|
Post by Kapitan on Nov 29, 2021 13:56:23 GMT
I watched the first two episodes of Get Back yesterday/last night. As much as I loved that recent McCartney doc where he revisited music with Rubin--and I loved that--this is by far the most fun Beatles-related video or audio release in a long time. Since Anthology, I suppose.
While I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it, I will note there is a funny little exchange in their recollections of India about a certain Californian singer.
I don't think this is a spoiler at all, as it has been in every discussion or preview of the thing. But turn away now if you prefer.
Overall the documentary is great for getting across the complex realities of humans' relationships. Yes, it seems like the guys had soured on one another. Yes, it seems like the guys loved one another. Yes, it seems like the guys were jealous of one another. Yes, it seems like the guys were proud of one another. It's everything, which is true of many people's relationships. It's just that these people also happened to be in the biggest rock band of all time, so people paid attention to every little tidbit, hint, statement, photo, or made-up tabloid rumor. Honestly the celebrity life must be exhausting mentally and emotionally: I do not envy anyone that.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 1, 2021 14:19:32 GMT
Just chiming back in to say I finished this doc Monday night. I loved it.
Of course it's still just a snapshot--an extended one, though--of one month of their lives, but I really feel like I understand the people involved more than I used to. In some ways it just reinforces what we already knew of them, which makes sense because character-personae are usually some reflection or distillation of what's real. But it also shows aspects of them that don't make it into those public personae, or even contradict them. And it shows, even of the characteristics you knew, how they emerged in the course of their work/lives.
What's funny is, at various times I found myself liking more, and disliking more, each Beatle. Well, except (I guess true to his character persona) Ringo. He didn't do anything to make me dislike him, he just kept coming to work, doing his job, and being taken mostly for granted. But it also became more obvious why it was necessary that he be exactly who he was: the other three were in their own ways not just strong personalities, but such drama queens, that had he been of another sort, the band would have been unworkable.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 8, 2021 13:02:52 GMT
It was on this date in 1980 that John Lennon was shot and killed. As we've recently speculated in the Beatles ratings thread, it is interesting to imagine (no pun intended) what he might have gone on to do had he not been murdered.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 4:34:20 GMT
I was in college just a little bit up the road in Manhattan and I remember trying to go to sleep and listening to the radio getting ready for a big day of study your school or whatever and the news came on and all hell broke loose in New York City.
The next day no one knew what to do so we went to the Dakota and just sat there and then maybe and maybe A-day or so later I don't remember exactly when there was a memorial at strawberry field Which was in Central Park just not too far from there. Or I may be misremembering because the memorial was in Central Park but there was no strawberry field created yet.
Anyway this is a long time ago. And then we didn't know what to do so we all went back to the Dakota and just looked up at the window and then we still didn't know what to do ,so I at least went to the museum of natural history and looked at the dinosaurs to gain perspective..
This was just the most horrific thing and to be in New York and to be 18 years old and having grown up and loved The Beatles completely , I have to say this is a loss I've never recovered from.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 16, 2021 21:58:02 GMT
Yesterday a new official, celebrity-studded video was released for George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord."
