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Post by B.E. on Sept 12, 2020 20:10:18 GMT
As promised. Try not to induce a migraine.
10/10 1. Another Side Of Bob Dylan 2. Blood On The Tracks 3. The Times They Are A-Changin’
9/10 4. Highway 61 Revisited 5. Bringing It All Back Home 6. The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan
8/10 7. Planet Waves 8. New Morning 9. Desire 10. John Wesley Harding 11. Bob Dylan 12. Street Legal
7/10 13. Blonde On Blonde 14. Hard Rain 15. Dylan 16. Slow Train Coming 17. Shot Of Love 18. Love & Theft 19. Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid 20. Under The Red Sky 21. Nashville Skyline
6/10 22. Before The Flood 23. Self Portrait 24. The Basement Tapes 25. Saved 26. Time Out Of Mind 27. Down In The Groove 28. Infidels 29. Tempest 30. Good As I Been To You 31. Together Through Life 32. World Gone Wrong 33. Christmas In The Heart 34. Bob Dylan at Budokan 35. Oh Mercy 36. Unplugged 37. Empire Burlesque 38. Knocked Out Loaded 39. Modern Times 40. Shadows In The Night
5/10 41. Real Live 42. Rough and Rowdy Ways 43. Fallen Angels 44. Dylan & the Dead 45. Triplicate
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 12, 2020 20:29:53 GMT
I congratulate you on your ambition. Honestly I don't think I could even begin the job of rating all those albums: so many, and I'm just not familiar enough with some of them (having listened a few times whenever I bought them and sort of left them mentally sorted in their places) to truly compare. And the idea of going through them all, in full, to rate them in a short enough period of time that I'd trust my comparisons? Too intimidating!
We disagree A LOT on the ranking and ratings, but such is life.
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 13, 2020 7:33:50 GMT
As promised. Try not to induce a migraine. 10/101. Another Side Of Bob Dylan 2. Blood On The Tracks 3. The Times They Are A-Changin’ 9/104. Highway 61 Revisited 5. Bringing It All Back Home 6. The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan 8/107. Planet Waves 8. New Morning 9. Desire 10. John Wesley Harding 11. Bob Dylan 12. Street Legal 7/1013. Blonde On Blonde 14. Hard Rain 15. Dylan 16. Slow Train Coming 17. Shot Of Love 18. Love & Theft 19. Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid 20. Under The Red Sky 21. Nashville Skyline 6/1022. Before The Flood 23. Self Portrait 24. The Basement Tapes 25. Saved 26. Time Out Of Mind 27. Down In The Groove 28. Infidels 29. Tempest 30. Good As I Been To You 31. Together Through Life 32. World Gone Wrong 33. Christmas In The Heart 34. Bob Dylan at Budokan 35. Oh Mercy 36. Unplugged 37. Empire Burlesque 38. Knocked Out Loaded 39. Modern Times 40. Shadows In The Night 5/1041. Real Live 42. Rough and Rowdy Ways 43. Fallen Angels 44. Dylan & the Dead 45. Triplicate Interesting rankings. I like a person who can think for themselves.
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 13, 2020 7:45:01 GMT
Okay, after Triplicate broke my will months ago, I finally finished my Dylan quest and listened to Rough and Rowdy Ways. I pretty much agree with SJS' posts back in June, and I'm surprised he listened 3 times. For me, once is enough for a long while. I even broke it down into 3 separate listening sessions due to its length. I think the standout for me is "Crossing the Rubicon", but I'd still only rate it a 7.5/10. I actually got more enjoyment out of simply reading the lyrics to a few of the songs than listening to them. Consequently, I think the praise for this album is ridiculous. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate it. I wouldn't even say I dislike it. I just feel great indifference. So, to see critics and fans rate it so much higher than the majority of his 2000s work (and beyond), is hard for me to wrap my brain around. I'd rather listen to Tempest or Together Through Life, let alone Love and Theft. To me, Rough and Rowdy Ways and Modern Times (sorry, Kapitan!) might be the two most boring non-standards Dylan albums. (Granted, as stated, this is after only one full listen.) Edit: The other songs that I (kinda) liked most were "I've Made Up My Mind To Give Myself To You", "Goodbye Jimmy Reed", "My Own Version Of You", and "False Prophet". Now this is how I feel about the critical response to the albums from Time Out of Mind onward, compared with his 70's output, which I feel is unfairly overlooked - except for Blood on the Tracks. Time Out of Mind is an album I can listen to over and over (just like it's precursor, Oh Mercy). Love and Theft has some good stuff on it, but there's no way I would choose it or Modern Times over Street Legal, Desire, Slow Train Coming or Planet Waves. Part of the problem is how rough his voice sounds. In fact, I had a day like that recently - there were some notes right in the middle of my range - not the low notes, not the high notes - that were all scratchy and awful sounding. Everytime I listen to these later albums, I think "if only he had recorded this when he still had his voice". It gets really problematic on Tempest. Yet, the critics greeted each of these albums with unanimous praise - almost like, "well, he's old now, go easy on the old guy". Vocally, I think he was strongest on the run of albums from Planet Waves to Desire. If people can't take his singing on those albums, they're just plain not gonna "get" Bob. I gotta go back and listen to the new one again, been a couple months. But part of the reason it was greeted was so warmly was the timing - here we are, stuck at home, month after month, just give us something, anything! I wonder how a road dog like Bob is taking the time off? Already working on a followup? Going fishing? Planning another covers album?
