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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 13:33:40 GMT
How about good old reliable Queen. Same lineup for the full life of the band (and yes, I consider the 21st century Queen + band a different entity). Freddie Mercury Brian May Roger Taylor John Deacon I think you’re asking special pleading here, to separate the non-canonical lineups into different entities. I mean, on some level it is true, they are branded as the band itself plus someone else. I’ll grant that. But the original, legal brand is still there in the newer versions, even if as a fragment (ahem, the large majority) of the whole. I’ll guess not many people thought “oh, great, a new album by this new band that has Queen members in it!” for the Paul Rodgers version. And virtually nobody says “great, a show with Adam Lambert alongside part of Queen!” It’s Queen’s logo, Queen’s songs, Queen’s name (with an arithmetic symbol). That's all true, but the marque, the ticket, and the lone album still say "Queen + ......." I honestly think that had Brian and Roger gone out without Freddie as "Queen," the outcry would've made the whining about the Wilson-less Beach Boys look like child's play.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 13:36:05 GMT
Totally agree with KDS: in fact I’ll say that I think Syd Barrett is among the most overhyped rock stars in history, and I think had he stuck around Pink Floyd, the band wouldn’t have achieved what it did AND his reputation would have never become what it did. Nothing is quite so good for an artist’s reputation as tragedy. So fuckin’ romantic, generations of teens and young adults fall for it. Yeah, I agree 100%. Syd was a very talented guitarist (when he wanted to be), I'll give him that. But, the Barrett led Floyd and their songs about Gnomes and Scarecrows would've been a footnote in the history of psychadelia rather than one of the biggest bands of all time. That's painfully evident when you listen to Barrett's attempts at solo albums.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 4, 2019 13:40:23 GMT
Regarding Syd...It's hard to predict how Pink Floyd would've evolved with a healthy Syd, or how Syd himself would've progressed. Regardless of how one feels about Syd's music, or Pink Floyd's future music without him, there's no denying the INFLUENCE Syd had on all of the members - personally and musically. I'll stop short of saying he "haunted them", but they continued to talk about him, write about him, and...honor him...for the rest of their careers. Only in recent years did I read/hear Roger Waters say that he had to come to some kind of peace and reconciliation with the shadow of Syd, that he had to finally put it rest for his own well-being.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 4, 2019 13:45:35 GMT
Totally agree with KDS: in fact I’ll say that I think Syd Barrett is among the most overhyped rock stars in history, and I think had he stuck around Pink Floyd, the band wouldn’t have achieved what it did AND his reputation would have never become what it did. Nothing is quite so good for an artist’s reputation as tragedy. So fuckin’ romantic, generations of teens and young adults fall for it. Yeah, I agree 100%. Syd was a very talented guitarist (when he wanted to be), I'll give him that. But, the Barrett led Floyd and their songs about Gnomes and Scarecrows would've been a footnote in the history of psychadelia rather than one of the biggest bands of all time. That's painfully evident when you listen to Barrett's attempts at solo albums. I don't think you can make the connection of The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn's references to scarecrows, gnomes, cats, bikes, etc. - and his other early work like "Arnold Layne" and "See Emily Play" - with Syd's solo albums. Even though only a short time had gone by, Syd's mental illness and/or brain damage (due to drugs) or whatever had firmly taken hold, and Syd was no longer the same artist who composed those early Pink Floyd songs.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 13:46:26 GMT
