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Post by B.E. on Sept 29, 2020 20:15:01 GMT
I worked in radio briefly in my 20s, and we had a Music Director who always said that you need to listen to an album at least three times to really get a feel for it. In my experience, I've found that to be true. I wasn't exactly blown away the first time I listened to Dark Side of the Moon, Quadrophenia, or Pet Sounds after all. That's interesting, KDS. That's something I've thought a decent amount about and I ended up concluding that 2-3 listens of an album was necessary for me to absorb enough of it to really get an accurate reading of how I felt about it. I guess I'd describe it as - after one listen you've got a decent idea of how you'll feel about it over time, after 2-3 listens you've got a very good idea. I'm sure it's not the same for everyone, though. And, of course, if you listen dozens of times you can develop a greater love/appreciation for it or grow to dislike it. Since you guys are up to Hard Promises, I'll nominate "A Thing About You", "Letting You Go", and "Kings Road" as, not only growers, but songs that aren't far removed from the hits, quality-wise. They might not be quite as memorable as "The Waiting", but I don't think they sound out-of-place among them (whether at a concert or on a compilation). The first two, especially.
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Post by kds on Sept 29, 2020 20:20:04 GMT
I did like King's Road on first listen, so I can definitely see that.
I think in many cases, with me anyway, the first listen of an album lets me know if I'll be listening to it again. I have some albums in my collection that I listened to once, and just never went back to (some later era Macca releases come to mind), and some that I did give a second listen to later and regretted it (Van Halen 3 comes to mind).
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 29, 2020 20:24:38 GMT
Having just finished a four-hour web meeting for work*--how I avoided sneaking brandy or something in my cup throughout, I'll never know--I'll give Hard Promises a second listen now. My first was admittedly distracted.
The Petty project is fun, though. At worst pleasant, not a major investment. Good times. Plus, it'll be nice to be less ignorant about a major figure.
*EDIT - yes, I was posting some during that time. That's one benefit of the web meeting! But I couldn't listen to music.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 29, 2020 20:48:20 GMT
A few random things about Hard Promises: - "The Waiting" charted at #19 and "A Woman In Love (It's Not Me)" at #79. Not on the album, but "Stop Dragging My Heart Around" w/Stevie Nicks hit #3! - From wiki: During the recording of the album, John Lennon was scheduled to be in the same studio at the same time. Petty was looking forward to meeting him when he came in. The meeting never occurred, as Lennon was murdered before the date of his planned visit to the studio. Petty and the band paid tribute to the slain former Beatle by etching "WE LOVE YOU J.L." in the runout deadwax on early U.S. and Canadian pressings of Hard Promises. By the way, I'm not surprised by the lukewarm responses to Hard Promises. Bellbottoms had a similar reaction (as discussed in the 'I celebrate his entire catalog' thread). I think there is an understated quality to it. I don't know, it's hard to put my finger on it. (I still give it an 8! )
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 29, 2020 21:18:45 GMT
After my second listening--and the first one in which I actually paid attention--I have to say I like it more than before. It's right in the solid 7 territory, with probably half a dozen songs I like.
The Stevie Nicks duet isn't one of them; that's more in "fine" territory. But "A Thing About You" and "Letting You Go" do sound like they could have been minor hits to me. I like them quite a bit. "A Woman in Love" and "Kings Road" are both cool, too.