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 13, 2020 12:05:13 GMT
You're probably right about critics (and fans) with an almost unspoken rule of ignoring what's bad. They basically review the legend alongside the album.
I definitely rate Love & Theft higher than you guys: it's way, way up there for me. Top five territory, far and away the best of his 90s-and-beyond work. While I like Modern Times, I agree its not as good as its predecessor, and it's rough going after that, where both the peaks and valleys are lower than those before. Personally I have no time for Tempest or the standards albums. (I am not nearly as high on the 70s albums. I think some of them are good, but most are more average.)
So far I'm still higher on Rough & Rowdy Ways than you guys, it seems. But that's not saying much, and while my verdict isn't in, we're talking the range of Tempest to Together Through Life, here, not Bringing It All Back Home to Highway 61 Revisited.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 13, 2020 12:34:59 GMT
As promised. Try not to induce a migraine. 10/101. Another Side Of Bob Dylan 2. Blood On The Tracks 3. The Times They Are A-Changin’ 9/104. Highway 61 Revisited 5. Bringing It All Back Home 6. The Freewheelin’ Bob Dylan 8/107. Planet Waves 8. New Morning 9. Desire 10. John Wesley Harding 11. Bob Dylan 12. Street Legal 7/1013. Blonde On Blonde 14. Hard Rain 15. Dylan 16. Slow Train Coming 17. Shot Of Love 18. Love & Theft 19. Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid 20. Under The Red Sky 21. Nashville Skyline 6/1022. Before The Flood 23. Self Portrait 24. The Basement Tapes 25. Saved 26. Time Out Of Mind 27. Down In The Groove 28. Infidels 29. Tempest 30. Good As I Been To You 31. Together Through Life 32. World Gone Wrong 33. Christmas In The Heart 34. Bob Dylan at Budokan 35. Oh Mercy 36. Unplugged 37. Empire Burlesque 38. Knocked Out Loaded 39. Modern Times 40. Shadows In The Night 5/1041. Real Live 42. Rough and Rowdy Ways 43. Fallen Angels 44. Dylan & the Dead 45. Triplicate Oh, my...Forty-five albums! And he's only 79 years old. Good work, B.E. The funny thing is, I mostly agree with your recent Dylan album posts, but when I look at these rankings, I have a lot of different opinions. But, that's what makes rankings interesting and fun to kick around.
The first thing that stuck out were the 10s. I wouldn't put Another Side Of Bob Dylan or The Times They Are A-Changin' that high; actually I'd dip down a FEW numbers with them. Second, just move your 9s up one slot with Blood On The Tracks and and we'll be fine. I'm STILL trying to figure out John Wesley Harding's charm (you gave it an 8), but that's my problem. Also, interesting that you placed Dylan that high (a 7); I do love "Lily Of The West"; THE most underrated Dylan recording. You realize that you ranked Blonde And Blonde in the same bracket (a 7) with Dylan and Under The Red Sky (an album I like BTW). OK, how could you rank Oh Mercy a 6!? Modern Times has grown on me after a slow start. Real Live is a good album that should be higher, and Christmas From The Heart is a bad album which should be near the bottom. Other than that, I agree with most your other 36 rankings!
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 13, 2020 13:06:24 GMT
I am feeling like it might be fun to try my own rankings (despite my previous--and still held--doubts about my ability). So, more on this later. (Maybe. Unless I give up.)