Regarding Syd...It's hard to predict how Pink Floyd would've evolved with a healthy Syd, or how Syd himself would've progressed. Regardless of how one feels about Syd's music, or Pink Floyd's future music without him, there's no denying the INFLUENCE Syd had on all of the members - personally and musically. I'll stop short of saying he "haunted them", but they continued to talk about him, write about him, and...honor him...for the rest of their careers. Only in recent years did I read/hear Roger Waters say that he had to come to some kind of peace and reconciliation with the shadow of Syd, that he had to finally put it rest for his own well-being. That, I'll give you. And I'll acknowledge that Syd was an important figure in their history, and the band continued to reference him throughout their entire career. But, I also think that his influence on the band far outweighs his body of work.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 13:50:46 GMT
Yeah, I agree 100%. Syd was a very talented guitarist (when he wanted to be), I'll give him that. But, the Barrett led Floyd and their songs about Gnomes and Scarecrows would've been a footnote in the history of psychadelia rather than one of the biggest bands of all time. That's painfully evident when you listen to Barrett's attempts at solo albums. I don't think you can make the connection of The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn's references to scarecrows, gnomes, cats, bikes, etc. - and his other early work like "Arnold Layne" and "See Emily Play" - with Syd's solo albums. Even though only a short time had gone by, Syd's mental illness and/or brain damage (due to drugs) or whatever had firmly taken hold, and Syd was no longer the same artist who composed those early Pink Floyd songs. That's fair. But, I think even See Emily Play, Arnold Layne, and some of Syd's better contributions still don't stack up well against what Floyd did later.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 4, 2019 13:58:19 GMT
I don't think you can make the connection of The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn's references to scarecrows, gnomes, cats, bikes, etc. - and his other early work like "Arnold Layne" and "See Emily Play" - with Syd's solo albums. Even though only a short time had gone by, Syd's mental illness and/or brain damage (due to drugs) or whatever had firmly taken hold, and Syd was no longer the same artist who composed those early Pink Floyd songs. That's fair. But, I think even See Emily Play, Arnold Layne, and some of Syd's better contributions still don't stack up well against what Floyd did later. Well, it's a fascinating subject, and a fun one to speculate about. I do give Waters, Gilmour, Wright, and Mason a lot of credit. Losing a leader and such a charismatic personality like Syd would've caused many groups to become frustrated, despondent, and throw in the towel. But as you state, Pink Floyd went on to do great(er) things.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 14:06:21 GMT
That's fair. But, I think even See Emily Play, Arnold Layne, and some of Syd's better contributions still don't stack up well against what Floyd did later. Well, it's a fascinating subject, and a fun one to speculate about. I do give Waters, Gilmour, Wright, and Mason a lot of credit. Losing a leader and such a charismatic personality like Syd would've caused many groups to become frustrated, despondent, and throw in the towel. But as you state, Pink Floyd went on to do great(er) things. I think the fact that it happened so early in their career helped them to carry on. Plus, Roger was already emerging as a songwriter. So, with Roger's ability to write coupled with a new skillful guitarist probably gave the guys a lot of hope that they could make it, even if they spend a few years really trying to find their sound.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 14:31:26 GMT
Interesting one here. The classic line up of Rainbow (Ritchie Blackmore, Ronnie Jame Dio, Jimmy Bain, Cozy Powell, and Tony Carey) only did one studio album - Rising. In fact, Rainbow never had the same lineup on any of their eight studio releases.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 4, 2019 14:50:00 GMT
A few of my preferred lineups...
