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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 6, 2023 21:04:41 GMT
Kapitan, I agree with all of your points, however, the one point I want to address the most I'll save for last.
I remember when the news of Christian Love leaving the Beach Boys' band - years ago - came out. I believe it was in a Mike Love interview, and indeed, one of the main reasons was that Christian was pursuing some kind of a career in volleyball. I remember thinking, "Huh?" or "What!" or "He's giving up The Beach Boys for that?" I have no idea if Christian did, in fact, play professional volleyball, but I'm pretty sure he eventually had a...re-evaluation...of his career goals. He saw the light, or more specifically, maybe he saw the $$$$$$. I do think, and this is pure speculation, that he missed the lifestyle which is touring as one of The Beach Boys. Playing in a rock & roll band. Seeing the world. Obviously he lasted the second time around, and I can't see him turning back again. He basically said as much in the interview. He's digging it.
Yes, Christian does kind of give the impression that he isn't really a scholar or "obsessive nut" (like us ) when it comes to The Beach Boys' entire catalogue. He knows what he has to know. And maybe he knows more than he lets on. But, I have read/heard interviews with other BB-related musicians like Darian Sahanaja, Jeff Foskett, Paul Von Mertens, maybe Matt Jardine, and others who worship and absolutely love (and live for?) Brian Wilson's/The Beach Boys' music. All of it. I wouldn't put Christian in that category, but, again, maybe I'm wrong.
I would agree that Christian Love is probably not a virtuoso on the guitar. And I would describe his singing as acceptable. I won't go farther than that and I never thought he sounded like Carl Wilson. However, don't forget that Brian Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Al Jardine, and in some ways Carl Wilson weren't virtuosos either, especially on stage. The backing band were better instrumentalists. They were the ones who made the live performances work, with their musicianship, both in the Beach Boys' band and in Brian Wilson's band. So, I have no problem with Christian Love's talent if and when he had to take on a larger role. Others could compensate if necessary.
As far as Christian's work ethic, I'm going to assume it's fine. I never read or heard anything "leak out" about him being unprofessional, and that includes not missing shows, staying clean and sober, hitting his notes/playing his parts, and just generally being dependable. I don't think his dad would tolerate anything less. Mike's been there, done that. He's seen enough of that. And, down the road? I'm not really worried about Christian if he had to...lead. Also, I'm not sure Christian's preference for playing significantly less shows in the distant future is related to work ethic. Could be, but maybe he just values quality over quantity, which was questionable with The Beach Boys for many years.
Christian Love's personal musical tastes mean very little to me. Now, if he was writing and recording songs for The Beach Boys, yes, but that's different. He's not doing that. If and when Christian leads the band, there ain't gonna be any more Beach Boys. Heck, this isn't now!
OK, Kapitan, back to your original point or premise. You said, "I don't think Christian Love is the person to lead that future band." Honestly, I wouldn't worry about that. Oh, he could be one of them (plural), but I don't think he would be THE leader (singular). I envision a band of several outstanding musicians and hopefully as many Beach Boys' family members as possible. I need that emotional attachment. All right, I don't want to get off track...I foresee a band or a situation where not one but a few of the band members will contribute as frontman/frontwoman or emcee or "leader". For parts of the show or for some of the songs it could be a Stamos. Maybe Matt Jardine has something to say. Paul Von Mertens could do the band introductions. Carnie Wilson could tell funny (and touching) stories about her dad. Darian Sahanaja could contribute, too, I'm sure. Maybe Christian Love would like to salute Michael Edward Love and not say much more. And, yes, maybe even a Blondie Chaplin would come along for the (short) ride and own the stage for a few wonderful minutes. So, there doesn't have to be just one leader or frontman like the days of Mike Love. And, it isn't necessary for Christian Love to be that guy either.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 7, 2023 2:25:43 GMT
No, i don't picture Christian Love as the onstage leader of a future Beach Boys band. I don't believe that is a job he wants. Honestly, that is going to be tough shoes to fill - and I think the more rational among us have come to appreciate what a great frontman Mike Love is. Carl certainly grew to appreciate Mike's role, after going solo and taking on that role himself. Carl was great at being the onstage BAND leader - counting off tempos, etc; but being a frontman is a different job, and Mike has been great at that for 60 plus years. It's gonna be a sad day for Mike when he is no longer healthy enough to tour. It amazes me how hard he continues to work year after year. My dad was only a few years older than Mike, and he had slowed down considerably after retiring. It wasn't unusual for him to doze off in the middle of a family gathering.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 7, 2023 12:59:04 GMT
I noticed yesterday that the Beach Boys joined some pretty good company lately in canceling a performance: their Oct. 13 show in Bakersfield has been canceled.
