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Post by Kapitan on Jan 3, 2021 15:10:50 GMT
Personally I think Brian Wilson is one of his weakest solo albums in terms of songwriting. I really like some of it, to be sure. But other aspects I find pretty mediocre, from the hugely overrated "Rio Grande" to the tedious "One For the Boys."
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Post by B.E. on Jan 3, 2021 15:19:03 GMT
Personally I think Brian Wilson is one of his weakest solo albums in terms of songwriting. I really like some of it, to be sure. But other aspects I find pretty mediocre, from the hugely overrated "Rio Grande" to the tedious "One For the Boys." I'll grant an annoyingly mediocre "Night Time" and a pleasantly mediocre "Little Children", but nearly all BW solo albums have their mediocre low points.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 3, 2021 15:20:42 GMT
Personally I think Brian Wilson is one of his weakest solo albums in terms of songwriting. I really like some of it, to be sure. But other aspects I find pretty mediocre, from the hugely overrated "Rio Grande" to the tedious "One For the Boys." I'll grant an annoyingly mediocre "Night Time" and a pleasantly mediocre "Little Children", but nearly all BW solo albums have their mediocre low points. I think I'd have to quibble with the one word...
That's not particular criticism of BW, either. Most albums by most people, including the greats, have their share of mediocrity. There are only so many '10s.'
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 3, 2021 15:36:19 GMT
Regarding Brian Wilson, I find "One For The Boys", "Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long", "Night Time", and parts of "Rio Grande" to be sub-standard Brian Wilson songwriting. And, "Walkin' The Line" and "Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight" (which is mostly Andy Paley's) ain't much better. I've always found the Brian Wilson songs overrated.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 3, 2021 15:42:07 GMT
I'll grant an annoyingly mediocre "Night Time" and a pleasantly mediocre "Little Children", but nearly all BW solo albums have their mediocre low points. I think I'd have to quibble with the one word...
That's not particular criticism of BW, either. Most albums by most people, including the greats, have their share of mediocrity. There are only so many '10s.'
Yeah, that was a last second edit on my part. But, the reason I added "nearly" is because I think That Lucky Old Sun has a higher floor - especially if we are only considering the proper songs. Then there are albums like Disney, where there's not a "Night Time" or "Runaway Dancer" or whichever song(s) standout to you in a particularly bad way.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 3, 2021 16:01:04 GMT
A few of the songs are only OK, songs that sound to me like Brian was just painting by numbers, Songwriting 101 if you will. Those would be "Desert Drive", "Rainbow Eyes", "How Could We Still Be Dancing", and the title track. Nothing special there but they're not terrible. Then there's some what I consider to be really strong BW songs - "City Blues", Make A Wish", "Soul Searchin'", "Saturday Morning In The City", "Fairy Tale", and "Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel". "A Friend Like You", "You've Touched Me", and "The Waltz" are somewhere in between. They really would've benefited from better lyrics. To echo Kapitan, it is funny (and, obviously, not in a dismissive way), because while I don't necessarily agree with your categorization of each song, I kinda "get" where you are coming from on each one...EXCEPT...the title track. I don't know what you're not hearing, but you're clearly not hearing it!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 3, 2021 16:12:59 GMT
A few of the songs are only OK, songs that sound to me like Brian was just painting by numbers, Songwriting 101 if you will. Those would be "Desert Drive", "Rainbow Eyes", "How Could We Still Be Dancing", and the title track. Nothing special there but they're not terrible. Then there's some what I consider to be really strong BW songs - "City Blues", Make A Wish", "Soul Searchin'", "Saturday Morning In The City", "Fairy Tale", and "Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel". "A Friend Like You", "You've Touched Me", and "The Waltz" are somewhere in between. They really would've benefited from better lyrics. To echo Kapitan, it is funny (and obviously not in a dismissive way), because while I don't necessarily agree with your categorization of each song, I kinda "get" where you are coming from on each one...EXCEPT...the title track. I don't know what you're not hearing, but you're clearly not hearing it! "Gettin' In Over My Head" might be the only song on the album that I really don't care for. I just find it bland. It reminds me of a song where Brian simply had this idea of another love song where he meets a girl and is infatuated. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Brian Wilson has written songs based on that concept that are some of the greatest in pop music history. But the song doesn't go anywhere. Verse, chorus, verse, chorus, blah, blah, blah...The lyrics are too wordy, too. Sorry.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 3, 2021 16:18:59 GMT
No need to be sorry, but you guys have all experienced that, too, right? I feel like I understand where most fans are coming from on most of their opinions, but once in a while, though you respect it, an opinion just doesn't compute! Though, now I feel like I'm making too much of it in this case, because I can see how it could drag a little. As Kapitan said recently, that could have been fixed by increasing the tempo a little.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 3, 2021 16:25:28 GMT
Honestly it didn't even occur to me that it might be the lyric that SJS objects to. I knew about the tempo-dragging part, of course, as he's made that clear before, and I agree with that. But the standard boy-meets-girl topic? Never occurred to me.
I don't find anything special about the lyrics, but I also don't care about them in a bad way. They aren't embarrassing, they're just there. And if you don't have something really cool in your lyric--and I'd say 90% of lyrics fit into that category--then "not embarrassing" is the best thing you can be.
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Post by kds on Jan 3, 2021 17:32:03 GMT
I'm also not a huge fan of GIOHM's title track. It's pretty good, one of the better songs on the album, but I don't think its one of his best solo songs.
