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Post by kds on Nov 10, 2021 17:09:37 GMT
I firmly believe that with the unlimited resources they have for musicians and studio time and Technology and collaboration that if the surviving Beach Boys all got together in the studio, and they wrote down on the yellow sheet of paper with a pen various songs that would make a final Beast Boy album and then planned how each would be arranged with what musicians and with what Beach Boys singing and playing what parts that they would come up with a fine, final, thoughtful, collaborative and important album. I'm not saying that's impossible. But, when was the last time that really happened in regards to a Beach Boys album?
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 10, 2021 17:32:25 GMT
I'd say that even if they agreed to that idea, it would not happen. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but realistic. They would bicker over whose songs made the album, covers or originals, what style, what producer, what musicians. Individuals' management would be involved. Hell, lawyers would likely be involved. The result would be a split-the-baby compromise, as has been the case on everything they've tried to do as a unit for almost 50 years.
What is technically possible--i.e., they could do take that approach and make a very good, final album--and what is realistic are far apart.
Really I think that it's pretty clear what we're getting, with the details being the fuzzy part. There will be a show or shows, but we already have heard from various people that it's likely to be more tribute than Beach Boys; and more likely a single show, a few shows, a limited run, than a tour. There will be a documentary. It seems likely there will be recorded product, but more likely a new song or two tacked on to a doc soundtrack or something than a full album.
That's not my preference, but I'll take what we get. And I'm not getting my hopes up for what is at best the minuscule chance of some highly unlikely brilliant finale. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised. That would be wonderful.
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Post by kds on Nov 10, 2021 17:53:34 GMT
I'd say that even if they agreed to that idea, it would not happen. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but realistic. They would bicker over whose songs made the album, covers or originals, what style, what producer, what musicians. Individuals' management would be involved. Hell, lawyers would likely be involved. The result would be a split-the-baby compromise, as has been the case on everything they've tried to do as a unit for almost 50 years.
What is technically possible--i.e., they could do take that approach and make a very good, final album--and what is realistic are far apart.
Really I think that it's pretty clear what we're getting, with the details being the fuzzy part. There will be a show or shows, but we already have heard from various people that it's likely to be more tribute than Beach Boys; and more likely a single show, a few shows, a limited run, than a tour. There will be a documentary. It seems likely there will be recorded product, but more likely a new song or two tacked on to a doc soundtrack or something than a full album.
That's not my preference, but I'll take what we get. And I'm not getting my hopes up for what is at best the minuscule chance of some highly unlikely brilliant finale. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised. That would be wonderful.
That's the biggest issue to me. You're never going to have just Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and whatever other former members / touring members in a room banging out songs. The Beach Boys are far too complicated for that.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 10, 2021 18:01:19 GMT
What's more, we have no real reason to believe they have on-demand songwriting ability anymore. Brian has spoken about writer's block more often than not since at least the '90s. Yes, he has written new material, and it's sometimes really good. But just because he has written a ton of great material in the past, that doesn't mean he could sit down with Mike at 2 pm on some Tuesday and bang out a great song.
Al is the slowest composer alive, from all appearances.
Bruce's main modern work that we know of his his mid-00s reworking of a mid-80s song they already released.
David was never a compositional force in the band, and hasn't released a new album in 15 years. (I'm not familiar with it, and don't know how much of it he wrote or when.)
Even Mike, whose lyrics would lead you to think he could churn them out in no time, has been releasing far, far more old material (both released and unreleased) than new even on his new albums.
As much as I understand the appeal of a "getting back together and doing it the way they used to" idea, that has been a common sentiment about this band since 1968's "Do It Again" ... but also a mostly unrealized ideal since that same song. Fifty-three, 54 years later, I don't see the easy camaraderie bringing back the magic of nearly 60 years ago.
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Post by kds on Nov 10, 2021 18:06:24 GMT
What's more, we have no real reason to believe they have on-demand songwriting ability anymore. Brian has spoken about writer's block more often than not since at least the '90s. Yes, he has written new material, and it's sometimes really good. But just because he has written a ton of great material in the past, that doesn't mean he could sit down with Mike at 2 pm on some Tuesday and bang out a great song.
