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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 6, 2023 0:01:30 GMT
Sorry about that, B.E. I made the correction on the vote.
I agree with your review of Live At The Roxy. Good setlist. Good band. Good vocals.
Now you really have me curious how Gershwin and Disney will come in. Our board is comprised of a lot of free thinkers. We don't always follow the norm.
I probably should've gotten Like A Brother out of mothballs, but as I remember, I usually come away disappointed, other than Carl's tracks of course.
I am expecting Brian Wilson And Friends to get at least one vote! Perhaps if it included the live version of Hold On Dear Brother than was on the DVD, I'd have voted for it. Yeah, I was expecting you and/or Kapitan to vote for it. I guess that leaves it to B.E. and lonelysummer...not to put any pressure on them.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 6, 2023 0:06:38 GMT
Perhaps if it included the live version of Hold On Dear Brother than was on the DVD, I'd have voted for it. Yeah, I was expecting you and/or Kapitan to vote for it. I guess that leaves it to B.E. and lonelysummer...not to put any pressure on them. Sorry, I'm mostly not a live albums guy.
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Post by kds on Jun 6, 2023 12:50:43 GMT
Perhaps if it included the live version of Hold On Dear Brother than was on the DVD, I'd have voted for it. Yeah, I was expecting you and/or Kapitan to vote for it. I guess that leaves it to B.E. and lonelysummer...not to put any pressure on them. I did consider it, but at the end of the day, I think the Roxy Album and Al's Family and Friends are better overall live albums.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 6, 2023 18:35:37 GMT
One thing that really stands out to me when I look at the solo albums all together is: the Beach Boys were really not solo artists.
Perhaps once upon a time, Brian might have been a great one (in that he could have more or less done what he did already, just under his own name). I do think that from the late 60s through the mid 70s, there was opportunity for Dennis to have had some success in that respect, though he was late in getting something out and then fell apart pretty quickly thereafter with his assorted troubles.
But otherwise, for all their talent, these guys just weren't really solo artists. Why? I would throw out some opinions such as Mike didn't have the ideas or artistry; Al was more the executor of plans than creator; Carl wasn't really much of a songwriter (and his look wasn't necessarily what you imagine with "pop star"). Bruce perhaps could have had more of a career, but for all the crap I give Al about being slow to finish anything, Bruce puts out one true solo album and it's mostly old music! I don't know exactly why it was the way it was, but these guys just tended not to release much great music as solo artists.
They were meant to be together. It's a shame they so often weren't.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 6, 2023 19:28:14 GMT
One thing that really stands out to me when I look at the solo albums all together is: the Beach Boys were really not solo artists. Perhaps once upon a time, Brian might have been a great one (in that he could have more or less done what he did already, just under his own name). I do think that from the late 60s through the mid 70s, there was opportunity for Dennis to have had some success in that respect, though he was late in getting something out and then fell apart pretty quickly thereafter with his assorted troubles. But otherwise, for all their talent, these guys just weren't really solo artists. Why? I would throw out some opinions such as Mike didn't have the ideas or artistry; Al was more the executor of plans than creator; Carl wasn't really much of a songwriter (and his look wasn't necessarily what you imagine with "pop star"). Bruce perhaps could have had more of a career, but for all the crap I give Al about being slow to finish anything, Bruce puts out one true solo album and it's mostly old music! I don't know exactly why it was the way it was, but these guys just tended not to release much great music as solo artists. They were meant to be together. It's a shame they so often weren't. I would agree with this assessment. Brian seemed to come up with enough new, original material for his solo albums, and I think Dennis was and would've been prolific enough to do the same had he stayed healthy and lived. But as far as Mike, Carl, Al, and even Bruce is concerned, I don't think solo albums/careers were in the cards for them. Sometimes you have to face reality, and maybe one or two but rarely three songs per Beach Boys' album was all we could've realistically expected from them. I mean, you rarely if ever heard those guys complain about lack of representation on Beach Boys' albums. I guess they knew "their place" or their roles and songwriting was not a priority, at least quantity-wise. Maybe they just weren't that motivated anyway, at least in the creative phase of the group.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 6, 2023 19:37:34 GMT
I guess I ought to note that while Brian could have easily generated the material as a solo artist, that was also when he was unwilling or unable to tour. So that's quite a problem to overcome as a solo artist. Harry Nilsson had some success without touring, but most artists didn't and don't.
