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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 30, 2020 2:42:13 GMT
Just for the heck of it, here are the Billboard chart rankings for Bob Dylan's studio albums. The U.S. chart ranking is first, the U.K. chart ranking is second:
Bob Dylan - did not chart, 13
The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan - 22, 1 The Times They Are a-Changin' - 20, 4 Another Side Of Bob Dylan - 43, 8 Bringing It All Back Home - 6, 1 Highway 61 Revisited - 3, 4 Blonde On Blonde - 9, 3 John Wesley Harding - 2, 1 Nashville Skyline - 3, 1 Self Portrait - 4, 1 New Morning - 7, 1 Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid - 16, 29 Dylan - 17, did not chart Planet Waves - 1, 7 Blood On The Tracks - 1, 4 The Basement Tapes - 7, 8 Desire - 1, 3 Street-Legal - 11, 2 Slow Train Coming - 3, 2 Saved - 24, 3 Shot Of Love - 33, 6 Infidels - 20. 9 Empire Burlesque - 33, 11 Knocked Out Loaded - 54, 35 Down In The Groove - 61, 32 Oh Mercy - 30, 6 Under The Red Sky - 38, 13 Good as I Been to You - 51, 18 World Gone wrong - 70, 35 Time Out Of Mind - 10, 10 Love And Theft - 5, 3 Modern Times - 1, 3 Together Through Life - 1, 1 Christmas In The Heart - 23, 40 Tempest - 3, 3 Shadows in the Night - 7, 1 Fallen Angels - 7, 5 Triplicate - 37, 17 Rough And Rowdy Ways - 2, 1
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 30, 2020 11:52:14 GMT
Wow I'm actually a little surprised at how high Dylan's albums charted, overall. I knew some of the later albums charted well in this world where charts don't mean a lot and albums sales are skewed demographically to favor him. (So Modern Times, Together Through Life, those kinds of things don't surprise me.)
But the fact that almost all of his albums were Top 40 is astounding, especially considering how bad some of the worst ones are. (It's also sad to me that two of his better albums in the decades just prior to his millennial rebirth--the acoustic covers albums, Good as I Been to You and World Gone Wrong--were among those that didn't. I get that they weren't the most commercial things, but I prefer them to basically everything he had done in the 10 years prior.)
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Post by jk on Jun 30, 2020 12:07:44 GMT
The only Dylan record I ever bought was the 45 of "Like A Rolling Stone", which went top five in the UK in 1965.
Imagine what sort of an impact that made at the time!
The B-side, "Gates Of Eden", was all about the lyrics so I never bothered with it. I've come to appreciate its qualities since then--hell, I looked down on Bach, Mozart and Beethoven in those days!
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 30, 2020 12:24:59 GMT
The only Dylan record I ever bought was the 45 of "Like A Rolling Stone", which went top five in the UK in 1965. Imagine what sort of an impact that made at the time! It certainly made one on Jimi Hendrix, which is through whom I first heard the song. I had a cassette of his Monterey Pop Festival set, and he included it in a strange version: out of tune guitar, vamping on the intro, "I'd like to bore you for about six or seven minutes ... this is a song by Bob Dylan--that's his grandma over there," and I think he apologizes for forgetting some words in there somewhere.
It was probably approaching a decade later before I got the Dylan original. (I didn't get into Dylan until my senior year of college, when I bought a few of the best regarded albums as part of my quest to be familiar with all of the "best of" lists that came around at the end of the century.)
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 1, 2020 14:44:59 GMT
I still don't feel like I ought to review Rough and Rowdy Ways because most of my listens haven't been careful, but casual. However, I can say I've listened to it straight through maybe half a dozen times, with a few other tracks intentionally or randomly coming up more than that.
There is no question I've enjoyed and listened to it more than I did Tempest. It is a little samey, but I suspect I'm going to eventually put it somewhere between Modern Times and Together Through Life, maybe similar to Time Out of Mind in standing, as time goes on.
However, I can't imagine ever wanting to listen to "Murder Most Foul" again. I've got no use for it whatsoever. It's probably my least favorite Bob Dylan song ever. I'm astounded that it was a chart success.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 2, 2020 7:02:01 GMT
One of the strange effects of this pandemic is that i don't seem particularly interested in hearing new music. I'm still interested in discovering old music i haven't heard before, but new music? But i have listened to 3 of the new Dylan songs...i don't even remember the titles now. Although there is much to enjoy in the series of albums since Time Out of Mind, sometimes i think the praise from the critics is a bit over the top. The same critics that gave a drubbing to Planet Waves, Street Legal, Shot of Love, World Gone Wrong....I think those are all fine albums. I sure would like to have a Bootleg Series set focusing on any of those albums. It is impressive that Bob is still making new music - and i'm sure someday soon i will give the new album a listen. And i'm sure i will like it far more than anything McCartney has produced recently.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 2, 2020 13:13:14 GMT
I'm with you, right up to here: And i'm sure i will like it far more than anything McCartney has produced recently. Personally, I think I enjoy Paul's 21 century output slightly more, but that might be entirely down to familiarity. I'm only just now catching up on Dylan's most recent albums. Objectively, I think they are of very similar quality, each have their own strengths and weaknesses (largely the same as they've been historically). Musically, Paul's more interesting. Lyrically, Dylan. Vocally, Paul help up longer, and until very recently had always been a better singer. Production-wise, Bob's albums have been more consistent, but that's not inherently better or worse (though, a preference of mine). Despite their relative strengths and weaknesses, I think they've both released quality, late career albums. Very, very rarely do they even approach their greatest work, but it's been mostly respectable and quite often enjoyable (IMO).
