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Post by kds on Apr 7, 2020 19:54:02 GMT
I'm going to review the album on its fifth year anniversary, but first I'd like to get this out of the way.
I thought the polarizing had more to do with the criticism of Brian Wilson than it did the album. Let's be open and honest here. You're mainly referring to the Smiley Smile forum. By that time, the two moderators and a few of the posters basically dug in their heels and were not going to allow ANY criticism of Brian Wilson, no matter how objective and well-stated it was. It was - nope, don't wanna hear it, how dare you, not here, go away. Clearly agendas were in place and the lines were drawn. It just came to a head with No Pressure and some of the other bullying bullshit that was going on behind the scenes. But, again, I don't think the negative criticism of the album "drove a wedge" into the Beach Boys' online universe. That wedge was well-driven already, at least on that particular forum.
I think that's true: the album was more what was happening at the time the various spats were ongoing. (And they weren't the first or last spats, either.) PSF already existed by then, didn't it? Or did it grow out of that fight? Anyway, there had been splinter boards and battles going back as long as I've been around online with the BBs, which gets us to the early '00s.
Some people just aren't able to maintain cordial relationships when they disagree about things. It's unfortunate. A lot of the people who have been involved in the various fights over the years, I like or respect (or both). But for some reason, certain triggers are pulled and all decent behavior is out the window.
The campaign season heating up around then didn't help anything, either. Things got really weird then.
I think PSF was established in 2016 after the banning of several regulars at SSMB formed it. I think it was a joke MST3K review of NPP that lead to the exodus / exile.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 7, 2020 19:56:09 GMT
Sorry, yes, that's right. It was the funny dialogue/listening. (I loved that!) I guess we've discussed that here before, so I won't retread that ground.
But anyway, there had been other splinters before, was my point.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Apr 7, 2020 19:57:03 GMT
I'm going to review the album on its fifth year anniversary, but first I'd like to get this out of the way. I thought the polarizing had more to do with the criticism of Brian Wilson than it did the album. Let's be open and honest here. You're mainly referring to the Smiley Smile forum. By that time, the two moderators and a few of the posters basically dug in their heels and were not going to allow ANY criticism of Brian Wilson, no matter how objective and well-stated it was. It was - nope, don't wanna hear it, how dare you, not here, go away. Clearly agendas were in place and the lines were drawn. It just came to a head with No Pressure and some of the other bullying bullshit that was going on behind the scenes. But, again, I don't think the negative criticism of the album "drove a wedge" into the Beach Boys' online universe. That wedge was well-driven already.
From what I recall, the criticisms were about the album, but they were taken as an insult to Brian himself, which doesn't really make sense. As if not saying that NPP was Pet Sounds II was some kind of personal attack at the man. And you're right, there was already quite a division in the fanbase, but NPP really brought it to a head. But, as I was often mocked for on SSMB, discussing the music is far more fun to me. The Last Song is now (thankfully) fading out as the album finished. I'd say five years later, I probably don't like the album nearly as much as I did in 2015 (I can actually say that for every BW album to be honest), but I still find it mostly enjoyable. On the whole, my opinions of the individual songs hasn't changed much. Although, I find myself liking On the Island more now. "Brian" going on social media to say how bummed he was about the negativity didn't help things, either. Not sure I've ever seen something like that from a major artist before or since.
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Post by kds on Apr 7, 2020 20:00:55 GMT
From what I recall, the criticisms were about the album, but they were taken as an insult to Brian himself, which doesn't really make sense. As if not saying that NPP was Pet Sounds II was some kind of personal attack at the man. And you're right, there was already quite a division in the fanbase, but NPP really brought it to a head. But, as I was often mocked for on SSMB, discussing the music is far more fun to me. The Last Song is now (thankfully) fading out as the album finished. I'd say five years later, I probably don't like the album nearly as much as I did in 2015 (I can actually say that for every BW album to be honest), but I still find it mostly enjoyable. On the whole, my opinions of the individual songs hasn't changed much. Although, I find myself liking On the Island more now. "Brian" going on social media to say how bummed he was about the negativity didn't help things, either. Not sure I've ever seen something like that from a major artist before or since. I'd forgotten about that. Didn't Brian also take to social media about fans complaining about something Mike did too (maybe DIA '17)? Maybe I'm misremembering.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Apr 7, 2020 20:03:30 GMT
"Brian" going on social media to say how bummed he was about the negativity didn't help things, either. Not sure I've ever seen something like that from a major artist before or since. I'd forgotten about that. Didn't Brian also take to social media about fans complaining about something Mike did too (maybe DIA '17)? Maybe I'm misremembering. I vaguely remember something, but couldn't tell you what it was about.
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Post by kds on Apr 7, 2020 20:11:19 GMT
Neither can I.
Back to the album, David Marks is credited on The Right Time, but the guitar licks on the song as so generic, I feel like anyone could've played them. Was his presence on the album just to make sure there were as many former BBs on the album as possible?
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 7, 2020 20:15:29 GMT
When I think about this album, more than anything what I think about are the vocals. They're really complicated--and I don't mean the parts as written are complicated (e.g., challenging vocal lines, complex harmonies). I mean whatever editing/mixing it took to get to the final product.
