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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 2, 2022 13:37:19 GMT
I don't think Let's Go to Heaven in My Car is a classic (although I think it's better than at least a third of BW88), but I still believe some a little push, it might've at least been a minor hit. It reminds me of some of the stuff the likes of Eddie Money and Huey Lewis were putting out at the time. Hitching the wagon to Police Academy 4 also might not have helped. Those movies might've made a profit, but their soundtracks never berthed any hit songs. I wish "Let's Go To Heaven In My Car" would've been included on Brian Wilson. It probably never had a chance, but the album could've used another dose of rock & roll. I include "Let's Go To Heaven In My Car" on my alternate Brian Wilson.
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Post by kds on Aug 2, 2022 13:40:44 GMT
I don't think Let's Go to Heaven in My Car is a classic (although I think it's better than at least a third of BW88), but I still believe some a little push, it might've at least been a minor hit. It reminds me of some of the stuff the likes of Eddie Money and Huey Lewis were putting out at the time. Hitching the wagon to Police Academy 4 also might not have helped. Those movies might've made a profit, but their soundtracks never berthed any hit songs. I wish "Let's Go To Heaven In My Car" would've been included on Brian Wilson. It probably never had a chance, but the album could've used another dose of rock & roll. I include "Let's Go To Heaven In My Car" on my alternate Brian Wilson. At least it was included on the CD reissue as a bonus track. It actually had better production than most of BW88.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 2, 2022 13:48:33 GMT
It's funny, because while on our first matchup, I saw both albums as successes. With this one, I see them both as both successes and failures, or at least major missed opportunities.
The Beach Boys had a massive hit, their first in quite a long time. And what's more, you could see it (as Mike Love obviously did) as a triumph for the group minus the guy always held up as the real reason for their success. But then they failed to even remotely approach it with future singles (imo), took forever to release the next album, and the next album wasn't really a fully new album anyway.
Brian Wilson finally got healthy enough to seem presentable and was seemingly out of the woods. He was working, even if he wasn't the master in control in the way he used to be. He wrote and recorded some very good songs. But the result was very much dated, failed to strike a chord with the public, and he continued even further down the Landy path for a few years.
As kds indicated in his post, you can't help but wish they'd been able to maintain Brian's healthy momentum but also reincorporating him fully into the group. I'm sorry to keep mentioning it, but the Brian Wilson album made a quick exit from the charts and the scene. And, Brian Wilson as solo artist took a bit of a hit, too, at least for a couple of years. I remember not too long after 1988, seeing the Brian Wilson CD in a bargain bin for $1.99. It made me sad and gave me a real taste of reality.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 2, 2022 13:56:33 GMT
"Let's Go to Heaven in My Car" feels like a missed opportunity to me (twice, actually, considering "Water Builds Up"). I like elements of it, but don't really like the end result very much. I think the demo has aspects that are better than the final product, but it's not really good as it is, either.
That said, they may as well have put it on the album. Ideally after getting some lyrical adjustments from somebody else ... maybe like Mike Love.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 2, 2022 22:13:21 GMT
It was a long time, depending on what you considered "mind-blowing". But, to your point, it would probably be considered all the way back to Pet Sounds and "Good Vibrations" which would've been 20 years previous. The thing was, realistic or not, that's how almost everybody was approaching Brian's 1988 solo album. Brian Wilson was finally shedding The Beach Boys - and that evil Mike Love. Brian could record and release what HE wanted to record and release. There were no restrictions, no rules (sound like 1966-67?). And, Brian certainly looked the part in 1988. Everybody was in his corner; all kind of artists/musicians were coming out and encouraging him. Brian Wilson 1988 was an overall critical success but a commercial failure, however, it wasn't because of a lack of attention or hype. I can kinda see how that was the perception. But, despite the fact that there's a lot I like from Brian's solo career, that perception and reality don't really meet. However, I wonder if Dr. Landy had not been involved, would we have gotten something like this One For the Boys Still Cruisin' Melt Away Kokomo Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long Island Girl Let It Shine Somewhere Near Japan In My Car Make It Big Little Children Love and Mercy The biggest problem with that ^ proposed tracklist is that Brian Wilson was released in July 1988 and Still Cruisin' was released in late August 1989 - more than a year later. I think a good 5-6 of the 1989 Sweet Insanity songs would've been a better fit with Still Cruisin'. The biggest stumbling block would've been Eugene Landy's and Alexandra Morgan's lyrics. What if The Beach Boys wanted no part of them or Mike Love wanted to inject his lyrics into Brian's songs?