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 2, 2020 13:30:26 GMT
I agree with you, B.E.
I do prefer Dylan's albums from Time Out of Mind to Paul's in that same period, but Paul's are still all high quality: nothing is terrible, just maybe more by-numbers. But Dylan isn't immune to that either, as I thought Tempest especially (but to some degree all of the originals since Modern Times) was pretty much just latter-day-Dylan-by-numbers.
But as long as they aren't bad--meaning poorly performed, badly recorded, embarrassingly produced--that's not the worst thing in the world. Being solidly average, sufficient to live up to the name, isn't bad for a popular musician in his 60s and 70s. It's hard to be a groundbreaking legend, after all, even in your 20s. Keeping it up for 50 years?
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Post by B.E. on Jul 2, 2020 17:01:08 GMT
I know I commented on it recently, but I'm still surprised at the commercial success of Dylan's albums between Blonde on Blonde and Blood on the Tracks, and how relatively poorly the Beach Boys fared during the same period. I thought a quick head-to-head might be fun. Do you prefer any of these Dylan albums to their Beach Boys counterparts?
John Wesley Harding (2,1) vs. Friends (126,13)
The gap has narrowed for me. In the past, I would have immediately picked Friends. Now, I do so after some careful consideration. Regardless of my preference, though, I don't think these albums differ in quality so much as to explain these chart results! Both albums are a bit of a departure from what you would've expected, but not that far removed from their popular sound.
Nashville Skyline (3,1) vs. 20/20 (68,3)
This is an easy one for me - 20/20. You'd also think it would be an easy one for their respective fans, apparently not...
Self Portrait (4,1) vs Sunflower (151,29)
What an abomination!!! Need I say more? And, again, the Beach Boys sound more like the classic Beach Boys here.
New Morning (7,1) vs Surf's Up (29,15)
Okay, here is where I depart from my Beach Boys brethren (and possibly reality), but I'm taking New Morning despite its lower lows ("If Dogs Run Free" and "Three Angels"). I really enjoy the rest of the album in a way I simply don't when it comes to Surf's Up. And, lately I've been preferring the Smile version of "Surf's Up", so it's really only "Til I Die" that's causing me problems with my decision. It's a close call.
Dylan (17, - ) vs Carl & the Passions - So Tough (50,25)
While I'm a bigger fan of Dylan than most, this really isn't a close call for me - CATP.
Planet Waves (1,7) vs Holland (36,20)
Similar to our first matchup, this would have been much easier for me a few years ago, but I'm still going with Holland...barely. As with many of these, there's a totally different feel between these albums, but I think Holland is more impressive and interesting overall.
Before The Flood (3,8) vs In Concert (25,25)
I think Dylan's live album is more exciting and the highs are just as high (actually, higher), but top to bottom In Concert wins this one fairly easy for me. The lesser Band tracks (IMO), well, I'm just not interested in. And, some of the instrumentation (e.g. the SNYTH!), is even more dated/distracting than anything on In Concert.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 2, 2020 17:12:35 GMT
You just used up a month's worth of Beach Boys v Everybody Else thread fodder! John Wesley Harding (2,1) vs. Friends (126,13) Friends, but not by much Nashville Skyline (3,1) vs. 20/20 (68,3) 20/20 Self Portrait (4,1) vs Sunflower (151,29) Sunflower by far. New Morning (7,1) vs Surf's Up (29,15) Surf's Up by miles and miles Dylan (17, - ) vs Carl & the Passions - So Tough (50,25) CATP Planet Waves (1,7) vs Holland (36,20) Hmmm. Tougher. Probably Planet Waves by a hair. Before The Flood (3,8) vs In Concert (25,25) Tie (i don't care much for either) After the fact, I'm surprised by how much I lean BBs. I think if you'd taken almost any other era, I suspect it would have been closer to even or leaned Dylan's way.
