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Post by Kapitan on Feb 9, 2024 16:28:54 GMT
I like the idea of threads to tie in to the Good Timin' pod, as it can be fun to have everyone considering the same subject (especially with no new music to focus on). Their newest episode is on songs the hosts dislike and/or hot takes. So, what are yours? Any songs you really dislike? Or, do you have any hot takes? (I always think people's hot takes are interesting, because a good percentage of the time, I think they're pretty mainstream--or at least not too rare--takes, and I wonder what it is that makes people think otherwise!) And of course, don't forget to check out the guys' opinions on their pod. That new episode is here.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 9, 2024 16:35:27 GMT
My initial thought for a hot take was partly inspired by lonelysummer posting in the album thread for Imagination, when he said something about it being odd that people always seemed to expect something odd from Brian. ( You can view it here.) My hot take (though I have said it before): Brian Wilson's music was overwhelmingly NOT outsider music, NOT avant garde. He was overwhelmingly NOT trying to make music that was wildly outside the bounds of normalcy. Brian Wilson was mostly a square, and that included his musical tastes. He was quirky and creative, and so yes, inventive. But his genius showed in small ways, little twists on otherwise normal music. Aside from 1966-67 and 1977 or so, most of what he did was not "crazy," and this wasn't because the band was holding him back, threatening him about fucking with the formula. It's because his taste in music was pretty normal, or even square.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 9, 2024 19:45:16 GMT
My initial thought for a hot take was partly inspired by lonelysummer posting in the album thread for Imagination, when he said something about it being odd that people always seemed to expect something odd from Brian. ( You can view it here.) My hot take (though I have said it before): Brian Wilson's music was overwhelmingly NOT outsider music, NOT avant garde. He was overwhelmingly NOT trying to make music that was wildly outside the bounds of normalcy. Brian Wilson was mostly a square, and that included his musical tastes. He was quirky and creative, and so yes, inventive. But his genius showed in small ways, little twists on otherwise normal music. Aside from 1966-67 and 1977 or so, most of what he did was not "crazy," and this wasn't because the band was holding him back, threatening him about fucking with the formula. It's because his taste in music was pretty normal, or even square. This is true. I remember hearing an interview with Brian circa 1977 where he talked about his love of Frank Sinatra. If any non-rock performer could be considered cool, it would be Ol' Blue Eyes, but it shocked me...and stunned me...yes, I was shocked and stunned that Brian, in 1977, was talking about Sinatra, Nice and Easy. The Four Freshmen were not exactly a hip group, either. Brian always aimed solidly for the mainstream. He wanted his songs to be played on top 40 radio, like his heroes Chuck Berry, the Everly Brothers, Fats Domino, Little Richard. But because Pet Sounds was groundbreaking, because Smile was different, this whole narrative developed that Brian wanted to make weird music, and if it wasn't wierd or strange, the Beach Boys must have been holding him back. So, in 1998, Imagination makes perfect sense to me for music to come from an older Brian. I remember my girlfriend seeing the cover of Pulse magazine (from Tower Records) in 1995, and saying "Brian and Van Dyke look OLD!" And my response was "well they ARE old!" I wonder if she feels that way now? lol
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 10, 2024 0:38:10 GMT
10 Disliked Beach Boys' Songs
1. "Ten Little Indians" - The early incarnation and image of the group could've and should've been cool. Mike, Dennis, and Dave all had an attitude. They had swagger. They had...a look. Then why was Surfin' Safari so loopy and goofy - some of the strangest subject matter in the catalogue? Brian? Nik Venet? Anyway, "Ten Little Indians" is a stupid song. It's a children's song for chrissakes. It has nothing to do with surfing or rock & roll or being a teen/young adult. It's wimpy. And they actually chose it for a single!
