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Post by Kapitan on Aug 20, 2020 19:22:23 GMT
Regarding the trumpet on "Your Imagination," I actually like it. It's over the top, but that whole song is kind of over the top.
The real problem I have with that one is the electric guitar, which B.E. pointed out earlier in the thread. To me, that's the sore thumb.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2020 19:32:36 GMT
I wish there was a way to quantify people's reactions to albums whether they're listening at home in northern England or in Eastern Europe or in Indiana or Maine or Argentina in comparison to what it sounds like to listen to The Beach Boys when you're driving on PCH. I ignored The Beach Boys until I moved to California in 94 and then I started listening while driving through the places mentioned in the songs and all of a sudden I realized what it was. And then of course no looking back. On the other hand I grew up exactly in the places that Springsteen talks about and have never liked the single song of his except the one he gave to Patti Smith. And yes also blinded by the light. But more specifically I grew up where the 4 seasons come from and always enjoyed the way they depicted the world from which we came. I said once a few years ago that if you listen to summer's gone while sitting in a chair on the beach and you hear the waves merging with the water and waves and rain and all the various sounds at the end of that song you will realize that the beach boy music is indistinguishable from the music of nature. Also of course when you're driving along the freeway and you have the urge to race someone in an XKE that happens to pass you, then the beach boys music merges with the sound of gears and the music of cars on the freeway.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Aug 21, 2020 2:34:33 GMT
It's weird how time can randomly change your opinion on something. I've been pretty meh on this album for the longest time, but something about reading the comments piqued my interest again and now listening to the whole album, I'm really enjoying it. I couldn't tell you a single lyric to South American, but I found myself really liking it for whatever reason. I still have my usual favorites on the album, namely the title track, Lay Down Burden, Where Has Love Been, and Keep An Eye On Summer. The latter of which I think has really outstanding vocals from Brian, especially in the verses. It sounds like what he might have sounded like on every track if not for the damage he did to his voice. Really nothing like it before or since in his solo career.
I give Imagination a solid 7.
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bellbottoms
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by bellbottoms on Aug 21, 2020 17:17:37 GMT
I've added my 7 to the pile. I've always liked Imagination. The first three tracks are really strong, and then it dips a little bit before coming back strong. While the production does edge a little closer to Adult Contemporary than I like, what I appreciate most about this album is just how nice it sounds. Brian sounds nice. The instrumentation is nice. The songs are nice. There is nothing sloppy here, and it's a good album to put on when I'm looking for a nice, easy, even keel vibe. Not perfect, but very good.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 21, 2020 17:32:55 GMT
I've added my 7 to the pile. I've always liked Imagination. The first three tracks are really strong, and then it dips a little bit before coming back strong. While the production does edge a little closer to Adult Contemporary than I like, what I appreciate most about this album is just how nice it sounds. Brian sounds nice. The instrumentation is nice. The songs are nice. There is nothing sloppy here, and it's a good album to put on when I'm looking for a nice, easy, even keel vibe. Not perfect, but very good. This. "Nice" isn't groundbreaking genius ... but it's nice! Nice isn't awful! This one is cheesy adult contemporary, but it is professional. It's nice.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 22, 2020 1:31:01 GMT
I agree. It DOES mark the beginning of his career as a touring musician, but he still released more studio work in the subsequent 17 years than he did in the previous 17 years by far. The focus, though, shifted to the Never Ending Tour. Sure, he does a new album, does a couple of those songs in the show for a couple months; then they are dropped to make room for more oldies. These albums don't have a long shelf life, do they? And how many of those studio albums are remakes of old songs? In some cases, remakes of remakes, lol. When did Brian, for example, last play any songs off of NPP or TLOS? Maybe it's just my perception of things that has changed. Back when his first solo album came out in 1988, i had the feeling - which was encouraged by the music media - that this was Brian reawakening his genius, and that there would be a lot more new music coming from him. Some of us even though the result would be renewed commercial success. And this played into the whole line of thought that "the Beach Boys were holding Brian back, impeding his creativity". "Those lazy Beach Boys, just coasting on their hits from the 60's". I remember tv special that hyped Imagination, like they thought it was going to be a top 10 album - ha! not even close. But it did seem like Brian's full focus was on creating new music; since the touring started, the focus has been on playing those greatest hits, 'I wonder what deep tracks Brian will play this time out?" I was watching the Stars and Stripes video last night, and i was surprised at how Brian looked back then; at the time, my reaction was "oh, boy, he's put on a lot of weight now that Landy is gone".
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 22, 2020 12:50:56 GMT
I know that's a big deal for you--the lack of new songs in the live set--but honestly I don't think it's relevant here. In one way I'm not even arguing that point, to be clear: you are right that it's a little disappointing.
Just for the fun of debate, I'll argue from a few different angles against it (with the "it" being what I think you initially had argued: Brian was less a studio artist and more a nostalgia touring act).
1) Repeating my first argument, starting with Imagination, he released Imagination, GIOMH, BWPS, Xmas, TLOS, Gershwin, Disney, and NPP in a 17 year period. In the previous 17 years, he had released 85, 88, a few songs on Still Cruisin, sang on a VDP album, and recorded unreleased demos with Paley. Seems like more studio work in the latter period than newer.