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Post by B.E. on Sept 13, 2020 20:01:46 GMT
Part of the problem is how rough his voice sounds. In fact, I had a day like that recently - there were some notes right in the middle of my range - not the low notes, not the high notes - that were all scratchy and awful sounding. Everytime I listen to these later albums, I think "if only he had recorded this when he still had his voice". It gets really problematic on Tempest. Yet, the critics greeted each of these albums with unanimous praise - almost like, "well, he's old now, go easy on the old guy". Vocally, I think he was strongest on the run of albums from Planet Waves to Desire. If people can't take his singing on those albums, they're just plain not gonna "get" Bob. It's no accident that my list reflects this so strongly - it's a HUGE factor for me. Not just with Dylan, but with all artists. You're probably right about critics (and fans) with an almost unspoken rule of ignoring what's bad. They basically review the legend alongside the album. So far I'm still higher on Rough & Rowdy Ways than you guys, it seems. But that's not saying much, and while my verdict isn't in, we're talking the range of Tempest to Together Through Life, here, not Bringing It All Back Home to Highway 61 Revisited.
Right. We all seem to be in agreement on this. It's the near unanimous 5 star ratings that I find nonsensical, not positive reviews more generally. You could almost just say, "they basically review the legend." Although, it's not really that simple. It's more about meeting whatever expectation they have of Dylan at a particular time (which has more or less been static since the mid 60s).
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Post by B.E. on Sept 13, 2020 20:10:25 GMT
Oh, my...Forty-five albums! And he's only 79 years old. Good work, B.E. The funny thing is, I mostly agree with your recent Dylan album posts, but when I look at these rankings, I have a lot of different opinions. But, that's what makes rankings interesting and fun to kick around. The first thing that stuck out were the 10s. I wouldn't put Another Side Of Bob Dylan or The Times They Are A-Changin' that high; actually I'd dip down a FEW numbers with them. Second, just move your 9s up one slot with Blood On The Tracks and and we'll be fine. I'm STILL trying to figure out John Wesley Harding's charm (you gave it an 8), but that's my problem. Also, interesting that you placed Dylan that high (a 7); I do love "Lily Of The West"; THE most underrated Dylan recording. You realize that you ranked Blonde And Blonde in the same bracket (a 7) with Dylan and Under The Red Sky (an album I like BTW). OK, how could you rank Oh Mercy a 6!? Modern Times has grown on me after a slow start. Real Live is a good album that should be higher, and Christmas From The Heart is a bad album which should be near the bottom. Other than that, I agree with most your other 36 rankings! I love it, SJS! Each objection brought a grin to my face. That is the fun of it. (I especially enjoyed you questioning if I realized who I lumped Blonde On Blonde with! Yeah, it does stick out there, doesn't it? ) This discussion reminds me of that thread about 'who's our Brian Wilson'. Except, here the subject is Bob Dylan. We all have the sides of Dylan that we prefer, that speaks to us most, and that's what these rankings really get at. Twice this week I listened to Another Side Of Bob Dylan. Not for the purposes of these rankings or anything, I was just reaching for an old favorite - and I enjoyed it as much as I ever have. But, that's just me, and I'm cool with that. As far as Dylan goes, there's not a song I dislike on there. It's a fun listen. Nothing special, far from it, but enjoyable. I think it's surprisingly well-produced and cohesive, considering its origins and the existence of Self Portrait. In addition to "Lily", I rate "Ira Hayes" and "Sarah Jane" fairly highly, as well as his cover of the Elvis classic "Can't Help Falling In Love", which had NO right working in any fashion, but somehow does (IMO). In regard to Blonde On Blonde's ranking, keep in mind that the highest '7' on my list is more comparable to a low '8' than a low '7', but point taken. Honestly, I have my reasons, but I'm not really in the mood to even talk about that album at the moment. Interesting that you note Real Live. That's one that was new to me, I think I only listened once. My main issue was his voice - it had deteriorated to another level. It's sometimes hard for me to get into a live version of a song, like "Masters Of War", which is so inferior to the original (and I'm speaking mostly about vocal delivery). The original is one of my favorite songs and vocal performances of his entire career. IIRC, "Ballad Of A Thin Man" was a particularly rough vocal performance (which got progressively worse throughout). I also think some of Mick Taylor's guitar hero-ing was off-putting. But, that's just a matter of taste and expectation (i.e. not necessarily what I want from Bob Dylan). I also didn't think there were really any standout, best performances. As for Oh Mercy? I hate to use the word, again, but: boring. Maybe I'm not familiar enough, but I just think the production is so soft. There's no edge to that album! His vocals are soft, and careful, too. His