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Post by kds on Sept 21, 2020 13:14:18 GMT
Bump. I watched this Ozzy doc over the weekend. If you've never seen any of the previous docs on Ozzy's life, it's worth checking out, but having seen them all, I found it a little underwhelming. The usual key moments were mentions, although surprisingly there was no mention of the infamous accusation of subliminal messages in "Suicide Solution." Also, disappointing, there were zero mentions of Ozzy's reunions with Black Sabbath.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 21, 2020 13:45:26 GMT
Bump. I watched this Ozzy doc over the weekend. If you've never seen any of the previous docs on Ozzy's life, it's worth checking out, but having seen them all, I found it a little underwhelming. The usual key moments were mentions, although surprisingly there was no mention of the infamous accusation of subliminal messages in "Suicide Solution." Also, disappointing, there were zero mentions of Ozzy's reunions with Black Sabbath. I didn't know if you caught it but ex-Ozzy and Uriah Heep drummer, Lee Kerslake passed away:
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 21, 2020 13:48:18 GMT
Also, disappointing, there were zero mentions of Ozzy's reunions with Black Sabbath. That's very interesting. I wonder why that is. My 100% speculative guess is that it's just a cleaner, less embarrassing story to tell it as "he was in this great band, then he went solo" than to have all the back-and-forth of retirements and reunions and such.
As for the suicide controversy, I wonder whether that was just a dated concept. People took that nonsense* seriously in the "satanic panic" of the 80s, but I don't think people give it a lot of credence anymore. Probably doesn't warrant a mention.
*Just to be clear, obviously I don't mean concern over suicide is nonsense: it's anything but. I mean specifically the ridiculous claims of that era that music was a key driver of suicide, that there were subliminal backward messages, and so on. That stuff was ABSOLUTELY nonsense.
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Post by kds on Sept 21, 2020 13:49:50 GMT
Bump. I watched this Ozzy doc over the weekend. If you've never seen any of the previous docs on Ozzy's life, it's worth checking out, but having seen them all, I found it a little underwhelming. The usual key moments were mentions, although surprisingly there was no mention of the infamous accusation of subliminal messages in "Suicide Solution." Also, disappointing, there were zero mentions of Ozzy's reunions with Black Sabbath. I didn't know if you caught it but ex-Ozzy and Uriah Heep drummer, Lee Kerslake passed away:
I did. I actually posted about his death previously. I can't recall how long ago, but there was a false death report on him probably a year ago (?). It's a pity how he was treated by the Osbourne camp. Kerslake and Bob Daisley played drums on bass on both of Ozzy's first two solo albums, neither are credited on the second - Diary of a Madman. In the early 00s, the drums and bass for both albums were actually re-recorded when the albums were re-released. I do believe the original parts have been restored on later reissues.
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Post by kds on Sept 21, 2020 13:54:27 GMT
Also, disappointing, there were zero mentions of Ozzy's reunions with Black Sabbath. That's very interesting. I wonder why that is. My 100% speculative guess is that it's just a cleaner, less embarrassing story to tell it as "he was in this great band, then he went solo" than to have all the back-and-forth of retirements and reunions and such.
As for the suicide controversy, I wonder whether that was just a dated concept. People took that nonsense* seriously in the "satanic panic" of the 80s, but I don't think people give it a lot of credence anymore. Probably doesn't warrant a mention.
*Just to be clear, obviously I don't mean concern over suicide is nonsense: it's anything but. I mean specifically the ridiculous claims of that era that music was a key driver of suicide, that there were subliminal backward messages, and so on. That stuff was ABSOLUTELY nonsense.
I guess there were time considerations too that prevented mention of the several different Sabbath reunions (1985, 1992, 1997-1999, 2001-2005, 2011-2017). I thought the "subliminal message" thing was worth a mention as it's all part of how notorious and scary Ozzy was in the 80s (they did mention the biting heads of the dove and bat, snorting ants, pissing on the Alamo, and Ozzy's attempt at murdering Sharon), which made his transformation into lovable reality TV Dad more endearing.
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Post by jk on Oct 7, 2020 20:21:00 GMT
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Post by kds on Oct 21, 2020 12:13:24 GMT
As recently as a few years ago, this news could have made me recoil in horror. And the reactions on the various hard rock / metal pages I follow have been quite predictable. But, nowadays, the way I see it, if a pop tart like Miley can do a Metallica covers album, maybe she gets some pop fans to give more guitar oriented heavy music a try. ultimateclassicrock.com/miley-cyrus-metallica-album/
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 12:34:12 GMT
Interesting. Bet she knows who Van Halen was.
I'll say this for Miley: she's got a pretty decent voice and has done a broad range of material, ranging from tween pop to psychedelic rock with the Flaming Lips to pure country to oversexed dance stuff. Growing up in the house of a crossover musician was bound to have some benefits.
Can't say I've ever particularly liked her music--maybe a track or two here and there--and her (inevitable, it seems, for former teen stars) petulant sexpot phase of 7-8 years ago was tedious and embarrassing, but there are worse jokes in the industry than being who she seems to be now.
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Post by kds on Oct 21, 2020 12:48:30 GMT
Interesting. Bet she knows who Van Halen was.
I'll say this for Miley: she's got a pretty decent voice and has done a broad range of material, ranging from tween pop to psychedelic rock with the Flaming Lips to pure country to oversexed dance stuff. Growing up in the house of a crossover musician was bound to have some benefits.