2) While I don't accept the argument about whether he's a live or studio musician based on new songs in the live set, how many of the songs from that previous 17 years made the live set regularly? "Love and Mercy," for sure. After that, it's mostly stuff that came and went ... whereas at least on the newer, there were full-album performances of two studio albums plus Smile, as well as Desert Drive, City Blues, GIOMH, How Could We Still Be Dancing, Your Imagination, Lay Down Burden, MAD, Sail Away appearing at least as much as other songs from that earlier period. Both of these periods' live work, just like the Beach Boys late 70s live work, would disproportionately feature the Beach Boys hits ... because they were hits.
3) In a way, of course the latter period saw more touring emphasis, because he almost never toured in the couple decades before it. So almost ANY touring would be more touring. But again, it was more touring without less studio work.
(Touring more in that era also just makes business sense because musicians don't make much money selling records anymore, whereas touring can be lucrative.)
I just don't think your argument holds up consistently. It seems to me you just don't like Brian as an oldies touring act, but that isn't the same as saying he became less a studio performer and more a live performer. I don't think that's true over that full period of time. (That said, since 2015, it is literally a fact. No studio albums, lots of touring.)
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Post by kds on Aug 22, 2020 14:22:12 GMT
I think its also worth mentioning here that Brian did play TLOS and BWRG in their entirety when he toured on those albums. That's more than most legacy acts do. McCartney, the Stones, Roger Waters, Purple, etc would typically do a couple new songs in the set. Then, once done with that touring cycle, those songs would pretty much never be played again.
Is it disappointing? Yeah, a little. But, its just the nature of the beast.
Plus, we're BB/BW diehards here, and most of us are rating Imagination with a 7. I imagine casual fans would rate it far lower, which makes it less likely those songs would ever be played again.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 22, 2020 14:28:41 GMT
Plus, we're BB/BW diehards here, and most of us are rating Imagination with a 7. I imagine casual fans would rate it far lower, which makes it less likely those songs would ever be played again. That's an interesting thought. Generally-speaking, I'm sure you're right. But, I think Imagination really did succeed in being slick and accessible. So for older, AC-oriented listeners, I think they'd like it. People who wouldn't be able to pick Brian Wilson out of a lineup, might like it. It's a far cry from Sweet Insanity or the Paley sessions or GIOMH. Edit: To clarify, I'm just talking about the reception of the album itself, not performing the songs live.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 22, 2020 15:14:15 GMT
Plus, we're BB/BW diehards here, and most of us are rating Imagination with a 7. I imagine casual fans would rate it far lower, which makes it less likely those songs would ever be played again. That's an interesting thought. Generally-speaking, I'm sure you're right. But, I think Imagination really did succeed in being slick and accessible. So for older, AC-oriented listeners, I think they'd like it. People who wouldn't be able to pick Brian Wilson out of a lineup, might like it. It's a far cry from Sweet Insanity or the Paley sessions or GIOMH. Edit: To clarify, I'm just talking about the reception of the album itself, not performing the songs live. I agree with you. And I actually think Disney and NPP are in that territory as well: they comprise, or at least contain, AC-oriented versions of a BW sound. So is Gershwin, to some extent, though the material itself leans more toward jazz standards than pop music, which probably cuts that appeal somewhat.
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Post by kds on Aug 22, 2020 16:49:25 GMT
I think the songs of Imagination are pleasant enough to not send casual fans rushing to the concessions or restroom, same with the other JT albums (Mike's band has also left TWGMTR in the dust). But, probably not enough to move the needle and get included in a setlist.
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Post by kds on Aug 22, 2020 16:55:26 GMT
I also think having Al Jardine in the band might have a lot to do with the lack of BW solo songs. With Al, and Blondie for 3 songs, I think there's more of an expection for a Beach Boys setlist instead of a Brian Wilson concert.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 22, 2020 17:08:29 GMT
I also think having Al Jardine in the band might have a lot to do with the lack of BW solo songs. With Al, and Blondie for 3 songs, I think there's more of an expection for a Beach Boys setlist instead of a Brian Wilson concert. That's a really good point. I would be very interested to see an analysis of the percentage of BW solo songs v BBs songs in a BW setlist before the BAD and current lineup tours as compared to after. (So basically post-2012 or so versus before.)
Obviously the specifically Pet Sounds tours that went on for years also just ate up a lot of the space available. That's about nine songs that would be unlikely to be performed regularly in a non-Pet Sounds show.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 22, 2020 18:44:00 GMT
I always thought there was a lack of Brian Wilson solo songs performed because of, in importance, 1) Brian doesn't care for them, 2) Brian would have to learn them (or something new(er)) as opposed to being on autopilot with the oldies, and 3) $$$$$$$$ - they want to keep selling tickets and most of the people at a BW solo concert are there for The Beach Boys' tunes.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 22, 2020 18:52:40 GMT
2) Brian would have to learn them (or something new(er)) as opposed to being on autopilot with the oldies I might have agreed with that in the past, but I only think that's really a problem when it comes to verbose songs. And, really, that's more of a "Brian doesn't care for them" problem. We've seen videos or heard clips of Brian playing, singing, or talking about some pretty random songs that you wouldn't think he'd remember (either because they're decades old, or he wasn't particularly involved in, or they're unreleased/unfinished scraps). So, musically, I think all that's still up there. It's part of his gift, I think.
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