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Post by Kapitan on Mar 20, 2019 22:54:40 GMT
Looking over the track list for the first time in a while, you'd think this would make my top half-dozen or so Beach Boys albums. Alas, what a difference the versions of the songs makes: for me, while they were the first versions I heard*, these are not "Wind Chimes" or "Wonderful." (Neither is it my favorite "Heroes and Villains," but that one is closer to the mark, anyway.)
I know the whole druggy-but-bare-bones psychedelia is admired in some corners, but I think it's a pretty boring album, to be honest. It sounds to me like a great band underachieving. It can't be too bad, not with "Heroes" and "Good Vibrations." I love "Vegetables," too, dumb as it is: it's fun. (Then again, I'm the guy who keeps going to bat for "Take a Load Off Your Feet.") "With Me Tonight" is beautiful. But most of the rest is either inconsequential, bad, or both.
That said, I cherished my first copy, a French import CD that had some Smile outtakes on it, both finished songs and sessions. Early in my fandom and seriously on the lookout for that material, it was fabulous. I used to play it for everyone to prove this new discovery of mine: the Beach Boys aren't exclusively lame! Kind of funny that some of that same material is now what I find most lame of theirs. Still, far from their worst.
*I might be imagining this, but it seems I could have heard a snippet of the Smile "Wonderful" from the '90s GV box as part of a Wilson documentary I saw in the late '90s. But I don't know.
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Post by kds on Mar 24, 2019 3:57:39 GMT
Whenever I think I completely mucked up something in my life, I play this album and remember that The Beach Boys followed up Pet Sounds with this.
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Post by sebevedomy on Mar 24, 2019 7:53:58 GMT
I like it, I like it quite a bit. Once you accept it as deliberately insconsequential, it's ok. Hey, I've seen doodles by fucking Picasso and plates with, like, fingerpainting on them: this is much better than those.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 10, 2020 0:51:14 GMT
I love it. Sometimes when I play it, I wonder what it would sound like on LSD. Don't know where I would get some, though; and would be too scared to try if I did.
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Post by B.E. on Nov 16, 2020 17:42:44 GMT
I love this version of "Heroes and Villains" but it definitely took some time for me not to miss the 'cantina' section. The BWPS version was actually the first one I became acquainted with. The 1995 GH comp that I grew up with, which is largely chronological, follows up "Good Vibrations" not with "Heroes and Villains" but..."409". Go figure.
As for "She's Goin' Bald", it's only the sped up bit that I don't care for.
Being aware of the criticisms of SS before hearing it, I actually was pleasantly surprised. I like the sparse aethetic as well, but there's still a lot to savor. Hearing the stereo mix a few years later revealed further depth.
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zinczag
The Surfer Moon
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Post by zinczag on Nov 16, 2020 19:59:01 GMT
I know I'm more than an year late to the discussion, but I'd like to raise some points here. As for my personal thoughts on Smiley Smile, it's one of my favourite BB's albums ever, and it's very special to me because it was the first album of the band I listened to in it's entirety, and I couldn't stop listening to it. I like the sparse sound aesthetic of it. I consider this album's 'Heroes and Villains' the best version of the song. I love almost every track here to be honest, the only one I don't care much is 'She's Goin' Bald' but it doesn't affect how the album flows. I know this isn't a 'album rating' post but if it was I'd easily give it a 9.5 ~ 9.7 or even a 10 depending on my mood. Agree with this bit. SGB ain't favorite to this Smiley Smile fan as well. 👊👍 SS "Wind Chimes" rules.😎 Cool rating.✊
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 17, 2020 14:16:55 GMT
I think that an album like Smiley Smile was the only reasonable release for The Beach Boys at that moment in time. That's an interesting idea / question for consideration.
The reason I disagree is that while it was a hurried project, they re-recorded (what I would consider inferior) versions of a few songs. Sure, it's one thing to say you can't expect them to quickly write a bunch of new songs. But it's faster to use the Smile versions of "H&V," "Wonderful," "Vegetables," and "Wind Chimes" than it is to re-record new ones. And "Our Prayer" and "Cabinessence" were certainly nearly done, if not quite done.
So even if you've decided not to release the music as Smile, you can create a much better album just by using material you've already got. You take the above, add "Good Vibrations," and flesh it out with the same sorts of things on Smiley Smile--"Woody Woodpecker Symphony," "She's Goin Bald" (or "He Gives Speeches"), "With Me Tonight," and in my opinion you've got a much, much better album. One of their best albums, in fact. All without Brian having to "complete Smile."
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 18, 2020 1:18:59 GMT
I'll have to think of what I'd have done specifically. But in my scenario here, you can dismiss the idea of piecing it together, at least in the sense you'd have with Smile. No magical sequence, no theoretical journey in a near-concept album, no insights into any of that required. I'm granting that Brian is freaked out and not especially helpful (much less VDP or anyone) for this exercise. What I'm imagining here is just making an album, Smiley Smile if you like. Same kind of thing they did with the Smile stuff on 20/20, but sooner.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 18, 2020 20:35:48 GMT
I think I'd probably have put out a Smiley Smile along the lines of this, assuming we're using what was done or could easily have been finished and not getting much out of Brian beyond what we know he did do (e.g. not asking him to sequence Smile).
