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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 6, 2024 4:13:13 GMT
KZOK a year later, 1976. Attachments:
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 6, 2024 12:41:52 GMT
OK 102 and a half Great Music Weekend, 1975, Seattle. There are a couple Beach Boys songs on this list. So there was a time when progressive FM stations played the Boys - although not nearly as many BB tunes here as Zeppelin, Stones, Elton and Beatles. I checked your lists (my eyes are still recovering ) and I only saw two Beach Boys' songs - "Good Vibrations" and "California Saga". Did I miss any? Those two songs are both surprising. "Good Vibrations", while ahead of its time in 1966, seems a little pop-ish and "goodtime oldie" to be on those lists, and "California Saga" is too obscure, one of the most obscure on the lists. I appreciate your effort and enthusiasm in finding these lists and posting them, but I don't think it bolsters the argument too much that The Beach Boys were played on progressive FM radio stations. No Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, and just one Holland song? And, BTW, I wonder why they chose "California Saga" over "Sail On Sailor"?
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 6, 2024 20:32:06 GMT
OK 102 and a half Great Music Weekend, 1975, Seattle. There are a couple Beach Boys songs on this list. So there was a time when progressive FM stations played the Boys - although not nearly as many BB tunes here as Zeppelin, Stones, Elton and Beatles. I checked your lists (my eyes are still recovering ) and I only saw two Beach Boys' songs - "Good Vibrations" and "California Saga". Did I miss any? Those two songs are both surprising. "Good Vibrations", while ahead of its time in 1966, seems a little pop-ish and "goodtime oldie" to be on those lists, and "California Saga" is too obscure, one of the most obscure on the lists. I appreciate your effort and enthusiasm in finding these lists and posting them, but I don't think it bolsters the argument too much that The Beach Boys were played on progressive FM radio stations. No Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, and just one Holland song? And, BTW, I wonder why they chose "California Saga" over "Sail On Sailor"? Maybe I misunderstood the point. I thought you were saying that they weren't played on progressive FM AT ALL. No, based on these lists, they weren't played a lot, but they weren't completely ignored. I may have to check Billboard's FM Action charts, or whatever they were called.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 6, 2024 20:42:07 GMT
I checked your lists (my eyes are still recovering ) and I only saw two Beach Boys' songs - "Good Vibrations" and "California Saga". Did I miss any? Those two songs are both surprising. "Good Vibrations", while ahead of its time in 1966, seems a little pop-ish and "goodtime oldie" to be on those lists, and "California Saga" is too obscure, one of the most obscure on the lists. I appreciate your effort and enthusiasm in finding these lists and posting them, but I don't think it bolsters the argument too much that The Beach Boys were played on progressive FM radio stations. No Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, and just one Holland song? And, BTW, I wonder why they chose "California Saga" over "Sail On Sailor"? Maybe I misunderstood the point. I thought you were saying that they weren't played on progressive FM AT ALL. No, based on these lists, they weren't played a lot, but they weren't completely ignored. I may have to check Billboard's FM Action charts, or whatever they were called. Semantics . I wasn't insinuating their songs " weren't played at all on progressive FM". But I think we can agree that the Beach Boys' singles from 1970-present were mostly (overwhelmingly?) not featured on FM radio and their more progressive singles, as few as they were, basically bombed.
Yes, you can track down FM radio playlists and charts that might list a Beach Boys' song, but what is more relevant is how long the song...hung around. There's a very good chance the song was played a few times and discarded in a week's time. I can picture a Program Director or DJ hearing/playing a song like "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" and thinking, "WTF...This is the Beach Boys?...This is crap..." and putting it back on the pile.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 7, 2024 20:51:11 GMT
Just to expand on "River Song" a bit. Kapitan correctly noted that "River Song" didn't chart, but it wasn't even released in the U.S. It was released in the UK, the Netherlands, Australia, and Germany. That's two Dennis Wilson singles, and great ones at that - "Lady" and "River Song" - that mysteriously were not released in this country.
The follow-up single to "River Song", "You And I"/"Friday Night" was released in the U.S. (and just Canada ) and it did not chart either.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 8, 2024 4:23:40 GMT
Dennis on a Columbia label! Never seen that before!
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 8, 2024 12:14:21 GMT
Our first tournament matchup is over: "It's OK" doubled up "River Song," winning 6-3. Thank you for your comments and votes.