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 2, 2022 22:18:09 GMT
And that ^ was part of why I hesitated a bit on this particular entry. If we go singles, the dates match well. If we go albums, it's either a year apart, or using an unreleased album.
Of course, once we're in a hypothetical world, it's all somewhat irrelevant, because by definition none of these albums would have been released, and even the material from either camp would have hopefully been somewhat different.
Regardless, had Brian been working with the band, there was obviously enough decent material that any late 80s or early 90s Beach Boys album could have been so much stronger than either camp's actually released work. Assuming Landy/Morgan weren't musically involved, that is.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 2, 2022 22:39:13 GMT
And that ^ was part of why I hesitated a bit on this particular entry. If we go singles, the dates match well. If we go albums, it's either a year apart, or using an unreleased album.
Of course, once we're in a hypothetical world, it's all somewhat irrelevant, because by definition none of these albums would have been released, and even the material from either camp would have hopefully been somewhat different.
Regardless, had Brian been working with the band, there was obviously enough decent material that any late 80s or early 90s Beach Boys album could have been so much stronger than either camp's actually released work. Assuming Landy/Morgan weren't musically involved, that is.
Yes, admittedly I fudged the rules of the thread by matching an album (Brian Wilson) with a single ("Kokomo") because I thought it would be...interesting. And, I do think that "matchup" was a real thing in the Beach Boys' world at the time, not an intentional showdown, but a showdown nevertheless. It just worked out that way. And Mike never let us forget it.
The amazing thing is that Still Cruisin' sold as much as it did. "Kokomo" was already over a year old. SOMETHING made that album sell! Maybe the power of "Kokomo" was greater than we thought.
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Post by kds on Aug 3, 2022 13:54:55 GMT
I can kinda see how that was the perception. But, despite the fact that there's a lot I like from Brian's solo career, that perception and reality don't really meet. However, I wonder if Dr. Landy had not been involved, would we have gotten something like this One For the Boys Still Cruisin' Melt Away Kokomo Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long Island Girl Let It Shine Somewhere Near Japan In My Car Make It Big Little Children Love and Mercy The biggest problem with that ^ proposed tracklist is that Brian Wilson was released in July 1988 and Still Cruisin' was released in late August 1989 - more than a year later. I think a good 5-6 of the 1989 Sweet Insanity songs would've been a better fit with Still Cruisin'. The biggest stumbling block would've been Eugene Landy's and Alexandra Morgan's lyrics. What if The Beach Boys wanted no part of them or Mike Love wanted to inject his lyrics into Brian's songs? Since we're talking a hypothetical album here, I don't think the real life timeline is as important.
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Post by kds on Aug 11, 2022 15:46:06 GMT
Just a couple years after the DLR v VH albums, we had a divided Pink Floyd. Roger Waters and David Gilmour each released solo albums in 1984, but at the time, it appeared as if Pink Floyd might be no more. They didn't even bother to tour on their The Final Cut album. In 1985, Waters announced he'd left the band, assuming that the band would cease to exist without him. Well, you know what happens with you assume. In 1986, David Gilmour and Nick Mason began work on a new Floyd album. Waters took the band to court. Richard Wright, who'd been dismissed from the band after The Wall tours was brought back into the fold to make a stronger case for Floyd, and Gilmour, Mason, and Wright beat Waters in court. In June 1987, Waters released his second solo album - Radio KAOS. In September 1987, Pink Floyd released A Momentary Lapse of Reason. While both albums have some 80s trappings, the Floyd album has held up far better. KAOS is almost devoid of notable lead guitar work while MLOR is a showcase for Gilmour's soloing. KAOS finds Waters voice much more hoarse than on previous albums. MLOR sees Gilmour in fine vocal form. Waters and Floyd embarked on competing tours. Floyd had no trouble selling tickets to arenas and even stadiums. Waters struggled to sell tickets, and wouldn't tour again until 1999, when Floyd were off the road. Radio KAOS does have some solid songs buried underneath the dated sound, like The Powers That Be and Home. MLOR includes songs that have become Floyd classics like On the Turning Away and Sorrow, as well as Learning to Fly, which has become a classic rock staple. Since the discussion of BW 88 v Kokomo / Still Cruisin seems to have died down, I'm bumping my previous grudge match of Roger Waters v. Pink Floyd.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 17, 2022 14:55:57 GMT
This thread keeps falling off my radar, but I am listening to the Waters/Floyd albums today. (I've never heard either in its entirety, so this will be a first-take assessment.)
