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Post by Kapitan on Jul 8, 2023 12:47:29 GMT
Their songs? I find them underwhelming. Long and plodding at times. Very un-Beach Boys-like. I would've preferred songs by the other Beach Boys. I think it's unfortunate that we really never saw the styles blend. They were one of several mini-bands in the band at that time, and their songs were as unique to them as Dennis's were to Dennis--those songs didn't sound like other Beach Boys songs, either--and so on. For me, it's not hard to imagine Carl, Dennis, Blondie, and Ricky finding something over time, a blend of their styles. I think it would have been very good for the times, had it happened. Alas...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 8, 2023 12:56:50 GMT
Their songs? I find them underwhelming. Long and plodding at times. Very un-Beach Boys-like. I would've preferred songs by the other Beach Boys. I think it's unfortunate that we really never saw the styles blend. They were one of several mini-bands in the band at that time, and their songs were as unique to them as Dennis's were to Dennis--those songs didn't sound like other Beach Boys songs, either--and so on. For me, it's not hard to imagine Carl, Dennis, Blondie, and Ricky finding something over time, a blend of their styles. I think it would have been very good for the times, had it happened. Alas... I agree. And as much as I am critical of Blondie and Ricky's songwriting/vocal contributions, I would not have minded if they would've hung in there and, as you say, blended their styles. But, jeez, there would've been so many obstacles. How would've Brian integrated them into his "sound" when he returned as producer? How would've they fit - or even wanted to perform - a set dominated by Beach Boys' oldies? But, yeah, it would've been cool to hear as the 1970s progressed.
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 8, 2023 14:39:49 GMT
I think it's unfortunate that we really never saw the styles blend. They were one of several mini-bands in the band at that time, and their songs were as unique to them as Dennis's were to Dennis--those songs didn't sound like other Beach Boys songs, either--and so on. For me, it's not hard to imagine Carl, Dennis, Blondie, and Ricky finding something over time, a blend of their styles. I think it would have been very good for the times, had it happened. Alas... I agree. And as much as I am critical of Blondie and Ricky's songwriting/vocal contributions, I would not have minded if they would've hung in there and, as you say, blended their styles. But, jeez, there would've been so many obstacles. How would've Brian integrated them into his "sound" when he returned as producer? How would've they fit - or even wanted to perform - a set dominated by Beach Boys' oldies? But, yeah, it would've been cool to hear as the 1970s progressed. I'm not sure that's so different from what already happened anyway. The band had already strayed from the oldies/hits sound by the late 60s and early 70s. The live shows incorporated both new, different styles and of course the hits. Ricky and Blondie were in the early-to-mid 70s already a part of that. They were playing "The Trader," "Long Promised Road," "We Got Love," "Leaving This Town," "Don't Worry Bill," "It's About Time," etc., right alongside "I Get Around," "Surfin' USA," and "Fun Fun Fun." Look at the Carnegie concert from Sail On Sailor. What's the difference if more of the new material were written or co-written by Ricky and Blondie? As for how Brian would have integrated them, well, he was already doing some of that on his (few) contributions in that era. "He Come Down," "Sail On Sailor," "Marcella," "Mess of Help," "Funky Pretty," and such incorporated their voices and instrumentation. Now, when he returned again with "Brian's Back"? Well, he'd have "integrated" them the same way he did Dennis's and Carl's and Al's and Mike's contributions/style/gifts: very little. He was doing his own synth-oldies thing regardless. It isn't as if Brian returned and dominated the group, anyway. He returned to do a couple of albums that weren't especially well received (one minor hit that nobody seemed to like; one dud that gets credit long after the fact), and then faded away anyway, contributing shells of songs that everyone else finished for him anyway. So that's just two more talented musicians to finish his songs.