Point being, even if he had put out phenomenal solo albums in the '60s, it might have been an uphill battle to market him if he was a non-performer.
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Post by kds on Jun 6, 2023 20:05:12 GMT
I guess I ought to note that while Brian could have easily generated the material as a solo artist, that was also when he was unwilling or unable to tour. So that's quite a problem to overcome as a solo artist. Harry Nilsson had some success without touring, but most artists didn't and don't. Point being, even if he had put out phenomenal solo albums in the '60s, it might have been an uphill battle to market him if he was a non-performer. I think being a recording artist / non performer could have worked for at least a short amount of time. The Beatles pulled it off, but then they were The Beatles. But, surely not when rebooting his solo career in 1998.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 6, 2023 20:12:39 GMT
I guess I ought to note that while Brian could have easily generated the material as a solo artist, that was also when he was unwilling or unable to tour. So that's quite a problem to overcome as a solo artist. Harry Nilsson had some success without touring, but most artists didn't and don't. Point being, even if he had put out phenomenal solo albums in the '60s, it might have been an uphill battle to market him if he was a non-performer. I think being a recording artist / non performer could have worked for at least a short amount of time. The Beatles pulled it off, but then they were The Beatles. But, surely not when rebooting his solo career in 1998. True, but it lasted what, four years or so? Ringo, Paul, and George all went back to touring. And even John did some performances, though not tours. I'd guess it might have been something Brian could have done in that same time period--latter 60s--but at some point to keep things going, he'd have had to hit the road. And that's assuming he'd already been a Beach Boy. Had he not had that earlier success, and only ever been a solo artist, I don't think he could have done it without touring.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 7, 2023 15:50:02 GMT
I'm curious: those of you who ranked your favorites (or who didn't, but can do so in your head), has your favorite Beach Boys related solo album changed through the years? When? From what, to what? Has this happened repeatedly?
For me, I definitely switched from BWPS to TLOS somewhere along the line, and it wasn't immediately upon the release of the latter. It was probably around the Smile Sessions, but maybe even a while after that. I still like BWPS much more than several of you, and definitely don't share the animosity toward it whatsoever. But a better-sounding, more complete Beach Boys version does make it less appealing. (I still do think it's a great album.)
Had you asked me to rate these in 2003, though, I don't even know what I would have said. Obviously we had far fewer albums to choose from at that point, but I also didn't really like any of them all that much. It was very much hit and miss for me with Brian's two studio solo albums by that time (not counting OCA, which I liked even less anyway). And I didn't like any others, really at all. It might have been between 88, Imagination and POB almost by default, with nothing else really rating at all. Oh!--except Roxy. That was up there (also almost by default, but at that time the best presentation of the 'mints-led band).
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Post by kds on Jun 7, 2023 16:19:09 GMT
For the most part, The Beach Boys solo material is fairly new to me. I started listening to Brian's in 2014. I didn't hear Carl's until the last couple years.
I remember TLOS was always at, or near, the top. When it was new, I think NPP gave it a run, but I don't think I ever considered switching the two.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 7, 2023 19:40:42 GMT
My rankings have changed very little through the years. Reviewing my above list, I can only think of one, maybe two changes. For years, I guess from 1983 thru 2015, my #1 and #2 was Pacific Ocean Blue and Youngblood. However, I really like(d) No Pier Pressure and that is now in the #2 slot, bumping Youngblood to #3. Brian caught me off guard and produced an album with very strong songwriting, and even more surprising, vocals that touched me. That has rarely happened during Brian's solo recording career.