2. "Denny's Drums" - You can lump all of the comedy/skits/spoken word stuff into this song. Look, I can understand filler, especially when you're cranking out as much material as Brian Wilson was. But why a track like this? Even for the teenyboppers who were into Dennis - was this enjoyable or fulfilling? Did this...song...excite them? What is the redeeming quality of "Denny's Drums"? If they were looking for filler, how about a cover? If they were looking to feature the good-looking drummer Denny Wilson, why not a cover with a lead vocal by him? This is a waste of space on a Beach Boys' album.
3. "Auld Lang Syne" - It's bad enough that Brian tried to put us to sleep with Side 2 of The Beach Boys' Christmas Album, but then he tried to finish us off with this mistake. Brian, did you have something against fun, fast Christmas songs? I don't like "Auld Lang Syne" to begin with, but this acappella take is grating (as are a few Beach Boys' acappella songs BTW - more on that later). Of all the holiday songs they could've chosen... And, do I have to mention Brian's leaving Dennis's flub in?
4. "Medley: I Get Around/Little Deuce Coupe" - I don't like Party! and this song contributes significantly to that opinion. Never mind that they ruined two iconic Beach Boys' songs. It just isn't funny. And that goes for some of the other humorous Party! songs. Sometimes I don't find the guys funny when I'm supposed to (more on that later, too).
5. "Mama Says" - Why, Brian, why? Why extract just this part? You really were spiraling weren't you? Another grating song. Shouty. Not necessary. No, I don't think it was fun(ny) or cool or psychedelic or whatever it was supposed to be. Such a disappointing album closer.
6. "Take A Load Off Your Feet" - No intro. Terrible lead vocal. Boring track. Irredeemable lyrics - a song about friggin' feet! Anything else? I realize Surf's Up was this serious album and maybe it could've used a less-serious, "light" interlude. But not this piece of crap. To think "Take A Load Off Your Feet" made the cut and "4th Of July", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again", and maybe even "Lady" didn't. Ugh.
7. "Leaving This Town" - I can say a lot of critical things about this song but the most negative (to me anyway) is that it might be the "least Beach Boys-like" song in the catalogue. I want to hear Beach Boys' music on Beach Boys' albums. I don't care for the lead vocal. The song is boring. It's too long, and again, it took the place of better songs. In Concert compounded the problem by including it and taking up valuable space on that album. Leaving this song for another one...
8. "Shortenin' Bread" - This band just did not know how to assemble an album. First, they ended up with an inferior version of the song. It's lifeless and Dennis sounds bad. Why not use the better, Adult Child (?) version with Brian singing the "Mama's little baby loves shortenin' bread..." part and the prominent moog bass. But they shouldn't have used the song in the first place. The band decided on a more mature, contemporary album, and what song do they pull out of the vault? A children's song. Where was James Guercio? Walter Yetnikoff? Carl Wilson? You can't blame Mike Love for this one. Oh, and "Shortenin' Bread" gets the award for the most confusing and misplaced album closer of all. Never mind that it shouldn't have been on the album in the first place, but please don't close the album with it. It made no sense.
9. "Male Ego" - There are very few Beach Boys' songs that are embarrassing. Some are bad (see above) but not necessarily embarrassing. "Male Ego" is embarrassing. "See something looking hot and sweet". "Chasing ladies and having a ball". "Don't know why we love to chase those tasty ladies". "You smell nice, what's your name". Grimace-inducing. Causes wincing. Head-shaking, trying to get it out of my head. Those are the effects this song has on me. How low could they stoop, this once great songwriting team. Never mind the music which ain't that great either. Brian was writing this stuff in high school. Now, Brian is Landy-manic shouting. Mike is creepy. Yuk.
10. "Summer Of Love" - This song usually gets my vote for the all-time worst Beach Boys' song. The Beach Boys always did well at singing various genre of music. They could copy it and make it their own. They could play old-time rock and roll. They could sing Four Freshmen arrangements. They could sing folk songs. They could do Christmas music. The could do Spector. They could be psychedelic. They could do hard rock. They could even do disco music! However, they couldn't do rap or hip hop. You have to draw the line there. Mike embarrassed himself, and in turn, embarrassed the group. Shame on the group (whoever they were at that time) for allowing this song to be recorded and released. I don't wanna hear about Mike getting his way and the others giving in/giving up and not wanting to confront him. This song never should've happened and they are all to blame for it. They took the money didn't they?