Listen sometime through headphones carefully. It's amazing how often you'll hear a word suddenly supplemented by another voice, be it Brian doubling (tripling, quadrupling, etc.) himself or Al or Matt or someone else punching it up with just a single word or phrase. I'll bet more vocal tracks were recorded (and at least partly used) for this album than any Beach Boys related album ever.
At the time I thought--and I still think--the most likely reason was Brian's deteriorating voice. Everything I've heard from him live since reinforces that speculation. I think he didn't just need to quadruple everything the way he was doing on Imagination, at least, if not before. He needed someone else's better diction to speak this word, to bolster that note, to handle that sharp left turn. But then on top of any vocal weakness, there were also just some really good singers and cool harmony parts involved, and so of course inevitably a song like "Sail Away" has fifty bazillion voices.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 7, 2020 20:17:21 GMT
Back to the album, David Marks is credited on The Right Time, but the guitar licks on the song as so generic, I feel like anyone could've played them. Was his presence on the album just to make sure there were as many former BBs on the album as possible? I've always agreed with your take on that.
David had recently been touring with Brian in the "BAD" tour, so he may have been just on board a band member in the same way Blondie has been since. Keeping in mind that they were recording over a long stretch of time between the Beck project, Don Was's involvement, Joe Thomas's involvement, etc. I don't know if it was just to show the Love band that this was the real Beach Boys. But it did have that feel.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 7, 2020 20:20:22 GMT
From what I recall, the criticisms were about the album, but they were taken as an insult to Brian himself, which doesn't really make sense. As if not saying that NPP was Pet Sounds II was some kind of personal attack at the man. And you're right, there was already quite a division in the fanbase, but NPP really brought it to a head. But, as I was often mocked for on SSMB, discussing the music is far more fun to me. The Last Song is now (thankfully) fading out as the album finished. I'd say five years later, I probably don't like the album nearly as much as I did in 2015 (I can actually say that for every BW album to be honest), but I still find it mostly enjoyable. On the whole, my opinions of the individual songs hasn't changed much. Although, I find myself liking On the Island more now. "Brian" going on social media to say how bummed he was about the negativity didn't help things, either. Not sure I've ever seen something like that from a major artist before or since. I'm glad to see you put "Brian" in italics, because that was another polarizing issue - the wifeandmanagers' influence.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Apr 7, 2020 20:22:05 GMT
Neither can I. Back to the album, David Marks is credited on The Right Time, but the guitar licks on the song as so generic, I feel like anyone could've played them. Was his presence on the album just to make sure there were as many former BBs on the album as possible? Absolutely. After the end of C50, the battle lines were drawn. Still are actually.
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Post by kds on Apr 7, 2020 20:22:06 GMT
I was noticing that too when I just listened. I agree about Brian's voice too, and I think that's why so many leads are passed off to other singers, which is also something he's done more of in concert over the last five years.
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Post by kds on Apr 7, 2020 20:24:11 GMT
Back to the album, David Marks is credited on The Right Time, but the guitar licks on the song as so generic, I feel like anyone could've played them. Was his presence on the album just to make sure there were as many former BBs on the album as possible? I've always agreed with your take on that.
David had recently been touring with Brian in the "BAD" tour, so he may have been just on board a band member in the same way Blondie has been since. Keeping in mind that they were recording over a long stretch of time between the Beck project, Don Was's involvement, Joe Thomas's involvement, etc. I don't know if it was just to show the Love band that this was the real Beach Boys. But it did have that feel.
Oddly enough, Marks did some shows with Mike and Bruce in 2015. It seemed for a little while at least, that he went back and forth between the camps. At least in concert, Marks is actually allowed to play, unlike the other Brian / Joe albums he appears on.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 7, 2020 20:30:17 GMT
I was going to say that about Marks and "battle lines": I think he's still more fluid than anyone else. In fact, he's probably the only one who is at this point. (Not sure where sidemen like Foskett and Ike fit in that regard. But I can't imagine the BW camp begrudges them?)
Another album point: the sequence of "Tell Me Why," "Sail Away," "One Kind of Love," and "Saturday Night" is wonderful. Really strong four-song stretch that's rarely bested on a BW solo album.
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Post by Kapitan on Apr 7, 2020 20:33:09 GMT
At least in concert, Marks is actually allowed to play, unlike the other Brian / Joe albums he appears on. On that note, how in the world was Marks not brought in to play guitar on "Run James Run"?
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Apr 7, 2020 22:22:14 GMT
My opinion of the album has grown slightly more positive from when it was released. I skipped my last class to go with one of my friends to buy it. This Beautiful Day was a breath of fresh air and felt like it picked up right where Summer's Gone left off. Then Runaway Dancer threw all that away, though I'm probably one of it's biggest fans. Whatever Happened gets the album back into groove and feels like a companion track to From There to Back Again. Overall, it was and still is a very pleasant listening experience. My only two complaints are Brian's vocals on Our Special Love and the la la la's on The Last Song. It has grown to become my favorite solo album and probably my top 10 for BB albums.
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