"You Can Still Change Your Mind" sounds almost Beatlesy (via a Floridian)... I like it, not quite as much as the aforementioned songs, but more than the Nicks ballad, for example.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 30, 2020 0:22:15 GMT
Catch up post. I'll save my complete album ranking 'til the end. Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers - 8/10 My favorite songs are "American Girl", "Breakdown", "Hometown Blues", "Anything That's Rock 'n' Roll", and "Fooled Again (I Don't Like It)". I largely agree with the Kapitan's impressions. This is straightforward, throwback rock 'n' roll. Few bells and whistles. Mostly recorded live. I also tend to agree that while the debut has the higher highs, that the second album is more consistent. I also noticed in relistening that Tom sung better on the second album. I'd never really noticed that before. I think he was being mindful of reaching a wider audience, perhaps. In reacting to Kapitan's and KDS' impressions, I can see how, being Queen fans, for instance, there's not the same level of creativity or virtuosity. Petty just dug '50s and '60s rock and roll, and did that. And, did it well, consistently. His albums aren't going to shock people, but if you love that music, and you like him and his band, then what's not to like? Then, of course, he's got some magic of his own as his hits attest to. Spurred by this thread, I've been reading my copy of Conversations with Tom Petty. I'll try to share a few bits and pieces throughout this journey. First, "American Girl" was recorded on July 4th, 1976. That seems appropriate! He also mentions musical inspirations regarding specific songs. Often, it's hard for us to hear the similarities, but it can be fun to know where the initial inspiration comes from. For the drums of "Breakdown" Tom envisioned a pattern similar to "All I've Got To Do" by the Beatles, but he surmises that he translated it wrong to his drummer, Stan. In regard to short songs/albums, Petty said that when Grace Jones covered "Breakdown", they thought it was too short and asked him to write another verse - which he did (I'll have to check that out). You're Gonna Get It - 8/10 My favorite songs are the title track, "Listen To Her Heart", "I Need To Know", and "No Second Thoughts". The Byrds influence is strong on "Listen To Her Heart". That was intentional. Also, apparently the Heartbreakers performed it, before it was released, at a show where Elvis Costello & the Attractions also performed. Costello liked the ending and used it in "Radio Radio". Upon request, Tom wrote "Magnolia" for Roger McQuinn, but he didn't want to use it. Tom said he eventually learned when writing for someone else to NOT try to imitate them. Tom said the inspiration for the rhythm of "I Need To Know" was Wilson Pickett's "Land Of A Thousand Dances". Personally, I really enjoyed "No Second Thoughts" most, this time around. It's a very simple progression, simple chords (I, IV, V, iv), but I love the atmosphere. It's acoustic-driven, with nice percussion. It just kind of "sways" along and has that catchy "yeah, yeah, ooh, yeah, yeah" bit. It occurred to me that this is the first in a series of songs in this vein throughout his career. I really like this side of Tom. Oh, and I completely agree with Kapitan's note of the guitar riff in "Hurt". Both for what it is and what it isn't. There's also some cool strumming/percussive stuff going on. Damn The Torpedoes - 9/10 My favorite songs are "Refugee", "Don't Do Me Like That", "Here Comes My Girl", and "Louisiana Rain". The only lesser song for me is "You Tell Me". Not much to add on this one at the moment. It deserves its reputation. Though, I agree, not a perfect record. Hard Promises - 8/10 Tom called "You Can Still Change Your Mind" Mike Campbell's tribute to Brian Wilson. Mike wrote the music and arranged it. Tom wrote the melody and lyrics. Apparently, Dylan told Tom that "Something Big" was one of his favorite songs of his. He also liked "The Last DJ" a lot. Really!? Anyway, Petty cited Buddy Holly as an inspiration for "Letting You Go". He also talked about not really being influenced by anything post-1974. About just being focused on what he was doing. And trying very hard to record music that had a timeless quality (so, no DX7s). That definitely goes a long way in explaining my attraction to his work.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 30, 2020 0:35:36 GMT
He also talked about not really being influenced by anything post-1974. About just being focused on what he was doing. And trying very hard to record music that had a timeless quality (so, no DX7s). That definitely goes a long way in explaining my attraction to his work. I appreciate that as well, and not in a "no musical styles should ever change" way so much as a "when you hop toward the latest gadgets and imitate the new styles, you're going to regret it" kind of way.
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Post by kds on Sept 30, 2020 12:10:38 GMT
Listening to Petty's catalog, I'm drawing some parallels to another quasi solo artist who rose up in the 70s - Springsteen.
Both guys have their own famous bands (E Street Band and The Heartbreakers). Each guy really hit paydirt on their third albums (Born to Run and Damn the Torpedoes). I'll admit I'm a bigger Bruce fan, but I really do think that Springsteen got put on a pedestal by the music press from jump, while it took Petty far longer to garner some respect, because of Bruce's NY/NJ ties as opposed to Tom's Florida roots.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 30, 2020 12:23:17 GMT
They also both embraced relatively straightforward, classic rock and roll with only brief, mid-80s moments of trend-hopping production styles. Their music was versatile and spanned numerous subgenres, but rarely or never in a gross, opportunistic way.
Another reason Bruce might have had earlier acclaim is that music critic Jon Landau was such an early supporter and became his manager and co-producer. Having a well-connected person to help with press certainly doesn't hurt.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 30, 2020 12:32:37 GMT
Long After Dark - 6.5
Another solid album. It's kind of funny that (aside from Damn the Torpedoes), maybe my two favorite albums are the ones that seem less well regarded: this one and You're Gonna Get It. Or at least that I don't see any particular, significant drop-off in them.
