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Post by Kapitan on Nov 15, 2022 15:40:25 GMT
I'm surprised nobody has really mentioned Bill Haley and his Comets. Maybe it wasn't always this way (and may not be again with the way early rock and roll is viewed), but growing up in the 00s, Rock Around the Clock was always taught in my music classes as the first rock and roll song. It being the opening song for the first (and maybe second?) season of Happy Days surely influenced me as well. jk did (briefly)! I suppose one aspect of the fifties for me was the difference between music my parents allowed us to hear on the speaker set up in our bedroom (novelty stuff, Danny Kaye and the like -- no problem with that) and music that got turned off the second it started (Bill Haley suffered the most).
btw I don't think the consensus is that "Rock Around the Clock" is the first rock 'n' roll song anymore. One that is often named is "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and His Delta Cats (1951). RotC was written in 1952, and the most famous version was from 1954.
Sounds like rock 'n' roll to me! (Though I'm sure you can listen to R&B records, and probably some blues or country and western ones, from earlier still that are equally worthy of the claim. I don't see the evolution of music as something conducive to "firsts" very often. Things just evolve.)
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Nov 15, 2022 16:21:37 GMT
I'm surprised nobody has really mentioned Bill Haley and his Comets. Maybe it wasn't always this way (and may not be again with the way early rock and roll is viewed), but growing up in the 00s, Rock Around the Clock was always taught in my music classes as the first rock and roll song. It being the opening song for the first (and maybe second?) season of Happy Days surely influenced me as well. jk did (briefly)! I suppose one aspect of the fifties for me was the difference between music my parents allowed us to hear on the speaker set up in our bedroom (novelty stuff, Danny Kaye and the like -- no problem with that) and music that got turned off the second it started (Bill Haley suffered the most). btw I don't think the consensus is that "Rock Around the Clock" is the first rock 'n' roll song anymore. One that is often named is "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and His Delta Cats (1951). RotC was written in 1952, and the most famous version was from 1954. Sounds like rock 'n' roll to me! (Though I'm sure you can listen to R&B records, and probably some blues or country and western ones, from earlier still that are equally worthy of the claim. I don't see the evolution of music as something conducive to "firsts" very often. Things just evolve.)
Yes, I've heard that before and I think my American Music History Textbook might have even mentioned it. Side rant, I hate that nearly all college textbooks are online now. At the time, I went with them because they were a decent amount cheaper than hardcover books, but now I wish I had them. They have so much useful information.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 15, 2022 16:25:56 GMT
Continuing the tangent briefly, while I can't say I would have wanted most of my college textbooks, there are definitely some I wish I'd kept. And I've found myself actually buying some (usually used) in recent years--nearly 25 years out of college--for various subjects in the humanities. There are a lot of good "survey" type books for history, philosophy, literature, etc., as well as anthologies of lit. I'm a big fan of physical books, so I'm glad not to have had online-only textbooks back in the latter 90s. (Though presumably the cost would have been much, much lower!)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 15, 2022 18:46:37 GMT
If forced to choose a musician/band who "owned the '50s," is the choice Elvis Presley? I think in terms of impact on culture, it seems it probably has to be him ... or is that just the mythology? I'm curious what you all think.
Obviously this wouldn't be to say nobody else was massively important, any more than saying the Beatles owned the '60s would mean Dylan, the Beach Boys, etc., were irrelevant. But if you HAD to name just one name ... is there anyone but Elvis?
I think Elvis was the clear...winner...but I'm wondering if that gap has closed over the decades. In the 1950s, at least commercially speaking, it was Elvis - and then the rest. He had the most hits and he sold the most records, so that made him the champ. And that isn't even counting the movies. But, I'm wondering if, through the years, with more things written and researched, more radio stations playing music from that era, and more records/tapes/CDs/streaming available from other artists (especially Chuck, Buddy, Jerry Lee, Fats, Ricky Nelson, Little Richard, Ray Charles and others) if Elvis isn't as overwhelming the favorite as he once was. Just a thought.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 15, 2022 18:53:11 GMT
I'm sure you're right, Sheriff. Not least of which because of the way trends come and go. Elvis was worshipped by many artists of the '60s, but he also has had his stints as the butt of jokes, as the ultimate sellout, as a joke, or (as I was saying earlier) as some kind of malign force.
Point being, any time there are those tides against the establishment, it opens doors. Any individual moment of backlash in any community is going to open doors for someone else. Eventually, as these things come and go, I think a more complete, realistic picture is generated--even though I don't think any of those individual moments captures the complete, realistic picture.