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Post by B.E. on Jul 2, 2020 17:24:47 GMT
You just used up a month's worth of Beach Boys v Everybody Else thread fodder! Yup, I snuck it in over here. I've got a bunch of other ideas for the proper thread. Perhaps in the coming days or weeks I'll settle on a few... New Morning (7,1) vs Surf's Up (29,15) Surf's Up by miles and miles I was expecting a swift and decisive rebuttal! Planet Waves (1,7) vs Holland (36,20) Hmmm. Tougher. Probably Planet Waves by a hair. You know, before long, I think it's gonna be Planet Waves for me too. I really need to be in a specific mood to listen to Holland; whereas, I can put on Planet Waves and enjoy it at just about any time (including on repeat). After the fact, I'm surprised by how much I lean BBs. I think if you'd taken almost any other era, I suspect it would have been closer to even or leaned Dylan's way. I think I'll do just that. Not right now, but soon. It was fun to be quick about it, and not get too bogged down relistening to things.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 2, 2020 17:26:31 GMT
On my Planet Waves v Holland decision, it actually says more about how nearly ambivalent I am toward both of those albums than it is a strong vote for Planet Waves.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 2, 2020 21:42:49 GMT
John Wesley Harding (2,1) vs. Friends (126,13)
- Both overrated albums. I fail to see the greatness in the John Wesley Harding songs, production, and performance. Brian was completing his/the band's career suicide with Friends, but the album does contain some good songs and vocals. Friends is 13 minutes shorter than John Wesley Harding but I'll give it the edge because of the songwriting.
Nashville Skyline (3,1) vs. 20/20 (68,3)
- "Lay Lady Lay" is my all-time favorite Dylan song, but I find the rest of the Nashville Skyline songs to be only average to good. 20/20 is a great album - yes, GREAT - and allows all of the Beach Boys to shine. I don't care if the musical styles are "all over the place". 20/20 wins this one easily.
Self Portrait (4,1) vs Sunflower (151,29)
- Sunflower easily, but look at the difference in the charts results. Jeez...
New Morning (7,1) vs Surf's Up (29,15)
- I like New Morning but it's overrated, both the songs and vocals. It does give you somewhat of a homey, outdoorsy, cold AND cozy, out-in-the-sticks feeling. I go to New Morning for that. Other than the closing trifecta and "Disney Girls", I'm not the biggest fan of Surf's Up. Now, you give me "Lady", "4th Of July", and "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live again, and Surf's Up goes from a borderline good album to a great album. How could those three songs go unreleased on BB albums...This one's close but I give the edge to Surf's Up thanks to the closing three songs.
Dylan (17, - ) vs Carl & the Passions - So Tough (50,25)
- I like "Sarah Jane" a lot and "Lily Of The West" is an all-timer for me. The rest of the album? Meh. CATP is a big woulda/shoulda/coulda, but it has a handful of really good songs, highlighted by the Dennis Wilson classic, "Cuddle Up". CATP easily.
Planet Waves (1,7) vs Holland (36,20)
- Planet Waves is one of those Dylan albums that I rarely listen to. I think the production really let "Forever Young" down. I like "Wedding Song" very much but the other songs don't do much for me. Holland makes you work to enjoy it because Brian and Dennis aren't on it vocally (other than a few seconds) - and you better listen closely. Holland is a good but not great album. There are some quality songs on it. "Leaving This Town" brings it down and they should've included "We Got Love". However, Holland wins this one.
Before The Flood (3,8) vs In Concert (25,25)
- If you just went by tracklists, Before The Flood would win easily. However, Dylan was in one of his phases vocally, and the songs suffer because of it. Also, some of the performances are a bit rushed and in your face. I'm glad Dylan was rocking and performing with the band, but there's something not quite clicking. The tracklist for In Concert suffers because of the incorrect decision to feature so many Holland tracks. "Help Me Rhonda" is ruined and Al's singing on some other songs is so bad. No Brian Wilson, no Dennis Wilson, and not a lot of Mike; it's hard to believe so many fans like this album. There are some real aces on In Concert, some great drumming by Ricky, and some interesting other song choices. In Concert gets the edge here but not by much.
A clean sweep for The Beach Boys, even as Brian Wilson was fading away.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 2, 2020 23:45:16 GMT
If you're like me, which is to say maybe with strange media habits and priorities, you might enjoy watching this nearly hour-long, poor-quality 1985 interview with Bob Dylan purportedly about his latest (pretty bad) album Empire Burlesque.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 12, 2020 19:45:30 GMT
Okay, after Triplicate broke my will months ago, I finally finished my Dylan quest and listened to Rough and Rowdy Ways. I pretty much agree with SJS' posts back in June, and I'm surprised he listened 3 times. For me, once is enough for a long while. I even broke it down into 3 separate listening sessions due to its length. I think the standout for me is "Crossing the Rubicon", but I'd still only rate it a 7.5/10. I actually got more enjoyment out of simply reading the lyrics to a few of the songs than listening to them. Consequently, I think the praise for this album is ridiculous. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate it. I wouldn't even say I dislike it. I just feel great indifference. So, to see critics and fans rate it so much higher than the majority of his 2000s work (and beyond), is hard for me to wrap my brain around. I'd rather listen to Tempest or Together Through Life, let alone Love and Theft. To me, Rough and Rowdy Ways and Modern Times (sorry, Kapitan!) might be the two most boring non-standards Dylan albums. (Granted, as stated, this is after only one full listen.)
Edit: The other songs that I (kinda) liked most were "I've Made Up My Mind To Give Myself To You", "Goodbye Jimmy Reed", "My Own Version Of You", and "False Prophet".
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