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 10, 2024 3:50:50 GMT
My list is not long or precise; I don't think much about the ones I don't like. Dierdrie - it's just too cutesy, right down to the name. I'm more the morose, down in the dumps Tears in the Morning kind of guy.
Take a Load Off Your Feet - it stinks!
Transcendental Meditation - a song with this title should be calming, peaceful. It's got a clashing kind of sound, like some kind of avant garde jazz.
How She Boogalooed It - on a nearly perfect album, this thing stands out. It disrupts the mood. It's probably okay on it's own, but in context, it's weak.
I'm going for songs on otherwise excellent albums. I won't step into the minefield that is Summer in Paradise, or the much loved/detested Love You.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 10, 2024 13:41:23 GMT
My list is not long or precise; I don't think much about the ones I don't like. Dierdrie - it's just too cutesy, right down to the name. I'm more the morose, down in the dumps Tears in the Morning kind of guy. Transcendental Meditation - a song with this title should be calming, peaceful. It's got a clashing kind of sound, like some kind of avant garde jazz. I've come around a little bit with "Deidre", but "Tears In The Morning" almost made my dislikes list. The ending of the song - the "I'm missing you" line, the harmonies, and the haunting piano - saves it.
There's something about "Transcendental Meditation" that I always liked. I've read where people say Brian was "putting on" in typical BW fashion, but I'm not so sure. Maybe he just wanted to celebrate(!) TM and this is the way he felt about it. Not all TM songs have to be...soft.
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jmayer43
Denny's Drums
Posts: 47
Likes: 28
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Post by jmayer43 on Feb 10, 2024 16:55:56 GMT
10 Disliked Beach Boys' Songs
1. "Ten Little Indians" - The early incarnation and image of the group could've and should've been cool. Mike, Dennis, and Dave all had an attitude. They had swagger. They had...a look. Then why was Surfin' Safari so loopy and goofy - some of the strangest subject matter in the catalogue? Brian? Nik Venet? Anyway, "Ten Little Indians" is a stupid song. It's a children's song for chrissakes. It has nothing to do with surfing or rock & roll or being a teen/young adult. It's wimpy. And they actually chose it for a single!
2. "Denny's Drums" - You can lump all of the comedy/skits/spoken word stuff into this song. Look, I can understand filler, especially when you're cranking out as much material as Brian Wilson was. But why a track like this? Even for the teenyboppers who were into Dennis - was this enjoyable or fulfilling? Did this...song...excite them? What is the redeeming quality of "Denny's Drums"? If they were looking for filler, how about a cover? If they were looking to feature the good-looking drummer Denny Wilson, why not a cover with a lead vocal by him? This is a waste of space on a Beach Boys' album.
3. "Auld Lang Syne" - It's bad enough that Brian tried to put us to sleep with Side 2 of The Beach Boys' Christmas Album, but then he tried to finish us off with this mistake. Brian, did you have something against fun, fast Christmas songs? I don't like "Auld Lang Syne" to begin with, but this acappella take is grating (as are a few Beach Boys' acappella songs BTW - more on that later). Of all the holiday songs they could've chosen... And, do I have to mention Brian's leaving Dennis's flub in?
4. "Medley: I Get Around/Little Deuce Coupe" - I don't like Party! and this song contributes significantly to that opinion. Never mind that they ruined two iconic Beach Boys' songs. It just isn't funny. And that goes for some of the other humorous Party! songs. Sometimes I don't find the guys funny when I'm supposed to (more on that later, too).
5. "Mama Says" - Why, Brian, why? Why extract just this part? You really were spiraling weren't you? Another grating song. Shouty. Not necessary. No, I don't think it was fun(ny) or cool or psychedelic or whatever it was supposed to be. Such a disappointing album closer.