I'll post the next matchup later today.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 8, 2024 15:36:12 GMT
First-Round Matchup: “Sail On, Sailor” v. “Here Comes the Night” (’79)This matchup features two songs that were released as singles but failed to qualify for our Top 25 qualification for this thread. Both songs performed similarly, however, peaking in the 40s and thus qualifying as legitimate, if modest, hits. (It’s funny, as their reputations in 2024 could not be more different.) Both of these songs were nominated by multiple people for this tournament. The #7 seed in the matchup is “Sail On, Sailor,” written by Brian Wilson, Van Dyke Parks, Tandyn Almer, Ray Kennedy, Jack Rieley, and the kitchen sink. Three people nominated it: the song rated 10th, 7th, and had one unrated appearance on nomination lists. The song famously was a late edition to the Holland album after the label insisted it be tweaked to include something with better odds of becoming a hit single. The Chaplin-Fataar-Love collaboration “We Got Love” was dropped and “Sail On, Sailor” was added—and released as the album’s lead single. Released in February 1973, the single did not perform well. It peaked at #79. However, in March 1975, it was re-released during a lull in the band’s studio activity. (With the exception of the quirky and untimely Christmas single “Child of Winter” in December 1974, no new music had been released since the second Holland single, “California Saga: California,” in May 1973.) During this time, the group had seen tremendous success with reissues of old music, and their touring remained strong. For whatever reason, “Sail On, Sailor” did better the second time around, peaking at #49. The #10 seed is the 1979 disco remake of “Here Comes the Night,” written by Brian Wilson and Mike Love. Two people nominated it, with one person rating it 4th and one giving an unrated nomination. Its original iteration appeared on the 1967 album Wild Honey in a sparse arrangement typical of that album’s approach. However, the version in contention now is the 1979 disco version, which in many ways could not be more different in terms of arrangement and production than its previous incarnation. Bruce Johnston and Curt Becher produced the 1979 remake, because, according to Al Jardine in a 2000 interview with Ken Sharp of Goldmine, “Bruce has this idea to do the perfect disco record, which of course none of our fans wanted us to do. I like the original song, but this pandering to disco did not work. Curt Becher, who was really quite a producer and musician in his own right, it was really a labor of love for those guys. They wanted every note perfect, and it had to be right on the right beats per minute, mathematically created for disco. But that disco sound didn't suit the Beach Boys at all. ... It was a good lesson for us that pandering after fads does not make for a successful recording, no matter how good it is. And I have to say that it was technically damn good, [laughs] but you just have to follow your hear and not the fad.” Voting on this song is complicated by the fact that there isn’t a 1979 version—there are five 1979 versions: the album version; the 12” single version; the 12” instrumental edit; the long 7” single edit; and the short 7” single edit. (I have pasted the long version of the 7”, which runs about four-and-a-half minutes.) Often mocked by fans and critics alike, the song actually reached #44 on the Hot 100 in 1979. These two songs will be up for discussion and voting through Saturday, Feb. 10, with the polls closing at midnight on Sunday, Feb. 11.
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Post by carllove on Feb 8, 2024 16:32:14 GMT
Even though "Sail On Sailor" was my default ringtone for over two years, you know I love me some disco "Here Comes The Night"! It was a tough choice, because watching Blondie sing SOS live, was a highlight for me during Brian's last tour, but HCTN makes me happy. I don't even usually like disco either, but Carl nails those vocals. Neither song really "sounds" like the Beach Boys, and they are songs you can point to when non fans say "all the Bleach Boys music sounds the same". No it doesn't. One of the reasons I never get tired of listening to the Boys is that there is such variety in their output, especially after 1966.
Friday after work, grab an adult beverage, crank up disco "Here Comes The Night", dance and sing along. It's fun! Always starts out my weekend right.
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Post by Kapitan on Feb 8, 2024 16:42:53 GMT
Neither of these is a favorite for me, so I have no particular emotional pull in either direction.
I lean slightly toward "Sail On, Sailor," and have voted for that (at least for now). Strong arguments could swing me, but to me, SOS feels more like the sort of thing that might've hit than HCTN 79. Which is, of course, ironic to say considering the latter was a bigger hit (by a few slots) in reality.
One thing I'll say is, it would not be close if we were talking about the album version or even the longer single versions. If it's not one of the two shorter ones, it's not close. But I'm saying SOS by a hair over the shorter HCTNs.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Feb 8, 2024 18:53:26 GMT
I nominated both of these songs with "Here Comes The Night" slightly higher, and I think I'll sick with that.
