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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 29, 2019 19:50:34 GMT
I don't disagree with anything you wrote, and keep in mind my opinion was more of an overall view; certainly "writing and performing beautiful music" isn't the ONLY part of the equation.
However, look at that concept for a moment. Try, if you will, to reverse the roles. What if Mike Love wrote "Surfer Girl", "Don't Worry Baby", Pet Sounds, and sang like an angel. And, conversely, imagine if Brian just wrote some surf & turf lyrics, sang in a nasal tone, and didn't play an instrument. I guarantee - GUARANTEE - the story, including the adulation, would be much different.
Same to be said for Dennis and Carl. Dennis gave us those Sunflower songs, "Cuddle Up", Pacific Ocean Blue, and hard-earned sweat from playing the drums. Mike gave us "Student Demonstration Time", "Everyone's In Love With You", Looking Back With Love, and sometimes annoying stage banter. Now, reverse those roles, those credentials, those contributions. Fans would love Mike and wouldn't be nearly sympathetic to Dennis' problems. "Hey, what did Dennis do" people would ask.
Same with Carl. The voice of an angel. Sang "God Only Knows", "Good Vibrations", and "I Can Hear Music". BEAUTIFUL vocals. Now, I'm not being ignorant. Many, many fans loved Mike's car medley and surf medley performances. But who "touched" the fans more?
If people feel that you gave them your heart and soul, they'll love you and defend you forever. If they feel like...anybody could've done that...they'll only like you. And if you make the unfortunate error of disrespecting the former (Brian, Dennis, & Carl), they will hate you. And Mike knows this. He knows that he didn't CREATE the music that fans love. He performed it, yes, but that doesn't always get you into the fans' hearts. That's why Mike is so defensive and blows his own horn about songs like "Kokomo" - when he can. He knows that he's liked but he wants to be loved.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 29, 2019 19:52:44 GMT
That's fair. And frankly at least partly accounts for my 'archetypes' idea. The reason Brian could be his character is that he did write that music (but then also had the voice to execute it).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 29, 2019 20:12:18 GMT
There's over a dozen reasons to explain the dichotomy of feelings when it comes to Mike Love and The Wilsons - and you and I have probably participated in dozens of threads in the past discussing it. But I'll list just a few reasons:
- Dennis and Carl died young, Brian is a human tragedy, and Mike traveled the world a healthy and happy man soaking in the applause. Well, that's not fair is it? It wasn't supposed to be that way.
- As I mentioned above, Brian, Dennis, and Carl were TALENTED musicians and songwriters. And Mike?
- Brian, Dennis, and Carl were perceived as nice guys with big hearts - and Mike wasn't. I do doubt the truth of those stereotypes BTW, especially when it comes to Brian and Dennis. I also think this aspect is one of biggest influences on fans' adulation. This encompasses a lot of areas - the wardrobe/hats/jewelry issue, the preoccupation with $$$$$$, being a big mouth as opposed to modest, being outgoing on stage as opposed to being reserved, wanting to accumulate possessions as opposed to...not, preferring sophisticated interests as opposed to watching Wheel Of Fortune, and on and on.
- Brian, Dennis, and Carl were victims of parental abuse. I don't know if Mike was or not, but that brings about a lot of sympathy - and excuse making - in fans.
You could devote several pages just discussing the differences between Mike and The Wilsons and why fans prefer one over the other.
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Post by kds on Sept 30, 2019 0:35:20 GMT
I'm not sure it's the "beautiful music" thing, or at least not only that. I think there are different reasons each Wilson gets a (relative) pass.
It begins with Brian Wilson, who gets a pass because he fits the "sensitive/crazy genius" trope, meaning people actually prefer when he does insane things. Fans delight in stories of his demonstrated mental illness.
With Dennis, it's his own sexual attractiveness. It's less offensive if he seduces someone because people imagine themselves being seduced by Dennis Wilson (or dream about being him, the seducer). His recklessness plays into a bad boy image that people like. And then, yes, he shows the softer side in his ballads. He is, like Brian is, almost the perfect example of a stereotype.
Carl is a different figure, but because of his role as a peacemaker, as a relative innocent, and his supporting role of his troubled brothers, he seems to get a pass too. That might be mostly just that he's a Wilson.
Mike, conversely, has always been a cocky character, but without the Dennis-level looks or rebellious attitude. Instead he seems more like the high school jock who couldn't put aside his glory days of making fun of nerds. Bruce was a rich kid who hitched his wagon to the right people.
(The others don't really figure into this legacy drama stuff much, frankly. Al, bless him, just didn't stand out far enough either way. David, Blondie, and Ricky just weren't with the band in official capacities long enough to leave a mark.)
That's a pretty accurate description. |
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 30, 2019 19:49:51 GMT
You know, we could be talking about Elvis Presley here. Never met a pill he didn't want to take; bedded every attractive young woman he ever met. Cursed like a sailor and had a terrible, terrible temper. But he also sang great in many different styles - gospel, blues, country, rock, crooner pop; was an electrifying showman who had an immediate connection with his audience; and was a very, very generous man who never missed an opportunity to help a family member, friend, or sometimes even a total stranger. I often wish there were more people like him in the world - without the pills and the temper.
So yeah, being a great person in some areas of life, being a great artist or performer will help people overlook your lesser qualities.
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Post by kds on Sept 30, 2019 19:57:33 GMT
You know, we could be talking about Elvis Presley here. Never met a pill he didn't want to take; bedded every attractive young woman he ever met. Cursed like a sailor and had a terrible, terrible temper. But he also sang great in many different styles - gospel, blues, country, rock, crooner pop; was an electrifying showman who had an immediate connection with his audience; and was a very, very generous man who never missed an opportunity to help a family member, friend, or sometimes even a total stranger. I often wish there were more people like him in the world - without the pills and the temper. So yeah, being a great person in some areas of life, being a great artist or performer will help people overlook your lesser qualities. That's why I always say it's important to separate the art from the artist. But in BB world, you don't see that much.
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barto
Denny's Drums
Posts: 4 
Likes: 1
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Post by barto on Oct 1, 2019 17:33:13 GMT
My dream collab for current day-
Brian
Paul McCartney
Kanye West
Daft PunK
Sufjan Stevens
All of my favorite producers in one room (well, would have preferred George Martin in there as well)
Someone else should be added to write lyrics. Perhaps Jeff Mangum.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 1, 2019 18:35:21 GMT
Someone else should be added to write lyrics. Perhaps Jeff Mangum. Now I’m dizzy imagining 1977 Brian belting out “I love you Jesus Christ” and modern voice Brian singing “semen stains the mountaintops.” |
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