However, unlike Bruce Springsteen or Aerosmith, this cancelation seems to be a one-off, at least as far as I can see. I don't notice any other cancelations. So that, plus it being a week out, at least seems to indicate it's not a health concern or anything like that, which is great news.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 21, 2023 13:38:15 GMT
Mike Love is interviewed by KMPH Fox News26 in Fresno, California. Near the end, Mike gets a dose of his own lyrical references - and he loves it!
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 22, 2023 13:44:34 GMT
Here is a concert review from a show Sunday in upstate New York. A positive review from a writer who is also apparently a longtime fan. (Maybe the most interesting thing, while he praises John Bolton's energy, he's also seemingly a little suspicious of his style: "The band was mostly workmanlike, un-showy; but drummer Bolton was all high-flying sticks and adrenaline, striking poses between phrases, smacking himself upside the head and singing “Darlin’” surprisingly well, for all the histrionics. Later, he took “Wild Honey” too far over the top." That last sentence and a half weren't exactly glowing. But overall it is a positive review. nippertown.com/2023/11/20/concert-review-the-beach-boys-proctors-11-19-2023/
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 22, 2023 14:44:33 GMT
Here is a concert review from a show Sunday in upstate New York. A positive review from a writer who is also apparently a longtime fan. (Maybe the most interesting thing, while he praises John Bolton's energy, he's also seemingly a little suspicious of his style: "The band was mostly workmanlike, un-showy; but drummer Bolton was all high-flying sticks and adrenaline, striking poses between phrases, smacking himself upside the head and singing “Darlin’” surprisingly well, for all the histrionics. Later, he took “Wild Honey” too far over the top." That last sentence and a half weren't exactly glowing. But overall it is a positive review. I found this sentence interesting: "Over our pre-show beer at Ambition, saxophonist Randy Leago said the Proctors show would be the Beach Boys' last of the year..." I guess I expected the band to play some Christmas shows and maybe even New Year's Eve. Also, there's the occasional morning TV show appearance and the annual performance of "Little Saint Nick". I'd have to check the numbers, but I think Mike & Bruce have cut back on their touring schedule the last few years. It's not still up in the 150 shows per year range anymore is it?
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 22, 2023 15:27:40 GMT
Perhaps they're still going to do some of the almost obligatory Christmas TV appearances, but just don't count those as "shows," since they're typically just a song or two.
But their website currently lists only three shows as booked, the first of which is in March 2024. You'd think if there were any tour dates coming yet in 2023, they'd be listed.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 28, 2023 21:08:58 GMT
Here's a Beach Boys-related Christmas concert at The Ross Ragland Theater in Klamath Falls, Oregon:
...and this:
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Post by kds on Nov 29, 2023 2:22:34 GMT
Per setlist.fm, Mike and Bruce last hit 150 shows in 2017 (169).
Then....
2018 - 136 2019 - 132 2020 - 39 (COVID restrictions) 2021 - 90 (COVID restrictions ease) 2022 - 120 2023 - 113
Still a lot of shows. But, it is a little unusual they're not doing a run of Christmas shows.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 29, 2023 12:40:45 GMT
Even the indefatigable Mike and Bruce aren't untouched by Father Time. Their workload has been remarkable, but they are in their 80s.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Nov 29, 2023 13:40:49 GMT
Even the indefatigable Mike and Bruce aren't untouched by Father Time. Their workload has been remarkable, but they are in their 80s. I would guess it's more that the interest isn't there like it was. That run of 150+ yearly shows might have been C50 related. Age of the fans is also a factor. Despite plenty of younger fans hanging around online, a solid 75% of the people who attend the shows are 60 and over. Hate to be blunt, but those people are dying off, or at the very least not able to attend for this or that reason.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 29, 2023 13:51:13 GMT
Even the indefatigable Mike and Bruce aren't untouched by Father Time. Their workload has been remarkable, but they are in their 80s. I would guess it's more that the interest isn't there like it was. That run of 150+ yearly shows might have been C50 related. Age of the fans is also a factor. Despite plenty of younger fans hanging around online, a solid 75% of the people who attend the shows are 60 and over. Hate to be blunt, but those people are dying off, or at the very least not able to attend for this or that reason. Honestly I hadn't ever really paid that much attention to how many shows they did a year, so I figured with 150 thrown out there, that must be typical. It seems (per concertarchives.org) that 100 is a much more typical number for the decade prior to C50. That said, I still stand behind my post. No matter why they upped the average shows per year in the '10s, they are indeed still getting older and that's likely to bring down that number. And the number is likely to keep shrinking somewhat. Good point regarding the fan base, too. It's not really even arguable. There are younger fans, of course, and some older fans are still more than capable of getting out to shows. But it does come down to Father Time again.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 29, 2023 14:22:27 GMT
I think Mike & Bruce are facing two...problems...in addition to age. Well, maybe not problems but you know what I mean.