"Sail On, Sailor" had its chance. Twice. I read about how well Holland was received critically (and kind of commercially). In Concert should've helped, too. The song included Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks in the songwriting credits. But, ultimately, even with the additional push from Endless Summer and Spirit Of America, "Sail On, Sailor" just wasn't destined to make it big. The lyrics were a big part of that IMO, but I digress. I can understand why AM radio didn't embrace the record, but it was tailor-made for FM radio in the early/mid 1970's.
To me, "Here Comes The Night (1979)" had it all - great song, fine lyrics, super Carl Wilson lead vocal, very cool Beach Boys' background vocals, and adequate production. There is nothing wrong with this song (the single version). I think there's a lot right with it - and I'll add that it did sound good on the radio, too. I heard it! "Here Comes The Night" was played in the discos, there were 12-inch mixes, colored vinyl, and the band performed it on national TV. I think the single should've at least gone Top 20. Yes, the other (younger) disco records were stiff competition, but "Here Comes The Night" was just as good or better than most of them. I have to think the listening public, especially Beach Boys' fans, were too closed-minded. They just would not accept such a deviation or fad-jumping, especially a fad like the dreaded disco scene. Not our boys. And, I'll add that the Beach Boys themselves didn't do the song any favors by some of their less-than-enthusiastic comments. Even they did not appear to take it seriously (Brian and Dennis weren't even on it). Well, I'll defend it. "Here Comes The Night" gets my vote!
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Post by kds on Feb 8, 2024 19:34:30 GMT
Even though I love SOS, and detest HCTN79, this is actually a tough choice.
Ultimately, I'm going with Sail On, as I think its in line with some of the hit music of the time.
I do think a better executed BB disco song could've done well.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 8, 2024 20:40:07 GMT
SOS was a big hit here in the Northwest, regularly played on top 40 and AOR stations from 1975 on. I expect that many people thought it was a new BB's song when it was re-released in 1975 as a single, and the lead off track from "Good Vibrations - Best of the Beach Boys". It's also one that gets reactions like "that's the Beach Boys?" And maybe that was the weakness. If Carl or Dennis had taken the lead vocal, it would have been more recognizably Beach Boys. HCTN features a great Carl vocal, great background vocals, and not much else to recommend it. It sounds like someone took a mass production disco track and stuck Beach Boy voices on it. SOS for me.
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Post by carllove on Feb 9, 2024 1:18:01 GMT
I nominated both of these songs with "Here Comes The Night" slightly higher, and I think I'll sick with that.
"Sail On, Sailor" had its chance. Twice. I read about how well Holland was received critically (and kind of commercially). In Concert should've helped, too. The song included Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks in the songwriting credits. But, ultimately, even with the additional push from Endless Summer and Spirit Of America, "Sail On, Sailor" just wasn't destined to make it big. The lyrics were a big part of that IMO, but I digress. I can understand why AM radio didn't embrace the record, but it was tailor-made for FM radio in the early/mid 1970's.
To me, "Here Comes The Night (1979)" had it all - great song, fine lyrics, super Carl Wilson lead vocal, very cool Beach Boys' background vocals, and adequate production. There is nothing wrong with this song (the single version). I think there's a lot right with it - and I'll add that it did sound good on the radio, too. I heard it! "Here Comes The Night" was played in the discos, there were 12-inch mixes, colored vinyl, and the band performed it on national TV. I think the single should've at least gone Top 20. Yes, the other (younger) disco records were stiff competition, but "Here Comes The Night" was just as good or better than most of them. I have to think the listening public, especially Beach Boys' fans, were too closed-minded. They just would not accept such a deviation or fad-jumping, especially a fad like the dreaded disco scene. Not our boys. And, I'll add that the Beach Boys themselves didn't do the song any favors by some of their less-than-enthusiastic comments. Even they did not appear to take it seriously (Brian and Dennis weren't even on it). Well, I'll defend it. "Here Comes The Night" gets my vote!
Bless you Sheriff! It may be a losing battle, but I will fight this battle with all my might! The song just makes my toes tingle with Carl’s amazing phrasing and vocal. It’s just a song rolled in happiness and excellent production. Maybe some folks here will get their beverage or smoke on to start the weekend, dance a bit and sing their hearts out and feel what I’m feeling. Maybe a girl can dream.
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Post by carllove on Feb 9, 2024 1:26:36 GMT
Come on - How can you not love this!
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