Al is the slowest composer alive, from all appearances.
Bruce's main modern work that we know of his his mid-00s reworking of a mid-80s song they already released.
David was never a compositional force in the band, and hasn't released a new album in 15 years. (I'm not familiar with it, and don't know how much of it he wrote or when.)
Even Mike, whose lyrics would lead you to think he could churn them out in no time, has been releasing far, far more old material (both released and unreleased) than new even on his new albums.
As much as I understand the appeal of a "getting back together and doing it the way they used to" idea, that has been a common sentiment about this band since 1968's "Do It Again" ... but also a mostly unrealized ideal since that same song. Fifty-three, 54 years later, I don't see the easy camaraderie bringing back the magic of nearly 60 years ago.
We're not a legendary band, but if my close friends and I tried to get together and party like we did when we were in our 20s, the results wouldn't be pretty.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 10, 2021 18:10:28 GMT
And there's a lot less water under your bridges, and a LOT less at stake financially for all involved if you do so. Wishing for simplicity of the olden days is common: it's really what nostalgia is all about. I get it.
I just do not think it's going to happen. But I will say again, if it does? I'll be first in line to admit I was wrong, and that I'm delighted to be wrong. Of course, nothing would make me happier than the group truly getting together, truly writing truly new music together, and truly performing it at a high level. No smoke and mirrors. No blatant promotional nonsense like "it sounds/feels like 1965 again," as they kept saying in 2012. A real, new, great album. If that happens, I'll say I was wrong and apologize for my skepticism.
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Post by kds on Nov 10, 2021 19:01:14 GMT
And there's a lot less water under your bridges, and a LOT less at stake financially for all involved if you do so. Wishing for simplicity of the olden days is common: it's really what nostalgia is all about. I get it.
I just do not think it's going to happen. But I will say again, if it does? I'll be first in line to admit I was wrong, and that I'm delighted to be wrong. Of course, nothing would make me happier than the group truly getting together, truly writing truly new music together, and truly performing it at a high level. No smoke and mirrors. No blatant promotional nonsense like "it sounds/feels like 1965 again," as they kept saying in 2012. A real, new, great album. If that happens, I'll say I was wrong and apologize for my skepticism.
I'd love to be proven wrong here too, but it feels like everything that's been said (so far) about C60 feels more like a victory lap than anything new.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2021 4:47:23 GMT
I'll tell you one thing I've never heard of good interview with all the beach boys together. Very rarely. Interviewers are usually idiots who ask stupid ignorant questions and the beach boys who are extremely smart, sense this early and then go into just basic mode of repeating cliches. One of the worst interviews I've ever heard and any medium is the Sirius XM radio interview by Rob Reiner who rattled on about himself endlessly, knew nothing about the Beach Boys, and asked stupid questions which the audience repeated because they had questions already and they were the same as the questions he had asked, and the whole thing was a disaster and the Beach Boys didn't like it and just played along I guess and spun cliches. I would really like to see some of the scholars on this board sit down with the five or seven surviving Beach Boys and ask real important meaningful questions while they're in each other's presence and contributing thoughtfully together to unravel the mysteries of their emotional and musical history
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 11, 2021 5:02:45 GMT
Just a passing though: Brian pretty much got his way with TWGMTR. It was basically a BW solo album with the other BB's as guest singers. So how about we turn this one over to the other guys? Yeah, I know, Al is the slowest composer in the world, so how about just retooling Waves of Love or Don't Fight the Sea. Mike could come up with something new, but he'll probably want to re-record something from the past; would it be worth attempting a new version of Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue? Has Bruce written anything in the last 20 years? What's David got? Hmm, the more I think this over, maybe not such a great idea.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2021 6:26:31 GMT