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Dec 19, 2021 17:36:08 GMT
I finally watched the Get Back documentary!! My goodness, I feel like I need to watch it again and take notes in order to properly discuss it! My thoughts are all over the place and at 8-9 hours it's a lot to recall and keep straight. Here's some ramblings: After watching episode 1, I couldn't get George out of my mind, and the thought that perhaps the Beatles needed to breakup. (It was also during that time that I listened to Cloud Nine for our Meet the Beatles thread, so that was an interesting experience.) On one hand, sure, I felt bad for George because he was bringing in ATMP material and John and Paul weren't giving him his due. But...we already knew that was the case. And in John's defense, in particular, he was approaching the project as he was supposed to (as they agreed upon): they were to put together a set of new material for a live (rock 'n roll) show. George was never really on board with the project (i.e. he was just treating the project as if they were recording a new album, which is more than a little weird and, frankly, passive-aggressive). As great as the material he was bringing in would become, they didn't really fit the project. And George himself admitted that everything he had been writing, for months, was on the slower side. (Which is why he was so excited when he wrote "Old Brown Shoe". Unfortunately, that was just a few days before the rooftop performance, so a little too late to be incorporated. As was John's "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" - by the way, how cool was it seeing Billy light up during that performance!) Where I won't defend John is with "I Me Mine". That absolutely could have worked for the project in the same way that the waltz-time "Baby's In Black" was a rockin' fixture of their live sets. And while I think the truth is, unfortunately, that John just wasn't a big fan of George's songwriting (i.e. it's not the type of thing he'd listen to in his spare time), I absolutely think that in early January 1969 John and George were upset with each other (largely, over Yoko) and, to a lesser degree, John was also probably annoyed because he hadn't written enough quality tunes for the project and not only did he have to contend with Paul at his zenith but now George. By the way, again, I gotta defend John a little: the White Album had only just been released, what, 6 weeks earlier? Why are they rushing into this? We know this was a sticking point with John. He felt Paul had a habit of waiting until he had all his material lined up, thought up a project, then called everyone in with little lead time. Anyway, getting back to George, and maybe I'm exaggerating it a bit in my mind, but I couldn't shake how miserable he was in episode 1. Both frustrated with his role but also a miserable collaborator to work with. John was indifferent, causing things to stall, but George was looking to sink the thing! It's worth noting, though, that he was having personal problems as well and that the same week leading up to his quitting the band, Pattie had left over an affair and, indeed, the night before he quit he ended it and called Pattie hoping she'd come home. Some people who were around thought that his quitting had as much to do with that as it did his problems with both John and Paul, and his role in the band. In this episode, it's so easy to identify with Paul and, frankly, absolve him of his role in the Beatles breakup. But, I gotta say, once George came back, and they headed to Apple studios, everyone's spirits lifted EXCEPT Paul's. George, especially, was like a whole new person (or his old self). John was much more engaged. But, Paul...I knew that Paul was in a bad state, that he was (potentially, severely) depressed, in late '69-early '70 over the impending breakup. But, we see in this documentary that he was already struggling mightily with it in January of 1969. I hadn't realized the extent before. He's on the verge of tears, of shutting down, numerous times throughout. His perfectionism (something the Beatles had never been) was really becoming a problem. Also, his indecision. It was so bizarre to see this INCREDIBLY talented guy absolutely own "I've Got A Feeling" over and over and over, but struggle to perform "The Long And Winding Road" and "Let It Be" over and over and over. You have to think that's mental. That he knows he has something great here but he's not feeling the support from the group and the pressure is getting to him. But, again, it's so weird seeing him be this larger-than-life talent on take after take of all these other songs ( and, seriously, how many songs does this guy have, my god?!) but then basically fall apart and just drag the rest of the group down with him in take after take of his ballads. In one of the contentious moments at Apple, in response to Paul saying "Ok, back to the drudgery" you hear John yell back "It's YOU who's making it like this". If Paul wanted more contribution from John, perhaps get him off the bass guitar? And that's the last thing I'll touch on for the moment. This project was foolish and (unnecessarily) nearly caused the Beatles breakup! If they had just recorded this material like they would any other album. Putting down the basic tracks. Then experimenting with overdubs. Allow George to perfect his solos, allow the group to get the harmonies right (and NOT strain their voices in the process!), etc. For some reason, Paul was just relentless in his desire to get the group to start over as a live group. Which is something that George DID NOT want at all. John and Ringo were open to occasional performances, but not much else. Paul, you're recording artists. You make albums. Everyone was game. Even AFTER Abbey Road. But, remember, even at that point, when they were having those meetings about the future of the group, Paul was STILL trying to get them back on the road, starting from scratch at small venues (like he'd do with Wings), and not being willing to give up control in the studio (i.e. give equal space to John, Paul and George). Did he not learn anything from Get Back? Was he not listening? Presumably, unlike John and George who can be heard discussing it in the documentary, Paul also wasn't open to concurrent outside projects (which can't be overstated when it comes to the Beatles breakup.) We also see Paul's reluctance to altering the group, despite the huge success bringing in Billy Preston has on the sessions! Paul realized he was getting carried away with his aspirations for the project, but he couldn't help it. Oh, and it was a revelation to me that Paul had to be convinced to perform the rooftop performance as a rehearsal for something else. Look, I'm not mad at Paul or anything, in fact, I seem to become a bigger fan of his over time, but I do think, of the four, he is most responsible for the breakup. This documentary only strengthened that believe. He wanted to stay together the most. He tried the hardest. He gave the most effort. But he was least willing to compromise. He also was the most distraught over the state of the group. He cracked. He reached his tipping point and broke the group up once and for all. Edit: If it doesn't come across: I loved the documentary!