latter day, old man voice appears to have fully arrived and he sounds tentative as a result. Or maybe it's a reflection of the songwriting. There's what, one and half "rockers"? I actually like most of the songs, but listening to them all back to back, with that production, is sleep inducing. And I actually don't think the songwriting is that great (for Dylan). I can totally see how refreshing that album must have been to fans and critics, for numerous reasons, but it just doesn't excite me. Under The Red Sky is more fun. It's got more energy and diversity, and is better produced. I'll take "God Knows" or "Unbelievable" over pretty much anything on Oh Mercy. In that regard, my favorites on Oh Mercy are "Everything Is Broken" and "Shooting Star". My least favorites are "Most Of The Time" (one of the most un-Dylan tracks I've ever heard) and "Man In The Long Black Coat". This might be a good time to introduce one of my most pleasant surprises: Saved. Outside of Slow Train Coming, I had avoided his more evangelical work. Mistake! Now, this succeeds where Oh Mercy fails. His voice is in better shape and his singing is far more impressive and spirited. The production is also much better. I won't say it's timeless-sounding, but it is by comparison. This is a passionate album. Songs like "Saved" and "Solid Rock", possibly my two least favorite, are infectious as hell! There's so much more energy and enthusiasm (even in the slower songs). "Pressing On" is a song that hits me hard. I connect with it far more than anything on Oh Mercy, and I don't believe the lyrical content has much to do with it. It just has that emotional punch that great gospel music has. Lyrically, I don't think you need be religious to enjoy this song or this album. It's a song of perseverance. Again, it's the passion, enthusiasm, and sincerity that I'm attracted to. And for those fans who might have been turned off by the more antagonistic, nasty side of Dylan that can be heard on Slow Train Coming (which I like), there's not really any of that on Saved. It's much more positive. Maybe the final song, "Are You Ready", might make some uncomfortable, but there's not a hint of antagonism there (like there is in something like "When You Gonna Wake Up").
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Post by B.E. on Sept 13, 2020 20:13:22 GMT
We disagree A LOT on the ranking and ratings, but such is life.
Well, whether it's your full ranking (good luck!) or just some pointed objections, I'm interested to hear.
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 13, 2020 20:22:07 GMT
I think my opinion of the early albums is probably contrary to most; The Times They Are A Changin' was the last one I added to my collection, and musically, it didn't hold my interest; it's all about the words. Freewheelin' is a bit more versatile, so I prefer that one, it's not just one topical song after another. Another Side Of has some great songs on it, but I wouldn't choose it over Bringing it All Back Home. There's even a difference between Bringing... and Highway 61 Revisited. On Bringing, it sounds like Bob started strumming his guitar, and the band just started wailing away behind him. On Highway 61, they sound more together. Minor complaint: the harmonica was understandably a big part of his sound when he was a folkie, but when he went electric, it was still like every song had to have a harmonica solo; and yet he's got Michael Bloomfield right next to him in the studio, let the guy cut loose! These are the things nobody ever says because it's like 63-66 Dylan is sacred; I think, as a record maker, he was at the top of his game from 73-79. Yeah, I know about all the complaints about how Street Legal was recorded, and I understand them; nobody's gonna mistake that album for Rumours or The Stranger. I love it's rough sound; almost like some 50's r&b record. In fact, Slow Train Coming might be in danger of being too slick, except that Bob is giving 110% on those vocals; he's not holding anything back on "I Believe In You" and "When He Returns". Ah, the man; I could go on for hours about him.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 13, 2020 21:02:05 GMT
I think my opinion of the early albums is probably contrary to most; The Times They Are A Changin' was the last one I added to my collection, and musically, it didn't hold my interest; it's all about the words. Freewheelin' is a bit more versatile, so I prefer that one, it's not just one topical song after another. Another Side Of has some great songs on it, but I wouldn't choose it over Bringing it All Back Home. There's even a difference between Bringing... and Highway 61 Revisited. On Bringing, it sounds like Bob started strumming his guitar, and the band just started wailing away behind him. On Highway 61, they sound more together. Minor complaint: the harmonica was understandably a big part of his sound when he was a folkie, but when he went electric, it was still like every song had to have a harmonica solo; and yet he's got Michael Bloomfield right next to him in the studio, let the guy cut loose! These are the things nobody ever says because it's like 63-66 Dylan is sacred; I think, as a record maker, he was at the top of his game from 73-79. Yeah, I know about all the complaints about how Street Legal was recorded, and I understand