6. "Take A Load Off Your Feet" - No intro. Terrible lead vocal. Boring track. Irredeemable lyrics - a song about friggin' feet! Anything else? I realize Surf's Up was this serious album and maybe it could've used a less-serious, "light" interlude. But not this piece of crap. To think "Take A Load Off Your Feet" made the cut and "4th Of July", "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again", and maybe even "Lady" didn't. Ugh.
7. "Leaving This Town" - I can say a lot of critical things about this song but the most negative (to me anyway) is that it might be the "least Beach Boys-like" song in the catalogue. I want to hear Beach Boys' music on Beach Boys' albums. I don't care for the lead vocal. The song is boring. It's too long, and again, it took the place of better songs. In Concert compounded the problem by including it and taking up valuable space on that album. Leaving this song for another one...
8. "Shortenin' Bread" - This band just did not know how to assemble an album. First, they ended up with an inferior version of the song. It's lifeless and Dennis sounds bad. Why not use the better, Adult Child (?) version with Brian singing the "Mama's little baby loves shortenin' bread..." part and the prominent moog bass. But they shouldn't have used the song in the first place. The band decided on a more mature, contemporary album, and what song do they pull out of the vault? A children's song. Where was James Guercio? Walter Yetnikoff? Carl Wilson? You can't blame Mike Love for this one. Oh, and "Shortenin' Bread" gets the award for the most confusing and misplaced album closer of all. Never mind that it shouldn't have been on the album in the first place, but please don't close the album with it. It made no sense.
9. "Male Ego" - There are very few Beach Boys' songs that are embarrassing. Some are bad (see above) but not necessarily embarrassing. "Male Ego" is embarrassing. "See something looking hot and sweet". "Chasing ladies and having a ball". "Don't know why we love to chase those tasty ladies". "You smell nice, what's your name". Grimace-inducing. Causes wincing. Head-shaking, trying to get it out of my head. Those are the effects this song has on me. How low could they stoop, this once great songwriting team. Never mind the music which ain't that great either. Brian was writing this stuff in high school. Now, Brian is Landy-manic shouting. Mike is creepy. Yuk.
10. "Summer Of Love" - This song usually gets my vote for the all-time worst Beach Boys' song. The Beach Boys always did well at singing various genre of music. They could copy it and make it their own. They could play old-time rock and roll. They could sing Four Freshmen arrangements. They could sing folk songs. They could do Christmas music. The could do Spector. They could be psychedelic. They could do hard rock. They could even do disco music! However, they couldn't do rap or hip hop. You have to draw the line there. Mike embarrassed himself, and in turn, embarrassed the group. Shame on the group (whoever they were at that time) for allowing this song to be recorded and released. I don't wanna hear about Mike getting his way and the others giving in/giving up and not wanting to confront him. This song never should've happened and they are all to blame for it. They took the money didn't they?
I agree with quite a few of these, although I am a Male Ego defender (stupid lyrics but catchy melody lol) and don’t really have a problem with Take A Load Off Your Feet, although I don’t think it fits great on Surf’s Up. My podcast co-host Reilly would strongly agree with you though; it’s one of his least favorite Beach Boys songs period! (He hates feet so the lyrics really bother him haha) My only gripe with your list is Leaving This Town being included… I really love that song and think it’s one of Ricky and Blondie’s strongest compositions. Yes, I agree with you that it doesn’t sound much like a Beach Boys song and I get your point about it not being the kind of song that you want to hear from the Beach Boys, but that’s honestly part of the appeal for me; it’s a very unique and different sounding track in their discography and I personally think it does fit really well on Holland. Is it a bit long? Yeah maybe, and I personally don’t care too much for the In Concert version either, but I think the original song is great. Love the lyrics too
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 10, 2024 16:59:25 GMT
I struggle with how I think of songs I dislike. For me, there are a lot of Beach Boys' songs I don't like, and so I don't listen to them. But to dislike seems to me like a more active feeling than the more passive ignoring of songs I don't like. It implies a kind of passion about those songs--and because I ignore the ones I don't like, I don't feel all that much passion about them. (Force them on me, and that would change.)