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Dec 21, 2021 7:28:31 GMT
I haven't seen Get Back, but I know the history, and I agree with a lot of your points, B.E. One problem is that Paul is bringing in all these piano ballads, meaning that someone else has to play bass guitar. John? John's not a bass player. George? George can play bass, but then you don't have his guitar contributions. It's interesting that the original lineup of Wings was basically a 3 piece (I'm looking at you, Linda McCartney), with Paul on bass, Denny L on guitar, and Denny S on drums. They found out pretty quickly that wasn't going to work,and brought in Henry McCullough on guitar. Of course, the Fabs eventually brought in Billy P, but then Paul is playing piano while Billy is playing organ. The idea of doing a strictly live in the studio, no overdubs album is fine, but you gotta have the right kinds of songs, not Long and Winding Road and Let it Be. Well, I'll see this thing someday. Time to fire up that 15 year old VHS of Let it Be again.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2021 12:56:14 GMT
It really is worth watching, lonelysummer . Being so much longer, so much more footage, you get a much better picture of everyone and I'd say more complex/realistic impressions of everyone. I came out of it with my previous impressions both reinforced and contradicted.
I don't think the instrument switching with respect to bass was that big a deal for a few ballads here and there, though. Both John and George were more than capable of playing those kinds of bass parts. It's not to say that's how to best use their talents, but they could make it work.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Dec 21, 2021 13:12:02 GMT
Yes, I agree with Kapitan. lonelysummer , frankly, I think you'd be wasting your time watching that VHS bootleg when in that time you could be watching Episode 1 of Get Back. A monthly subscription to DisneyPlus is only $7.99, I believe. The new documentary is quite literally better in every conceivable way. (And I meant to bring this up anyway...) If you're concerned that it's revisionist or whitewashed: Don't be!!! It isn't in the slightest. That appears to have just been a marketing strategy. Yes, there are more positive moments, but that's merely a result of a MUCH longer runtime. All their troubles are still right there in the open - more so, in fact. But now we've got better visual and audio quality. More dialog, more expressions and body language to read. Some of which fans had heard but not seen, some of which are entirely new. The new audio technology is especially great. They were able to separate the dialog from the background noise and reveal things that were largely unintelligible before. This is the most complete and insightful look into January 1969 that any of us will ever get. I couldn't recommend it more highly. If it gets a little long in spots, then take a break. Watch it at your own pace. But as Peter Jackson said, if he wasn't sure if he should include something - he included it. Because he knew if he didn't it would disappear into the vaults forever.