I absolutely admit the very question of "who owned the '50s" is, in terms of that goal of a complete picture, absurd!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 15, 2022 19:23:40 GMT
As I think about some of the other artists I mentioned, isn't it interesting how many of them had movies made about them - and not just Elvis. We have The Buddy Holly Story with Gary Busey, Great Balls Of Fire! with Dennis Quaid, Little Richard with Leon, Ray with Jamie Foxx, and the Chuck Berry film with Keith Richards and guests, Hail! Hail! Rock & Roll. I'm sure those movies (to some degree; obviously some were better than others) opened some eyes and ears and helped catalogue sales significantly.
While there's dozens of songs in dozens of movie soundtracks, I just wanted to mention one - Chuck Berry's "You Never Can Tell" from Pulp Fiction. I wonder how many people either weren't familiar with that song or had kind of forgotten it (it was one of Chuck's later, lesser-known hits). But a fluke song like that included in a movie can do wonders for an artist's popularity (cough..."Kokomo"). No, seriously, cases like that are the great equalizers for artists from the 50s who spent a career chasing Elvis.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 15, 2022 19:29:27 GMT
As I think about some of the other artists I mentioned, isn't it interesting how many of them had movies made about them - and not just Elvis. We have The Buddy Holly Story with Gary Busey, Great Balls Of Fire! with Dennis Quaid, Little Richard with Leon, Ray with Jamie Foxx, and the Chuck Berry film with Keith Richards and guests, Hail! Hail! Rock & Roll. I'm sure those movies (to some degree; obviously some were better than others) opened some eyes and ears and helped catalogue sales significantly.
La Bamba for Ritchie Valens with Lou Diamond Phillips, too. I recall that being a big one and bringing Valens to the forefront for a while.
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Post by jk on Nov 15, 2022 21:13:21 GMT
btw I don't think the consensus is that "Rock Around the Clock" is the first rock 'n' roll song anymore. One that is often named is "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and His Delta Cats (1951). RotC was written in 1952, and the most famous version was from 1954.
Sounds like rock 'n' roll to me! (Though I'm sure you can listen to R&B records, and probably some blues or country and western ones, from earlier still that are equally worthy of the claim. I don't see the evolution of music as something conducive to "firsts" very often. Things just evolve.)
I've never regarded "RATR" as the first r'n'r record. I rather suspect it's far more complex and diffuse than that, if * this page* is anything to go by!! A curious fact about "Rocket 88" is that the frantic pianist is Ike Turner. (His wild intro took on a new lease of life as the intro to Little Richard's "Good Golly Miss Molly" seven years later.) The record's bizarre history is well worth reading up ( here). For completeness' sake, the guitarist's full name is Willie Kizart.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 16, 2022 3:44:21 GMT
I couldn't pick just one. I think there are several you need in any discussion of the 50's and the beginnings of rock and roll. Chuck, Richard and Elvis at the very least. Fats was actually recording before any of them; and Bill Haley was the one that had the big breakthrough hit. Chuck was probably the biggest influence strictly in musical terms - the guitar playing, the lyrics, the influence of both was HUGE. Richard's influence was nearly as big - everytime you hear Paul McCartney sing "I'm Down", or Robert Plant singing "Rock & Roll", you're hearing Little Richard. But Elvis was the one that made the biggest impact commercially - on the record charts, on tv, and then he became a movie star. I guess we need a separate thread about Elvis and racism; I could write a book on that subject, so I'll keep it short and simple: no he was not. And B.B. King, James Brown, Fats Domino and Sammy Davis, Jr. would all affirm that.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 16, 2022 12:45:49 GMT
Chuck was probably the biggest influence strictly in musical terms - the guitar playing, the lyrics, the influence of both was HUGE. Richard's influence was nearly as big - everytime you hear Paul McCartney sing "I'm Down", or Robert Plant singing "Rock & Roll", you're hearing Little Richard. I think this is very, very true. Those two probably dominate musically (which is what really matters most on a music-focused board) as influences--with Buddy Holly in the picture, too, for his songwriting, his melodies.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 17, 2022 2:52:41 GMT
Rocket 88 is certainly a strong candidate for first rock and roll record, along with the Fat Man by Fats Domino, 1949. Rock Around the Clock is the one that kicked off the revolution, though. Right after Clock, we got Maybellene, Ain't That a Shame, Tutti-Frutti, and Blue Suede Shoes. I think of 1955 as the year the wall starts to come down; and 1956 as the year Elvis kicked it open! 1956 truly belonged to Elvis; he was everywhere, records, concerts, televison, his first movie. That paved the way for others to emerge in 1957, including Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Ricky Nelson, the Everly Brothers, Eddie Cochran.
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