Songs I don't like are many on the first several albums and the two Love/Melcher albums.
Songs I dislike...? They almost have to be on albums I otherwise love (and so I hear them a lot), or songs that are just all over the place. So maybe "Our Favorite Recording Sessions," which along with (to a lesser degree) "Do You Remember" and "Carl's Big Chance," mars the brilliant All Summer Long. (At least "Bull Session" was at the end of the album, and thus easily omitted from every listen.)
Oh, and I recognize my distinction between don't like and dislike is my own little artificial creation/interpretation. So the whole post may be for naught.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 10, 2024 17:04:30 GMT
7. "Leaving This Town" - I can say a lot of critical things about this song but the most negative (to me anyway) is that it might be the "least Beach Boys-like" song in the catalogue. I want to hear Beach Boys' music on Beach Boys' albums. I don't care for the lead vocal. The song is boring. It's too long, and again, it took the place of better songs. In Concert compounded the problem by including it and taking up valuable space on that album. Leaving this song for another one... My only gripe with your list is Leaving This Town being included… I really love that song and think it’s one of Ricky and Blondie’s strongest compositions. Yes, I agree with you that it doesn’t sound much like a Beach Boys song and I get your point about it not being the kind of song that you want to hear from the Beach Boys, but that’s honestly part of the appeal for me; it’s a very unique and different sounding track in their discography and I personally think it does fit really well on Holland. Is it a bit long? Yeah maybe, and I personally don’t care too much for the In Concert version either, but I think the original song is great. Love the lyrics too I'm with jmayer43 on this. First and foremost, because whatever it sounds like, I like how it sounds! I totally agree that it didn't sound like classic Beach Boys music, but the Beach Boys changed their sounds often, and it did fit in quite comfortably with this early 70s Beach Boys, in my opinion ... if only for the fact that Blondie and Ricky were Beach Boys (and so reflexively it sounds like the Beach Boys. Also I hope that's the right use of "reflexively," as in the reflexive principle. If not, whoops, I look dumb [again].)! But also, the background voices fit the band's music of the era. One of these days I am going to redo an early 70s Beach Boys "prog-roots" album/playlist, leaning into Blondie and Ricky, but also Carl's and Dennis's stuff. I think it's a collection of music that a lot of non-Beach Boys classic rock fans would like.
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jmayer43
Denny's Drums
Posts: 47
Likes: 28
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Post by jmayer43 on Feb 10, 2024 17:06:09 GMT
My initial thought for a hot take was partly inspired by lonelysummer posting in the album thread for Imagination, when he said something about it being odd that people always seemed to expect something odd from Brian. ( You can view it here.) My hot take (though I have said it before): Brian Wilson's music was overwhelmingly NOT outsider music, NOT avant garde. He was overwhelmingly NOT trying to make music that was wildly outside the bounds of normalcy. Brian Wilson was mostly a square, and that included his musical tastes. He was quirky and creative, and so yes, inventive. But his genius showed in small ways, little twists on otherwise normal music. Aside from 1966-67 and 1977 or so, most of what he did was not "crazy," and this wasn't because the band was holding him back, threatening him about fucking with the formula. It's because his taste in music was pretty normal, or even square. I would say I agree with this, and even when Brian was being “crazy” like on some of the Love You era stuff (which I personally love) I don’t think he was trying to be quirky or different; I think he was just writing and recording what he wanted to and didn’t worry (or care) about what was popular or “trendy”. And honestly with more “normal” lyrics, cleaner vocals and less synth-heavy production, would Love You even be considered that “out there” musically? (That being said I don’t think I’d enjoy those songs near as much if you eliminated all of the things that make them “quirky”)
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Post by kds on Feb 11, 2024 17:54:54 GMT
Most of the songs I dislike have been mentioned. But, keeping with my not caring for Brian's quirkier moments, I'll add Mt. Vernon and Rio Grande.