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nater414
Denny's Drums
Posts: 26
Likes: 45
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Post by nater414 on Jul 11, 2023 1:01:01 GMT
Amazing point Kapitan, very well put. I think what we got from BW in the 70s is what we would have gotten with commercial success or not. He was clearly inspired to do that "synth oldies" (great way to put it) sound during 15BO and LY, before expanding on that sound and incorporating Big Band and Punk into AC, before the reigns were pulled away once again, and as you put, he contributed 'shells of songs that everyone else finished for him' and that has, for the most part, been the case ever since. (With notable exceptions like his Christmas album)
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Post by Kapitan on Jul 11, 2023 13:15:21 GMT
It's because of that--the fact that Brian was going to do what he did, for better and for worse--that I think continuing with Ricky and Blondie would have been ideal. The quartet of those two plus the other two Wilsons, I think, would have been more than capable of making solid, timely music.
Great music? Uhh...that's to people's tastes. But Holland is pretty well liked. Pacific Ocean Blue is among many people's favorites. Increasingly, people seem to really champion Carl's and Dennis's LA music. I see Ricky and Blondie as making music that fits in those approximate ballparks. They could have kept the overall presentation a little more in the "cool rock band [that also plays oldies]" area, as opposed to the increasingly Love-led group that just began to feel more square--great as they could be.
(It's funny, because the early '70s bands played oldies; and the later '70s bands played new music. It wasn't as if it were an on/off switch. But it does seem that more of the musicians were Love's guys, like Ron Altbach and Charles Lloyd; while fewer were Carl's. It would be fun to dig into who brought in whom, when, why, etc., sometime. But it does feel like there was an effort to bolster the "clean living" camp as the '70s wore on ... though the Wilsons didn't get that memo!)
Anyway, the idea here is just that there might have been more quality continuity had the Flame guys stuck around. Instead, I contend there was always a push and pull, a "throwing stuff at the wall," a taking of turns with the albums. Brian gets one, Mike and Al get one, Carl and Dennis get one; an oldies album, a strange album, a nostalgic album, a progressive album; a raw album, a polished album; and so on. The '70s, and especially the post-Holland '70s in particular, never really had much continuity, probably a combination of lack of success and relatively even factions in the group. Perhaps had there been a core quartet of Chaplin, Fataar, C Wilson and D Wilson, that could have developed. (Of course it also could have broken the band entirely, depending on how Love and Jardine would have felt about it.)
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 15, 2023 5:57:00 GMT
The early 70's was an interesting time for a lot of veteran artists trying to compete with a legendary past. Paul McCartney, for example. He forms a new band, Wings, and on their early tours they don't do ANY Beatles songs, unless you count Long Tall Sally. The entire show is focused on songs recorded by Wings or Paul solo. The only real oldies in the shows are Lucille, Blue Moon of Kentucky, and Denny Laine singing his Moody Blues hit Go Now. Even when they make it to the US in 76, Beatles songs are only a small part of their show. Or you have Rick Nelson, with the Stone Canyon Band, playing a few of the old favorites like Hello Mary Lou and I'm Walkin', but mostly doing new songs written by Rick, Bob Dylan songs, Tim Hardin songs. And it seems to me that this was the last era these artists could get away with this. By the end of the 70's, Rick is back to playing mostly his old hits, and only a few new songs. The Beach Boys are back to playing mostly their old hits, and only a few newer things. Even Paul McCartney, when he starts touring as a solo artist in 1989, is doing a show that's 75% Beatles songs, only a few Wings songs, and a few new things (to promote Flowers in the Dirt - and then those songs are never heard in his concerts again). Yeah, the early 70's seemed to be all about freedom! Freedom to explore, try out new songs, grow as an artist, freedom to express yourself. I think, if Blondie and Ricky had stayed, the Beach Boys would have continued on in the direction they started with Holland. Instead, the overwhelming success of Endless Summer nearly dictated that their next album be a return to fun in the sun themes, so we got 15 Big Ones. But even the people that bought and loved 15 BO could not have been prepared for what followed that! "pat, pat, pat pat pat her on her butt..." "well, oh my, oh gosh oh gee..." "Johnny Carson is a real live wire"
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