The other album I struggled with for these rankings was Looking Back With Love. I never loved the album (no pun intended), but I do remember in the early/mid 1980s, making a mix cassette of Beach Boys' solo stuff, and including about five songs from that album. I still remember them - Looking Back With Love, Be My Baby, Running Around The World, Calendar Girl, and Paradise Found. Jeez, that's half the album! Mike's voice was still good, and I enjoyed those songs. Anyway, a few months ago, we had that thread discussing all of the albums and I revisited Looking Back With Love for the first time in years. Frankly, I was not as enamored with it as I once was. I think it mostly the production that turned me off. Ultimately, it didn't make the cut for this thread, and like I said above, I struggled with that ranking. Who'd have thought that Looking Back With Love would be competing with George & Ira Gershwin's songs! Who knows? The next time we rank 'em, things might be different, at least for #10 and #11.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 8, 2023 14:11:11 GMT
While they didn't actually make my rankings, I think possibly the solo albums I've changed my mind about the most are Carl's. Even just in the past couple of years, since whenever we first reviewed and rated them, they have grown on me quite a bit.
I still don't think they're especially good. I think they're pretty average. But I used to think they were embarrassingly bad, so average is quite an improvement. Several of these songs could have been key parts of Beach Boys albums, had they decided to bother recording one in the first half of the 1980s, and they would have sounded much better for it (at least in terms of harmony vocals).
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 8, 2023 20:48:12 GMT
TLOS has dropped in my ranking. At first listen, I didn't care much for it; then I grew to love it; and since then I've grown cold on most of it. The production might be the best on any BW solo album, but the songwriting? Some is quite good (Midnight's Another Day, Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl); some is embarrassing (Oxygen to the Brain, Goin' Home); much of it is just average. So I keep going back to Brian's solo debut as his best. I have Sweet Insanity on CD, and it's not nearly as good as the first album. Whether that is Landy's influence or what, I don't know. The production is over the top, but mainly it's just the songs aren't as good as on BW88. These days, Brian's latter day career is mostly described in terms of getting away from Landy, and going on tour. For many, that is a miracle itself. Myself, though, I have to say his solo career has been mostly anti-climactic. He did his best work in the 60's (up to 71), with a brief resurgence in the second half of the 80's...and it's been mostly downhill since then.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 10, 2023 22:26:20 GMT
Dang, settling on 8-10 was tough! I thought I'd include A Postcard from California, but in the end I just haven't been in the mood to listen it for quite some time.
1. Pacific Ocean Blue 2. Brian Wilson 3. That Lucky Old Sun 4. What I Really Want For Christmas 5. Brian Wilson Presents Smile 6. Bambu (The Caribou Sessions) 7. Live at Roxy Theatre 8. No Pier Pressure 9. Carl Wilson 10. At My Piano
My top 5 selections, along with Bambu, are my "true" favorites. They were automatic inclusions. Then I really had to start deliberating. At My Piano is still a relatively recent release, and Roxy is a more recent discovery for me, so that could have played into it. It really was tough to leave off Postcard. And there were numerous other albums by Brian that I could have felt good about including. I had hoped to give a proper listen to Live in Vegas, but I couldn't find the time this week.
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Post by B.E. on Jun 11, 2023 12:46:29 GMT
Thanks for participating. We had 9 voters cast 90 votes.
Top 10 Solo Albums
Pacific Ocean Blue (8 votes) Brian Wilson (8 votes) That Lucky Old Sun (8 votes) No Pier Pressure (7 votes) Imagination (6 votes) A Postcard from California (6 votes) Like A Brother (5 votes) What I Really Want For Christmas (5 votes) Carl Wilson (4 votes) Live at Roxy Theatre (4 votes) Brian Wilson Presents Smile (4 votes) Bambu (4 votes)
Brian Wilson - 55 votes (16 albums) Dennis Wilson - 12 votes (2 albums) Carl Wilson - 12 votes (3 albums) Al Jardine - 9 votes (2 albums) Mike Love - 2 votes (10 albums)
The biggest surprise for me is probably Like A Brother. I didn't see 5 votes going its way. Even more surprising: It received more votes than either of his proper solo albums.
I'm also a little surprised that Pacific Ocean Blue and That Lucky Old Sun weren't unanimous. I understand that POB isn't everyone's favorite Beach Boys solo album. Or that TLOS isn't everyone's favorite Brian Wilson solo album. But, to not even make some fans top 10? I'd love to know why.
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