them; nobody's gonna mistake that album for Rumours or The Stranger. I love it's rough sound; almost like some 50's r&b record. In fact, Slow Train Coming might be in danger of being too slick, except that Bob is giving 110% on those vocals; he's not holding anything back on "I Believe In You" and "When He Returns". Ah, the man; I could go on for hours about him. For me, it's not just the words, but his delivery. The perfect word to describe it is: prophetic. I kinda get that otherworldly feeling that I get with Brian and the boys at their best. Conceivably, someone else coulda wrote "Blowin' In The Wind", but it's hard for me to imagine someone else bringing it to life like he did. One of the reasons I rate Freewheelin' lower than Times They Are A-Changin' is that I don't think it's as consistent (i.e. the "lows" are lower). If you listen closely, on part of the album he still sounds like the Bob of his debut album. Which isn't a bad thing, but it does feel slightly disjointed/uneven as a result. So songs like "Bob Dylan's Blues", "Honey, Just Allow Me One More Chance", and "Down The Highway". It might be what you prefer about it, I just think they are slightly weaker tracks (it's hard to differentiate and rank great albums!). As for the harmonica, I disagree. Or at least it's never bothered me (apart from being mixed too loudly or mastered too harshly, on occasion), and in later years I'm always happy to hear it return (including, in great, distorted fashion on "What Can I Do For You?" from Saved). It seems to me that the truly sacred Dylan period is 65-66. I don't think the love for Bob Dylan - Another Side Of Bob Dylan is as universal or blind. I totally agree about Street Legal (and the nearly too slick Slow Train Coming). I had heard Street Legal a few times, but kinda wrote it off a little. His vocals had aged a bit and the production isn't entirely to my liking. Even some of the songs I'm supposed to love aren't among my favorites. But, it was recently another pleasant surprise for me as I revisited it. Enough that I gave it an '8', and I think your description is part of it. It's funny, I've actually been considered buying this on CD in recent days. I've always had it on vinyl, but I'm missing it now that my Spotify subscription expired.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 14, 2020 17:31:45 GMT
I've been on an almost entirely Dylan diet since your list, B.E., and I've gotta say ... it's rough! None of these albums is new to me yet (though a couple of the live ones will be), but until you listen to them one after the other, you don't really absorb the scope of his work. And honestly, the contrast of the bad from the good from the brilliant. I've been skipping around timewise, to avoid falling into the narrative arc of his career if I went chronologically, or any kind of "best to worst" (or vice versa) tropes.
That Freewheelin' and Street Legal are by the same guy is amazing. In a bad way. (I hate Street Legal ... though I know there are worse ones yet to relisten to and rate.)
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Post by B.E. on Sept 14, 2020 18:42:03 GMT
That Freewheelin' and Street Legal are by the same guy is amazing. In a bad way. (I hate Street Legal ... though I know there are worse ones yet to relisten to and rate.)
I'm a little surprised you're that down on Street Legal. What's your main problem with it? The arrangements, the songwriting, something else...
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 14, 2020 18:57:06 GMT
Honestly all of the above. I don't like the songs much at all. The best ones, mostly on Side Two (with "Senor" probably my favorite on the entire album), aren't very good. And then something like "Baby, Stop Cryin'" warrants about 90 seconds and instead runs on for almost five and a half minutes.
I don't like the arrangements much at all.
I really don't like the production at all.
To be fair, there is something in mid-to-late 70s production in general that I hate. It's not just Dylan's work of that period. I can't listen to Lou Reed's stuff from those years. Paul Simon's. Billy Joel's has some of that. Lennon's. Even Springsteen to some extent, though I prefer what he was getting over those others even though there were similarities. The sound of that era just doesn't appeal to me at all. Guitars usually sound thin. Electric pianos tend to annoy me. Both of those often were treated with phasers or flangers (though thankfully not on this album.) I'm not a sax fan.
It's all too smooth in those years. A kind of soft-jazz, lite-rock that doesn't do justice to either genre's name. With better songs, I can enjoy it more. There aren't good songs on Street Legal, to my taste.
This may be why I appreciate his more recent albums more than many of you seem to: the sound of them is far more appealing to me despite the flaws in those songs. Even a nondescript shuffle or blues by his current band on a recent album is more enjoyable by far to me than the 70s and 80s sounds except with the best of those older songs.
By the way, in my initial, rough rankings, I gave Street Legal a 4.8, which is the lowest of the seven albums I've gone through so far. I haven't listened to any of the acknowledged classics yet, all of which I know pretty well.
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