First - Sameness. After C50 in 2012, things have been pretty much the same with Mike & Bruce's shows. I'm not overlooking Scott Totten and John Cowsill being replaced, but the only fans that affected were a small (and I mean small) percentage of diehards, and how many of them stopped going to shows because of the move. I'll bet most continued to attend out of curiosity to see/hear the replacements. The setlists are basically the same, Mike is still the same, and Bruce has been the same for 45 years. Yes, there are a few (emphasis on few) hidden gems and rarities sprinkled in the setlists, but it's not a significant amount and I wouldn't say they make or break the show. If anything, Mike's choice to play some of his solo songs has hurt the shows, bringing the concerts to a standstill. However, as we all know, it's that very setlist that keeps the people coming back. There's not a better catalogue out there. So, it's a double-edged sword. The setlists are the same, but the setlists are the same.
Second - Who cares? This is where I think the lack of Brian, Al, and David really hurts. Just think if Mike could turn over four or five lead vocals each to a Brian Wilson or Al Jardine, or feature David Marks on some great guitar solos. I think that would add so much more - especially emotionally - to the shows. Nothing against the other guys in the band, but they're not...Beach Boys. Yes, they're pros and in some ways they are better singers than Brian and Al , but who cares? Who are these guys? This is where the tribute band factor starts to creep in.
But, Mike & Bruce will go on, hopefully for many more years. They'll continue to make many fans happy with their concerts. Maybe even some of us!
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 29, 2023 14:45:36 GMT
A couple of comments on/reactions to that.
1) Sameness: that is one curse of being not just a legacy act, but a legacy act that really isn't releasing anything new anymore. There really aren't even the obligatory couple of songs off a new album. (Unless you count Mike's solo music, many of which are just covers anyway.) What's more, if you want to feature a Beach Boy on lead vocals, that limits the choices even more, because so many of the leads are unsingable by Mike or Bruce. While they (and Brian) had been handing off leads for years, I'm sure they make an effort to keep Mike in the spotlight as much as possible while honoring the catalogue.
2) Turning over 4-5 leads to Al and Brian. Al, sure, but these days, turning over leads to Brian clearly would not help anything. I think at this point it is obviously for the best that Brian Wilson is not on stage singing lead vocals. If people thought he was mostly a prop during most of his solo career--and there were always those fans who said so-then he would be 10x as much of one now. His "awful" singing of 20 years ago would be a highlight of his singing now, based on what he was doing the past few years before calling it quits.
Somewhat pessimistic (but I'd say just realistic) point being, there probably isn't a lot they can realistically do to refresh things all that much at this point, at least not beyond bringing back Al in particular. And that's funny to think about, because Al has been by far the most negative about Mike since C50 ended. But yet you'd have to think that professionally speaking, it would be great for him.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 29, 2023 15:19:23 GMT
A couple of comments on/reactions to that. 1) Sameness: that is one curse of being not just a legacy act, but a legacy act that really isn't releasing anything new anymore. There really aren't even the obligatory couple of songs off a new album. (Unless you count Mike's solo music, many of which are just covers anyway.) What's more, if you want to feature a Beach Boy on lead vocals, that limits the choices even more, because so many of the leads are unsingable by Mike or Bruce. While they (and Brian) had been handing off leads for years, I'm sure they make an effort to keep Mike in the spotlight as much as possible while honoring the catalogue. 2) Turning over 4-5 leads to Al and Brian. Al, sure, but these days, turning over leads to Brian clearly would not help anything. I think at this point it is obviously for the best that Brian Wilson is not on stage singing lead vocals. If people thought he was mostly a prop during most of his solo career--and there were always those fans who said so-then he would be 10x as much of one now. His "awful" singing of 20 years ago would be a highlight of his singing now, based on what he was doing the past few years before calling it quits.
Somewhat pessimistic (but I'd say just realistic) point being, there probably isn't a lot they can realistically do to refresh things all that much at this point, at least not beyond bringing back Al in particular. And that's funny to think about, because Al has been by far the most negative about Mike since C50 ended. But yet you'd have to think that professionally speaking, it would be great for him. For clarification, I was not proposing Brian tour with Mike & Bruce presently. Brian is retired from touring. Thankfully. I was referring to most of the post-2012 years when it was still feasible and practical.
However, if Brian was "handed" five vocals to sing, I think he could've handled:
- Sloop John B - Surfer Girl - God Only Knows - Caroline, No (he wouldn't have to "go for" the final note unless he felt up to it) - maybe a Please Let Me Wonder, In My Room, You're So Good To Me(?), This Whole World, Til I Die, Marcella, Sail On Sailor (I know I'm reaching)
The problem would've been, of course, what does Brian do for the other 30 songs? Don't answer that!
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