As for hot takes, my fondness for Bruce's Nearest Faraway Place might qualify there.
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Post by B.E. on Feb 11, 2024 17:57:01 GMT
To borrow Kapitan's categorization...
Dislike: Denny's Drums Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson Our Favorite Recording Sessions Bull Sessions with Big Daddy Hey Little Tomboy Bells of Paris Here Comes the Night (1979) East Meets West I Do Love You Wipe Out Happy Endings Make It Big
and the majority of Summer in Paradise.
Don't Like: South Bay Surfer Carl's Big Chance Medley: I Get Around/Little Deuce Coupe The Nearest Faraway Place Everyone's In Love With You She's Got Rhythm Lady Liberty Problem Child
and the majority of Stars and Stripes.
Hot Takes: Farmer's Daughter Girl Don't Tell Me It's About Time Feel Flows
None of which I included above, but I do think are overrated.
Also, I suppose I could have included some of Smile in the "don't like" category (e.g. Great Shape, Barnyard, etc.)
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Post by B.E. on Feb 11, 2024 17:59:40 GMT
Most of the songs I dislike have been mentioned. But, keeping with my not caring for Brian's quirkier moments, I'll add Mt. Vernon and Rio Grande. Mt. Vernon, absolutely, but I'm not sure I consider "Rio Grande" quirky. Either way, I personally think it's great.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 11, 2024 20:28:31 GMT
I'm looking at these lists, and thinking "oh, I forgot about that POS".
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 12, 2024 12:42:03 GMT
I'm looking at these lists, and thinking "oh, I forgot about that POS". Yes, looking at some others' choices has motivated me to list 5 more:
"Boogie Woodie" - The early Beach Boys' instrumentals have grown on me over the years - but not this one. I really appreciate Brian Wilson's early rock and roll productions, but "Boogie Woodie" grates on me. It's so LOUD (why does it have to be so loud ) and sounds out of place on the Surfer Girl album. I always thought "Boogie Woodie" was mastered TOO LOUD on the various albums through the years. Just turn it down a notch. Please.
"Louie Louie" - Brian Wilson didn't produce many boring records, but this is one of them. And to think this happened in 1964 when Brian was doing some great things. Lifeless cover. I'm docking one point for Capitol Records putting "Louie Louie" on the 1966 Best Of The Beach Boys.
"Student Demonstration Time" - There isn't much (anything?) about this song that I like. Whenever it comes on I want to skip over it. The theme/lyrics are too staged (did Mike REALLY care?), and again, for some reason, this song was mastered soooo loud. Ugh. But, I think the biggest nuisance of all are the effects including the sirens and the effects on Mike's vocal. I wonder what Brian Wilson would've done if he produced this song.
"Talk To Me" - This song epitomizes all of bad things about 15 Big Ones. First, of all the oldies to choose, why "Talk To Me"? It's far from a great song to begin with. And, along those lines, why another ballad? There's too many on the album. But, the most confounding...issue...is Carl's vocal. With the exception of Al Jardine, there is just something wrong with all of the guys' lead vocals on 15 Big Ones. Sadly, on this song anyway, Carl doesn't sound quite right. Even he couldn't save this one.
"Happy Endings" - When I compiled my above list of disliked songs, I mentally went through all the albums one at a time to form the list. Obviously "Happy Endings" slipped through the cracks. This song is a disaster. I don't know what bothers me more, the fact that they decided on such a bad song, or the fact that they wasted Little Richard. Somehow Little Richard links up with The Beach Boys, and now you have one of the greatest rock & roll singers of all-time recording with one of the greatest rock & roll bands of all-time time. What was expected? What did the fans want? A classic, rollicking, rock & roll record. What did we get? A lifeless ballad. Only in the world of The Beach Boys...
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