In terms of songwriting, I'd put TLOS, the Thomas albums, and the three Xmas originals over the GIOHM. Probably BW '88 as well.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 3, 2021 17:49:49 GMT
I think NPP has some pretty weak songwriting. There are examples of good songwriting, too, but mostly I think that album is a good example of clever production and arrangements masking inferior songs in a lot of spots. "Saturday Night" and to a lesser extent "Sail Away" are the most notable exceptions, but things like "Guess You Had to Be There," "The Right Time," "Whatever Happened," "On The Island," "Tell Me Why" are almost shells of songs that sound good because of either performances, arrangements, production ideas, or combinations thereof. (I'm talking particularly about the music / song structures, not so much the lyrics.)
And really even "Sail Away" works as an example of what I'm talking about. It's really a I-IV-V kind of song with a few other chords tossed in (such as a vi), but nothing out of the ordinary. But you get relatively intricate and overlapping vocal parts, a key change, and it sounds like more than it really is.
One thing to make clear though: a simple song isn't necessarily a bad song. Plenty of great songs out there are I-IV-V. But especially for Brian Wilson, whose best work tends to be very inventive in terms of chord changes, it is hard to stand out with something so elementary.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 3, 2021 19:23:00 GMT
Listening to "Gettin' In Over My Head" for the first time in a while has been a joy. Still holds up as one of my favorite Brian solo songs. Lyrically, I like it a lot. A familiar theme for Brian, but it's one I thoroughly enjoy from him. I like the title phrase itself, and find it worthy of a song. I don't think the complete lyrics are too wordy - either in the sense that he's trying to squeeze too many syllables into the melody or in sheer amount of lines. Also, personally, I think the tempo is just right. I think it fits the mood of the song. Where I think I understand SJS' criticism of "the song doesn't go anywhere" is that there's limited motion, musically. The verses alternate between two (neighboring) chords AND there's a pedal in the bass. Then in the chorus it kinda moves step-wise in the other direction (F-F#dim-Gm7). Personally, this all works very well for me, and is very "Brian". There's that killer counter-melody right off the bat that is impossible to get out of your head, and the vocal arrangement builds throughout to great effect (and is performed well). And, there is a bridge to the song. It's relatively unassuming, I suppose. It's seamless, and also very reminiscent of Pet Sounds (in a good way!), IMO. This isn't just a cheap instrumentation touch meant to remind you of Pet Sounds, but the combination of the progression, melody, and arrangement. There's the bass (both the sound and part), but there's also the very nice overlapping vocal part on "I've got to see it for myself this time" - which then switches to two-part harmony over a descending line (F-E-Eb-D).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 7, 2021 18:18:57 GMT
When Brian Wilson...came back...to produce 15 Big Ones, no matter what the final incarnation of the album became, it is generally accepted that the album was a "warm up" for the real, serious work that Brian would eventually produce. While 15 Big Ones was ultimately a disappointment, I will always place more blame on the final tracklist and the subpar vocals by Dennis and Brian himself than Brian's actual production work. You could've had Phil Spector produce 15 Big Ones, but with those songs and those lead vocals, it was bound to fail.
The Beach Boys Love You would be different, right? Oh, yeah, it was different alright. Much better songs, that's for sure, but equally bad vocals from Dennis and Brian again, and, unfortunately the production was lacking this time. Carl had to be called in to add a few things and clean up some others. Who knows what the group was thinking after Love You. Publicly they praised it. Through the years I believe I read that some band members were critical of it, not so much the songs but Brian's rough production.
Love You didn't keep Brian from producing the group again, as he went right into the Adult Child sessions. While I think Adult Child is much weaker than many other fans do, it does have that indelible Brian Wilson stamp on it. It is quirky and fascinating. We all know where things went from there. Apparently it was rejected by the record company, some of the group (Mike?) weren't exactly enamored with it, and Brian Wilson never produced an album for The Beach Boys again. Please don't mention That's Why God Made The Radio.
But, the question is, why didn't Brian Wilson produce the follow-up album to Love You, M.I.U.? Skipping ahead, we know why Brian didn't produce L.A. (Light Album). As those sessions began, Brian was hospitalized, the sessions continued, and Brian was not well enough to contribute much when he was eventually released from the hospital. But, back to M.I.U. for a minute. From everything I could see from photos around that time, Brian was progressing physically. He was losing weight, cleaning up, and looking, well, much better. Brian was touring full-time with the group, playing bass, and his voice sounded like it was recovering, too. I guess the big question always revolved around his (illegal) drug intake, but wasn't he doing better in that area in 1977?
So, specifically, why didn't Brian continue to produce The Beach Boys and M.I.U. Who made that decision? Why was the decision made? You can take it one step further and ask why Al Jardine was "elected" to produce the album?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 7, 2021 18:26:33 GMT
I suspect to some degree--and probably a large degree--it was intraband politics and a kind of "fool me once / fool me twice" scenario. Whether and to what degree Brian was "back," I'd guess the more sober minds prevailed: you've had your chance (two and a half times, actually), with less-than-stellar results. Let's get out of the more risky environment, to Iowa. Let's let some more steady hands, although admittedly and obviously not Beach-Boy-genius hands, guide this ship and see what happens with this smooth, more retro (in many spots) work.
One also wonders whether Brian's audible improvement is actually due to someone other than Brian being in charge of the sessions. As catchy as "Stalin of the studio" may sound, there are examples of Brian deciding things were good enough, when, as the saying goes, "'good enough' isn't."
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Post by kds on Jan 7, 2021 18:30:48 GMT
I'm not certain who made the choice to take the reigns from Brian, but I imagine the thought process was that Brian was unfit to produce the follow-up to Love You, which was basically a failure. 15 Big Ones was a top 10 album. Love You didn't make it into the Top 50. It also produced no charting singles, and the reception by fans and critics was pretty mixed.
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