Can't say I've ever particularly liked her music--maybe a track or two here and there--and her (inevitable, it seems, for former teen stars) petulant sexpot phase of 7-8 years ago was tedious and embarrassing, but there are worse jokes in the industry than being who she seems to be now.
It's kind of sad that the era of Cardi B, Lizzo, and Billie Eilish almost makes be pine for the days of Miley, Katy Perry, and Lady Gaga. I think the highest compliment I can give to anything I've ever heard from Cyrus is "tolerable," which is more than I can say for Cardi, Lizzo, and Eilish. But, I've noticed that when some of those pop tarts actually do something outside of disposable pop, it's pretty decent. Fergie is a great example. I've heard her cover Heart and do an original song with Slash, and she was great. Much better than the shitty vocals on something like....ugh.....Fergilicious.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 13:03:01 GMT
For me, there are a few points that usually make all the difference in the world: can you play an instrument; can you (really) sing; and can you write music?
You don't have to do all of those things, but at least one and ideally two. If that's the case, I can still quite easily dislike your music, but I'll respect you much more. If it's obvious that you're there to dance, to look good, to be seen more than heard, then I haven't got the time of day for you. (This doesn't just go for female pop stars, to be clear. There are plenty of talentless guys who serve as eye candy too.)
So Lady Gaga is one where I say, OK, you're at least talented. Good for you. Miley is in that arena. So are Taylor Swift and Megan Trainor. Not saying their music is always (or often) good, but they are musicians. So they get credit. Beyonce is in that range for me too. But Cardi B, Megan Thee Stallion, Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, Billie Eilish? Ugh.
(It's what makes Lizzo so annoying. She is actually musically capable, too. Just reaches almost unprecedented levels of annoying.)
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 13:13:25 GMT
I should add, I will give Eilish this bit of credit: at least she wasn't out there selling her body. Her gimmick is something else. I appreciate that. Usually girls and young women in pop music fall between sexually suggestive and blatant to sell themselves, and she has done what she has done in layers of baggy clothes.
Granted, I don't remotely understand what makes her music appealing, either. But that's no problem: the kids can knock themselves out with it while I shout at them to get off my lawn.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 21, 2020 13:25:05 GMT
I'll say this for Miley: she's got a pretty decent voice and has done a broad range of material, ranging from tween pop to psychedelic rock with the Flaming Lips to pure country to oversexed dance stuff. Growing up in the house of a crossover musician was bound to have some benefits.
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Post by kds on Oct 21, 2020 13:40:17 GMT
For me, there are a few points that usually make all the difference in the world: can you play an instrument; can you (really) sing; and can you write music?
You don't have to do all of those things, but at least one and ideally two. If that's the case, I can still quite easily dislike your music, but I'll respect you much more. If it's obvious that you're there to dance, to look good, to be seen more than heard, then I haven't got the time of day for you. (This doesn't just go for female pop stars, to be clear. There are plenty of talentless guys who serve as eye candy too.)
So Lady Gaga is one where I say, OK, you're at least talented. Good for you. Miley is in that arena. So are Taylor Swift and Megan Trainor. Not saying their music is always (or often) good, but they are musicians. So they get credit. Beyonce is in that range for me too. But Cardi B, Megan Thee Stallion, Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, Billie Eilish? Ugh.
(It's what makes Lizzo so annoying. She is actually musically capable, too. Just reaches almost unprecedented levels of annoying.)
I'd agree with all these points. Although, as much as I find her music to be terrible, Ariana Grande does seem to have some pipes, but from what I've heard from her, she too often resorts to annoying talk singing. Maybe Lizzo realizes that in 2020 (or 2019, when she broke), you really don't have to try so hard to be popular.
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Post by kds on Oct 21, 2020 13:41:05 GMT
I should add, I will give Eilish this bit of credit: at least she wasn't out there selling her body. Her gimmick is something else. I appreciate that. Usually girls and young women in pop music fall between sexually suggestive and blatant to sell themselves, and she has done what she has done in layers of baggy clothes.
Granted, I don't remotely understand what makes her music appealing, either. But that's no problem: the kids can knock themselves out with it while I shout at them to get off my lawn.
Give her time, she's young.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 21, 2020 13:46:19 GMT
I should add, I will give Eilish this bit of credit: at least she wasn't out there selling her body. Her gimmick is something else. I appreciate that. Usually girls and young women in pop music fall between sexually suggestive and blatant to sell themselves, and she has done what she has done in layers of baggy clothes.
Granted, I don't remotely understand what makes her music appealing, either. But that's no problem: the kids can knock themselves out with it while I shout at them to get off my lawn.
Give her time, she's young. Honestly if she takes to it when she's older, I couldn't care less. Once you're an actual adult--and I don't mean just turned 18, which is where I think she is--you can do what you want with your sexuality. But I find it beyond creepy that the entertainment industry "nudges" girls and young women into heavily sexualized contexts.
Obviously people that age have their own sexualities to explore and work through, but for most of us that's done in private. For these women, it is in front of the world, often including older men, and it is miles apart from what strikes me as healthy for them (or their young-girl fans). But it has become so common for the child stars of the Disney ilk to be repackaged right around their legal coming of age as hypersexual, it's a trope or cliche. They do it under the guise of Janet Jackson's old "Control" theme--"I can do what I want to do ... now I'm all grown up." But forgive me if I don't believe that your average 17-to-19-year-old pop star fully grasps her own image and career, much less controls it. (Ditto for the guys, but I don't think the industry sexualizes them in the same way.)
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