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Post by Kapitan on Aug 6, 2020 12:42:41 GMT
I totally agree with your last comment on QR, and that is really my point. (Though apparently we disagree about how good their best few songs were.) But I literally mean that their catalogue, other than the hits, is mostly disposable. Not like 25% great, 50% strong, 15% weak, 10% bad, but like 4 songs great and the rest mediocre or worse.
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Post by kds on Aug 6, 2020 12:56:53 GMT
Even though I haven't listened to them in awhile, I tend to feel the same about Ratt. Although they were a notch above QR
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 8, 2020 20:23:14 GMT
I relistened to Dokken's Under Lock and Key yesterday, and while I think it tops Tooth and Nail, I still don't think it's much to write home about. To test whether Ratt seemed stronger, I listened to several songs off of each of several '80s albums, and I would lean Ratt's way for songwriting and overall finished product.
However, mostly I came out of this exercise stronger in my belief that they were both second- or third-tier hard rock bands.
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Post by kds on Aug 9, 2020 19:01:58 GMT
To each their own, and your opinion is definitely the majority one. But I'll take Dokken over Ratt any day and twice on Sunday.
I tend to think of Dokken in the same way I do Europe and Kix from that era, as bands who probably deserved more acclaim than they got.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 9, 2020 19:04:37 GMT
I'd agree with you on the latter two. Though I remember being very disappointed in Europe's Out of This World ... I would have to revisit that. But as for The Final Countdown, definitely agree.
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Post by kds on Aug 12, 2020 16:04:51 GMT
The Final Countdown is an album that I think gets unfairly maligned due to it's title track. And I honestly believe a healthy portion of the hatred that the title track gets is for the simple fact that it was immensely popular (a phenomenon I was considering starting a separate thread on).
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 12, 2020 16:07:45 GMT
I agree. Very good album for the style, and those guys were really good musicians (as their almost semi-proggy history showed).
Good thread idea, too. Nothing makes people hate something more than it having been popular.
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Post by kds on Aug 26, 2020 15:48:41 GMT
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2020 12:54:03 GMT
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 27, 2020 13:03:04 GMT
Ahhh, Pay Per View. How all my "rich" friends got to see things like Wrestlemania while we regular kids had to just wait to find out what happened (and hope someone taped it on their VCRs), or rent it later when it was released to VHS.
I didn't know Van Halen did a mid-90s special. Of course, I'd use the term "special" loosely by that point, myself.
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2020 13:10:51 GMT
Ahhh, Pay Per View. How all my "rich" friends got to see things like Wrestlemania while we regular kids had to just wait to find out what happened (and hope someone taped it on their VCRs), or rent it later when it was released to VHS.
I didn't know Van Halen did a mid-90s special. Of course, I'd use the term "special" loosely by that point, myself.
I remember seeing advertisements for it back then. But, this was just two years ago Live Right Here Right Now was released on home video. And I doubt people who paid $30-$40 for that (because, for some reason, music VHSs were insanely expensive) would plunk down money to watch a similar show. On another note, I've not heard any updates on Eddie's health in months. Before he got cancer again, he seemingly had no motivation to do new music or tour. I'd love to see Van Halen finally start releasing something from the vault.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 27, 2020 13:16:23 GMT
Definitely, if they aren't going to be an active band anymore--and they sure haven't been, and don't seem likely to become one again--why not capitalize on their legacy? They seem not to have really ever participated in the deluxe reissue, unreleased music, etc., kind of thing that has become so popular in the past 25 years.
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2020 13:28:39 GMT
Definitely, if they aren't going to be an active band anymore--and they sure haven't been, and don't seem likely to become one again--why not capitalize on their legacy? They seem not to have really ever participated in the deluxe reissue, unreleased music, etc., kind of thing that has become so popular in the past 25 years.
Nope, their catalog was reissued, but no bonus tracks. No live concerts, no unreleased songs. And they say being a Beach Boys fan is frustrating. It still amazes me that David Lee Roth is widely considered one of the great frontmen of all time, but there are zero live documents of the original Van Halen. That's mind blowing.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 27, 2020 13:48:59 GMT
It still amazes me that David Lee Roth is widely considered one of the great frontmen of all time, but there are zero live documents of the original Van Halen. That's mind blowing. Having of course seen all the videos and numerous live clips online, I hadn't thought about that. But that IS amazing. It isn't as if there are no tapes of them in their heyday.
They may be one of the biggest bands that hasn't had the full treatment: extensive liner notes, outtakes, alternate takes, unreleased songs, companion concert discs, etc. Who else of that stature hasn't gone that route? When you consider how many (in my opinion) totally disposable bands have put out deluxe sets, the fact that arguably the most important hard rock band of the late 70s through late 80s lets their original catalog speak for itself is remarkable. In one weird way, it's admirable, like "our music is our music." But the commercial opportunities being missed are enough to make the likes of Gene Simmons or Mike Love roll over in their graves...and they're not even dead yet.
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Post by kds on Aug 27, 2020 14:03:27 GMT
It still amazes me that David Lee Roth is widely considered one of the great frontmen of all time, but there are zero live documents of the original Van Halen. That's mind blowing. Having of course seen all the videos and numerous live clips online, I hadn't thought about that. But that IS amazing. It isn't as if there are no tapes of them in their heyday.
They may be one of the biggest bands that hasn't had the full treatment: extensive liner notes, outtakes, alternate takes, unreleased songs, companion concert discs, etc. Who else of that stature hasn't gone that route? When you consider how many (in my opinion) totally disposable bands have put out deluxe sets, the fact that arguably the most important hard rock band of the late 70s through late 80s lets their original catalog speak for itself is remarkable. In one weird way, it's admirable, like "our music is our music." But the commercial opportunities being missed are enough to make the likes of Gene Simmons or Mike Love roll over in their graves...and they're not even dead yet.
I can't think of any bigger bands that haven't had that treatment. I know it took a long time for Led Zeppelin to come around, and open their vaults. Maybe Eddie and Alex will one day. There are some shows from the 1982 Diver Down tour that were popular on the bootleg market back in the day, as well as the US Festival from 1983. But, I don't see that one coming out since David apparently partied too much prior to the show, and it wasn't his finest hour. But, not even anything from the recent tours, other than that CD set from 2015. Speaking of VH, I found this amusing. Wolfgang Van Halen, voice of reason, on the Sam v Dave debate “They both kick ass. The war is dumb. Enjoy whatever you want and don’t hate someone else if they don’t like what you like. The same guy wrote the music too, so you’re doing yourself a disservice for not at the very least checking the other side out.” www.loudersound.com/news/wolfgang-van-halen-sammy-hagar-and-david-lee-roth-both-kick-ass
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