I didn't know any of these songs, but I liked a bunch of them. I thought Side One was a really strong side of tunes, though was amused to see that my two favorites weren't singles ("Deliver Me" and "Finding Out"), while the singles felt like solid album tracks.
Overall at this point I think the downside of being the sole (or at least primary by far) songwriter in a traditional rock band is becoming clear, though: it begins to feel a little samey. When "We Stand a Chance" kicked off Side Two, it's not that I didn't like it; it's that I felt I'd already heard it four or five times in the past day or two, and I'd never heard it in my life. The best songs have moments that stand out because of nice melodies or cool riffs, but those more average in that territory just blend into one long--five albums long by this point--album.
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Post by kds on Sept 30, 2020 12:34:40 GMT
They also both embraced relatively straightforward, classic rock and roll with only brief, mid-80s moments of trend-hopping production styles. Their music was versatile and spanned numerous subgenres, but rarely or never in a gross, opportunistic way.
Another reason Bruce might have had earlier acclaim is that music critic Jon Landau was such an early supporter and became his manager and co-producer. Having a well-connected person to help with press certainly doesn't hurt.
Yes, that first point is one I forgot to mention. Both Bruce and Petty were also embraced by their idols from the 60s as well, Bruce by the likes of Roy Orbison and John Fogerty and Tom by Dylan and George Harrison.
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Post by kds on Sept 30, 2020 13:04:22 GMT
My favorite songs are "American Girl", "Breakdown", "Hometown Blues", "Anything That's Rock 'n' Roll", and "Fooled Again (I Don't Like It)". I largely agree with the Kapitan's impressions. This is straightforward, throwback rock 'n' roll. Few bells and whistles. Mostly recorded live. I also tend to agree that while the debut has the higher highs, that the second album is more consistent. I also noticed in relistening that Tom sung better on the second album. I'd never really noticed that before. I think he was being mindful of reaching a wider audience, perhaps. In reacting to Kapitan's and KDS' impressions, I can see how, being Queen fans, for instance, there's not the same level of creativity or virtuosity. Petty just dug '50s and '60s rock and roll, and did that. And, did it well, consistently. His albums aren't going to shock people, but if you love that music, and you like him and his band, then what's not to like? Then, of course, he's got some magic of his own as his hits attest to. I'm a big fan of Queen and virtuosity, but I'm also a big fan of early 60s rock and roll. While I do kind of like the sound on the s/t album, I just don't think many of the songs are that great.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 30, 2020 13:41:11 GMT
Having just put on Southern Accents, I am immediately turned off by the drum sound. It's 1985 and is Petty's third album of the decade, but only now have we have hit "the '80s." Dave Stewart produced, and it shows. The drums jumped out first, but the sound overall is neutered.
The songs are going to have to be great to overcome the turnoff of the sound for me. One of the best things about the first five albums was the sound of a great, self-contained rock band. Those albums felt like you could be in a club and catch this band playing a variety of great tunes, and playing them well. This song sounds like an '80s song sung by Tom Petty as heard on MTV.
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Post by kds on Sept 30, 2020 14:08:40 GMT
Having just put on Southern Accents, I am immediately turned off by the drum sound. It's 1985 and is Petty's third album of the decade, but only now have we have hit "the '80s." Dave Stewart produced, and it shows. The drums jumped out first, but the sound overall is neutered.
The songs are going to have to be great to overcome the turnoff of the sound for me. One of the best things about the first five albums was the sound of a great, self-contained rock band. Those albums felt like you could be in a club and catch this band playing a variety of great tunes, and playing them well. This song sounds like an '80s song sung by Tom Petty as heard on MTV.
Yeah, I also just finished Southern Accents. I do think that Rebels is a killer opener. How Don't Come Around Here No More was the album's most enduring track over Rebels, I don't understand. Personally, I think that's a testament more to the power of a very memorable music video more than anything.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 30, 2020 14:12:34 GMT
I'm a big fan of Queen and virtuosity, but I'm also a big fan of early 60s rock and roll. While I do kind of like the sound on the s/t album, I just don't think many of the songs are that great. Yeah, I appreciate that. I wouldn't say that there are many great songs on it either. There's definitely one, probably two. I think my point was just that the more you like a genre and sound, and a particular band, and the more you listen to it - the more you're gonna like it. It's just a natural thing. Every song, album, or artist needn't be "great" or "genius", necessarily, it just needs to match one's tastes. I think Kapitan made the point that there's only going to be so many great songs per album (if any). I wouldn't say Queen's earlier or later albums, and even some of their most highly regarded work, have many great songs. It's just different. With its own unique strengths, and weaknesses.
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