feel like it ought to be cut shorter.
Oh my. I think they're perfect.
I especially like the Lou Reed Live version of "Oh Jim" with Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter's amazing solos - so it has to be long! Same with "Sad Long". I like the extended tag, both on the studio version and the Lou Reed Live version.
And "I Want You (She's So Heavy)"... After the second half of Side 2, it's the highlight of the album for me. The way it builds, the tension, the emotion. John pulled off a really cool sound on that song. Kind of eerie, kind of rock. Eerie rock!
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