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Post by kds on Aug 17, 2022 15:43:14 GMT
I actually haven't listened to Radio KAOS in full in 20 years. Apparently, Waters resurrected The Powers That Be from that album on his current tour. He hasn't played that song, or anything from Radio KAOS, since 1999.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 17, 2022 19:26:24 GMT
This situation ends up feeling to me a lot more like the Wilson/Beach Boys example than the Roth/Van Halen example. In the latter, I think the time for a change had come and both parties came out of it in a good place with good work. In the former, I thought both parties suffered from the situation. That's how I feel about this one.
To be fair, I am only a modest Pink Floyd fan. I've always known and liked The Wall (literally always: my older sister had it, and so "Another Brick in the Wall pt 2" and "Comfortably Numb," among others, were familiar to me as long as I can remember), and I've long-since had their 70s classics. But I can't pretend to be all that enthusiastic otherwise. So take it all with a grain of salt.
But an album of Roger Waters maybe predictably struck me as almost unbearable. It's odd that I go to Robert Christgau for a good summary (in that he's a lunatic), but he said "I have serious reservations about any record that can't be enjoyed unless you sit there reading the inner sleeve." And that's how I usually feel about concept albums to begin with, to say nothing of Waters's heavy handed, preachy style. I'm also just not a fan of all the sound effects he is so fond of, to say nothing of the seriously dated production. I really did not like this album.
The Pink Floyd album sounds better, though it's still dated (if to a lesser degree). On the other hand, Gilmour isn't a lead singer who can carry an album. (I'm not sure Waters is, either, but between the two of them, it worked out.) I didn't hate this album, by any means, but it felt longer than it was, which is I think about 50 minutes. Kind of samey. And what's more, it turns out it was a bit of a solo album, too, with Mason and Wright barely contributing.
Beyond the music, reading up on their squabbling was really depressing! My god, those guys seemed like the Beach Boys. And while I thought it was mostly Waters, it seems Gilmour was a bit of a jerk even to the guys on "his team."
So this situation fits the full saying from which thread title is taken, in my mind: a house divided cannot stand. (Though I suppose both houses did stand: Floyd kept going, Waters kept going, neither camp is starving or homeless. But I can't pretend to think either side is musically better for it.)
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Post by kds on Aug 17, 2022 19:54:33 GMT
As a Floyd fan, I actually think both parties wound up better for the split.
I think, by 1985, Waters's ego had grown to the point where he'd no longer welcome input from Gilmour, which is a shame because much of the music Waters wrote post Floyd is really lacking in melody.
I do think both Waters and Floyd would follow up their respective 1987 albums with better albums. Both Waters's Amused to Death (1992) and Floyd's The Division Bell (1994) threw aside the dated late 80s trappings, and offered more of an organic sound. Roger recruited Jeff Beck for several songs to add some notable lead guitar work (mostly missing from KAOS). Gilmour brought Richard Wright back into the fold as a writer, and Wright cowrote about half of the music on The Division Bell.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 17, 2022 20:00:04 GMT
I guess I wouldn't argue on the personal level especially: as I always say with the Beach Boys, they should do whatever they want to do to live the lives they want to live. So if people can't get along, they shouldn't force themselves together.
On a musical level, I have (I think?) but haven't listened to The Final Cut in forever, so I can't compare these albums to what came immediately before. I do know Waters was known to take more and more control as time goes on, and so unless a person felt like being a hired hand, I would want to exit that situation, too (or push his ass out).
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Post by kds on Aug 17, 2022 20:04:03 GMT
I guess I wouldn't argue on the personal level especially: as I always say with the Beach Boys, they should do whatever they want to do to live the lives they want to live. So if people can't get along, they shouldn't force themselves together.
On a musical level, I have (I think?) but haven't listened to The Final Cut in forever, so I can't compare these albums to what came immediately before. I do know Waters was known to take more and more control as time goes on, and so unless a person felt like being a hired hand, I would want to exit that situation, too (or push his ass out).
On a musical level, my best argument for the split is actually on The Division Bell. With Wright cowriting music, that album has more of a classic Floyd feel not really present as much on AMLOR. I only wish Pink Floyd had properly followed that up.
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