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Dec 21, 2021 22:00:25 GMT
Yes, I agree with Kapitan. lonelysummer , frankly, I think you'd be wasting your time watching that VHS bootleg when in that time you could be watching Episode 1 of Get Back. A monthly subscription to DisneyPlus is only $7.99, I believe. The new documentary is quite literally better in every conceivable way. (And I meant to bring this up anyway...) If you're concerned that it's revisionist or whitewashed: Don't be!!! It isn't in the slightest. That appears to have just been a marketing strategy. Yes, there are more positive moments, but that's merely a result of a MUCH longer runtime. All their troubles are still right there in the open - more so, in fact. But now we've got better visual and audio quality. More dialog, more expressions and body language to read. Some of which fans had heard but not seen, some of which are entirely new. The new audio technology is especially great. They were able to separate the dialog from the background noise and reveal things that were largely unintelligible before. This is the most complete and insightful look into January 1969 that any of us will ever get. I couldn't recommend it more highly. If it gets a little long in spots, then take a break. Watch it at your own pace. But as Peter Jackson said, if he wasn't sure if he should include something - he included it. Because he knew if he didn't it would disappear into the vaults forever. That said, it's worth reminding that the original will be remastered and re-released (though, the date is not set). Peter Jackson purposefully recycled as little footage as possible. I believe that is a win-win-win for the original film, the new documentary, and the fans. To his credit, for the scenes included in both, he tried to use alternate camera angles (there were only a few instances where he couldn't). He really did an incredible job.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2021 22:33:49 GMT
I think the new doc is just spectacular. I want to talk more about it, but end up just repeating myself because how many times can you say "the Beatles were fucking great"?
But that is a big part of the takeaway. No surprise there.
Really though, I will be the broken record and say again, the other main takeaway for me was that everyone is a human being. A full human being. Not a one-dimensional, or even multidimensional, character who fits into a story-line. Just because Paul was partly responsible for breaking up the Beatles by being a control freak, that doesn't mean Paul was responsible for breaking up the Beatles by being a control freak. And it also doesn't explain away why his being a control freak might have been essential for the Beatles in the past (or even the first place), or how it wasn't him who broke up the Beatles. Because that was John ... unless it was George (assuming we ignore Ringo leaving earlier).
That kind of thing, it goes with all of them. John might complain about Paul, but goddamn it, Paul came with songs and energy, while John seemed mostly unenthused and had half-assed, half-realized song ideas. George complains that he doesn't get his fair share, but he WAS sharing album space with LENNON AND MCCARTNEY. And he seemed far and away the least interested in being a Beatle anymore: he didn't seem to want to do anything, just as long as he got to do [nothing] his way, without taking orders.
All of it, it was all human relationships, but between spectacularly talented and absurdly famous people. It's a miracle they lasted long enough to get to that point. Beautiful doc.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2021 23:52:39 GMT
Just came across this for my first time, anyway--not sure if it is commonly known. It's John Lennon doing a track-by-track review of Abbey Road back in September 1969. Interesting for any number of reasons.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Dec 22, 2021 5:07:25 GMT
I'll see Get Back when the DVD comes out. Won't surprise me if there's bonus footage included, too. And whatever happened to the Shea Stadium concert? That needs a proper release, too. The Budokan concert from 1966, too.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Dec 22, 2021 13:29:29 GMT
I'm sure those Beatles concerts will get a proper release at some point.
In the meantime, we have the long long long (see what I did there?) awaiting expanded Get Back doc.
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 29, 2021 14:20:40 GMT
Sorry about this. Well it keeps me off the Dutch streets, I suppose. Think title track of an iconic Beatles album: "It was more than forty years ago Captain Beefheart taught the band to blow Well it wasn't that they couldn't play He just taught them how to play his way So may I introduce to you A sculptor of amazing sounds Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band" [insert any five consecutive bars of "Hair Pie: Bake 2"] "We're Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band This next line's from the song's reprise We're Captain Beefheart and His Far-From-Tragic Magic Band Go out and buy all our CDs Captain Beefheart and His Captain Beefheart and His Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band "If you like polyrhythms And discords are your thing And you don't care if we're in sync Then we're your best bet, I would say We'll drive you all to drink "I don't really wanna start the show But if I don't we won't get paid, I know So the singer's going to sing a song Play some sax and maybe thump a gong Now let me introduce to you The one and only Don Van Vliet Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band "Don________ Van________ Vliet___" [segue into "Sugar N' Spikes"]
|
|