1. Our Prayer 2. Heroes and Villains (any cantina version) 3. With Me Tonight 4. He Gives Speeches 5. Vega-tables (don't care which version) 6. Little Pad
7. Cabin Essence
8. Good Vibrations 9. Wonderful (GV box version) 10. Wind Chimes (GV box version)
11. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter 12. Surf's Up 13. Whistle In
Not married to it, but that kind of idea. For me, there is just no question that the resulting album is far, far superior than what was released. In fact, just swap out Wind Chimes and Wonderful for Smile versions and I think you've got a far better album, even without using other brilliant, then-unused material (e.g. Cabinessence, Surf's Up). But I see no good reason for not using it. I know Brian was freaked out, but Brian was sick. He'd have gotten over it ... especially when the world reacted positively to that stuff, which they would've.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 18, 2020 20:39:40 GMT
Got to toot my own horn: "Little Pad" into "Cabin Essence" to close Side One really works well. Especially LP into CE specifically!
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Post by kds on Nov 18, 2020 20:41:24 GMT
I think I'd probably have put out a Smiley Smile along the lines of this, assuming we're using what was done or could easily have been finished and not getting much out of Brian beyond what we know he did do (e.g. not asking him to sequence Smile).
1. Our Prayer 2. Heroes and Villains (any cantina version) 3. With Me Tonight 4. He Gives Speeches 5. Vega-tables (don't care which version) 6. Wind Chimes (GV box version) 7. Cabin Essence
8. Good Vibrations 9. Wonderful (GV box version) 10. Little Pad 11. Fall Breaks and Back to Winter 12. Surf's Up 13. Whistle In
Not married to it, but that kind of idea. For me, there is just no question that the resulting album is far, far superior than what was released. In fact, just swap out Wind Chimes and Wonderful for Smile versions and I think you've got a far better album, even without using other brilliant, then-unused material (e.g. Cabinessence, Surf's Up). But I see no good reason for not using it. I know Brian was freaked out, but Brian was sick. He'd have gotten over it ... especially when the world reacted positively to that stuff, which they would've.
I'd have to say that's miles better than the real Smiley Smile. That would probably double the rating I typically assign to it (4).
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 18, 2020 20:54:05 GMT
Published too quickly. Fiddled more. And now more still. Main point remains unchanged.
1. Prayer 2. H&V 3. With Me Tonight 4. Speeches 5. Wonderful 6. LP 7. Cabin
8. GV 9. Veg 10. Wind 11. Woodpecker 12. Surf's Up 13. Whistle In
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 0:33:52 GMT
Published too quickly. Fiddled more. And now more still. Main point remains unchanged.
1. Prayer 2. H&V 3. With Me Tonight 4. Speeches 5. Wonderful 6. LP 7. Cabin
8. GV 9. Veg 10. Wind 11. Woodpecker 12. Surf's Up 13. Whistle In
Boy, am I ever late to this discussion! But hey, as you know I'm still catching up on this forum. Smiley Smile is probably the most perplexing 1960s BBs album to me. I agree with many of the criticisms in this thread, especially where inferior versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes were hastily recorded and released instead of the Smile versions. BTW, I actually like the Smiley version of Vegetables over its Smile counterpart, and believe it could have had single potential. With that in mind, I can see the above track list resulting in a much improved album. I don't know if I could love it, and we have no way of knowing if it would have fared better in 1967. I do have one disagreement, though. I can't stand She's Going Bald or He Gives Speeches in any way, shape or form. Bald is just too weird for me (yes, even me!) with the sped up part and the rapid tempo shifts. And Brian's caterwauling behind the main part of Speeches just grates, man! So what would I suggest to replace it? The only thing that seems to be missing is Gettin' Hungry. Yes, I know that one sounds more like a Wild Honey tune. And in all reality it's a so-so tune. The choruses are ok, but the verses are pretty weak. What do you think on GH, Kapitan? Save it for the WH album? Single only (a one-off for "Brian and Mike")?
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Post by jk on Jun 2, 2021 10:05:52 GMT
Boy, am I ever late to this discussion! But hey, as you know I'm still catching up on this forum. No worries, sockit. This is cyberspace, where time stands still. And you got here earlier than I did! As someone who bought it at the time I have one or two things to say about SS, but not right now...
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 2, 2021 11:40:06 GMT
So what would I suggest to replace it? The only thing that seems to be missing is Gettin' Hungry. Yes, I know that one sounds more like a Wild Honey tune. And in all reality it's a so-so tune. The choruses are ok, but the verses are pretty weak. What do you think on GH, Kapitan? Save it for the WH album? Single only (a one-off for "Brian and Mike")? I wish they'd finished "Gettin Hungry." I mean, I know they did finish it ... but I mean take some more time and do a bit more with it. As it is, it sounds like a transition from Smiley Smile to Wild Honey: verses the former, choruses the latter. But I think the verses sound stupid, frankly, and the choruses rudimentary and incomplete, like a demo.
So I'd leave it off SS, and either improve upon it for later inclusion or skip it altogether and let it lie in the vaults, where quite frankly it would be surrounded by plenty of music that was superior to it and yet unreleased for decades.
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