Well if we got hold of the other songs that were recorded for radio you would see a beach boy recording of song that was on one of Dave's solo albums called stowaway. From his really wonderful solo album, I think about you often. It's a nice song on one of Dave's albums and Dave sings it really well but I heard that when the Beach Boys tried it that it was just not a successful song. But there must be at least a half a dozen songs that they recorded together for radio that no one's ever heard and I don't know who the writers were. If the Beach got together in a room... Well I said that already.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Nov 11, 2021 12:23:10 GMT
Just a passing though: Brian pretty much got his way with TWGMTR. It was basically a BW solo album with the other BB's as guest singers. So how about we turn this one over to the other guys? Yeah, I know, Al is the slowest composer in the world, so how about just retooling Waves of Love or Don't Fight the Sea. Mike could come up with something new, but he'll probably want to re-record something from the past; would it be worth attempting a new version of Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue? Has Bruce written anything in the last 20 years? What's David got? Hmm, the more I think this over, maybe not such a great idea. No, it is a good idea and one I've been beating into the ground for the last few YEARS. For some members - Mike, Al, Bruce, David, maybe Blondie - all you would be asking for is one (or their best) song. Just one song! Certainly all of those guys have to have one song stored somewhere that they would love to get recorded BY THE BEACH BOYS and put on an album. That gives you five songs right out of the gate. Add to that two covers and you're up to seven. Now all you need need is a contribution - say, five songs - from Brian. We know Brian. When didn't he have a couple of good songs in the can?
To me, for a new album of new material, the main or only stumbling block is Mike wanting to write songs with Brian. And we can't take that lightly. Yes, they are both 79 or 80, and their days, especially Brian's days of being prolific are in the past. And, there's a chance they don't even LIKE EACH OTHER enough to co-exist in a studio. But I keep having this idea, probably a fantasy. What if you teamed up Brian and Mike for a couple of days or a week or so, in a studio somewhere (Al's barn...or Hawaii...or in Brian's house...or in Mike's mansion) - WITH A JOE THOMAS OR A DARIAN SAHANAJA OR A PAUL MERTENS - for the purpose of writing just two new songs. Two new songs. Is that possible? Will that please Mike?
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Post by kds on Nov 11, 2021 12:51:31 GMT
There was a time when Brian always had something in the can, but I'm less sure that would be the case now.
I think any new BB material would require assistance from the likes of Joe Thomas, Jim Peteric, or perhaps some new blood to the BB world ie. Desmond Child, Jeff Lynne, Dave Coulier, etc.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 11, 2021 12:58:31 GMT
There was a time when Brian always had something in the can, but I'm less sure that would be the case now. I think any new BB material would require assistance from the likes of Joe Thomas, Jim Peteric, or perhaps some new blood to the BB world ie. Desmond Child, Jeff Lynne, Dave Coulier, etc. Cut. It. Out!
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 11, 2021 21:28:09 GMT
I don't think the problem is that Mike and Brian don't like each other. If you could remove the handlers, the wives, etc, I think Mike and Brian would get along just fine. Whether that would lead to good songs or not, I have no clue. I miss Carl everyday. In the past, he seemed to be able to bring the warring factions together - except when he was in one of the warring factions. Or maybe we need Van Dyke Parks to come in and say "cut the crap, Brian, cut it out! You're gonna sit down and write this song right now!" And Brian's response would probably be "Van Dyke, bring me three milkshakes and a steak, and then we'll have world peace".
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 11, 2021 21:39:08 GMT
Regarding VDP, I get the feeling that around or shortly after That Lucky Old Sun Van Dyke soured somewhat on being associated with Brian Wilson.
It seems to me, just going off of his interviews (and voluminous tweets!), that he has in the past 10+ years been far faster to praise other of his old colleagues: Harry Nilsson, about whom he said something like "he's the REAL genius of that era" or something, I don't recall the quote (but to someone like me, obviously I took it as almost a jab saying Brian wasn't); he continues to work with younger artists and praise them; he talks about people like Phil Ochs a lot; and so on.
He doesn't really speak as much or as kindly about Brian. At least it seems that way to me. Maybe he just got sick of being asked about or lumped in with him for what, in the grand scheme of things were just a few, relatively brief periods of long and varied careers.
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