The Beach Boys - Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Mike Love, Alan Jardine
Fleetwood Mac - Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks
Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers - Tom Petty, Mike Campbell, Benmont Tench, Howie Epstein, Stan Lynch
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 4, 2019 15:20:21 GMT
One thing that I think maybe flies under the radar for a lot of music fans—maybe classic rock fans or just casual fans—is how many of the popular bands of the 80s have undergone or are still undergoing the same curse that the older bands did once their primes passed: The jig is up, record sales drop, revenues drop, and so somebody is going back to college, taking that office job, or otherwise abandoning ship. Among the others might be a few guys who wouldn’t want to do anything else, maybe for whom the idea of “I’d do this even if it didn’t pay at all” is actually true, or maybe they’re incapable of doing anything else. Those guys keep going with a replacement or two, still churning out new music, trying to keep it afloat. Times change more, a few more members choose another line of work. The remaining version of the band finally can’t even pretend to be a creative outfit, a contemporary outfit, and is now officially just on the oldies circuit. Clubs, fairs, theme festivals with other nostalgic hitmakers of their era. Point being, while most people realize that those 1960s bands have been out there for years with only one or two guys old enough to have been there the first time, a large number of 1980s bands have been in the same boat. Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Poison, Motley Crue, Skid Row, LA Guns, Megadeth, Metallica, and Whitesnake—hell, even Guns and Roses!—have all been out there touring, more or less, the whole time—often with new members being integrated into their bands for one reason or another. For whatever reason, I don’t think many people outside of hardcore fans recognize the individuals in these bands (aside from probably lead singers or lead guitarists), and so don’t even know there were different lineups, much less which they liked most. Granted, some of these members were only long-after-the-fact sideman; but some were brought in before, during, or shortly after peak periods and contributed to a significant degree. One example is Whitesnake, which has always been in truth a David Coverdale (singer) owned and managed product with different lineups. Their membership changed 100% (not counting Coverdale) not just during their hit-making period, but I mean LITERALLY during it. The entire band was replaced at the time of the self-titled megahit album. In fact, the band was replaced between the recording of the album and the filming of the first video: out went Aynsley Dunbar, Neil Murray, and John Sykes; and in came Adrian Vandenberg, Vivian Campbell, Rudy Sarzo, and Tommy Aldridge. Their next album, another substantial hit called Slip of the Tongue, saw another major change with the injection of Steve Vai and firing of Vivian Campbell (who, after playing in the Riverdogs, joined Def Leppard). It’s actually funny that the group the most people SAW (from the videos off that self-titled album) never recorded an album! But I digress… Point was, there are a lot of (important) lineup changes to bands in these other eras, as well: almost every time a band fades but carries on, but even during their primes.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 4, 2019 15:21:19 GMT
Interesting one here. The classic line up of Rainbow (Ritchie Blackmore, Ronnie Jame Dio, Jimmy Bain, Cozy Powell, and Tony Carey) only did one studio album - Rising. In fact, Rainbow never had the same lineup on any of their eight studio releases. This fits perfectly beside my mention of Whitesnake in my above post!
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Post by B.E. on Sept 4, 2019 15:26:37 GMT
What about Brian Wilson's band? If I were to create a favorite lineup, I'm not sure who I'd pick as drummer: Jim Hines, Todd Sucherman, or Mike D'Amico. Heck, I'm not even sure who I'd pick for the falsetto/rhythm guitar role: Jeff Foskett, Brian Eichenberger, or Matt Jardine. Otherwise, I'm partial to the original lineup. So, in addition to Darian Sahanaja, Nicky Wonder, Probyn Gregory, Paul Von Mertens, and Bob Lizik, I'd also include Scott Bennett and Taylor Mills. Nelson Bragg can come along too. Scott is missed as a co-writer and Taylor is missed as a vocalist. As far as special guests go, I love when Al is involved. I think he enhances the experience both live and in the studio. He seems to be a perfect fit with Brian. David and Blondie, on the other hand, aren't.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 15:34:14 GMT
Interesting one here. The classic line up of Rainbow (Ritchie Blackmore, Ronnie Jame Dio, Jimmy Bain, Cozy Powell, and Tony Carey) only did one studio album - Rising. In fact, Rainbow never had the same lineup on any of their eight studio releases. This fits perfectly beside my mention of Whitesnake in my above post! I actually really liked the Micky Moody, Bernie Marsden, Jon Lord, Ian Paice version of Whitesnake. I think that lineup lasted two or three years in the early 80s. I think that revolving door is one of the reasons Whitesnake and Rainbow will never even be considered for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You mentioned Def Leppard. Their lineup has actually been pretty steady since 1983. The lone line up change happened after Steve Clark died, and Vivian Campbell took his place in 1992.
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Post by kds on Sept 4, 2019 15:54:23 GMT
The late 70s / early 80s arena rock / AOR movement with it's melodic brand of hard rock with great singers has been hit pretty hard in regards to lineups.
These bands were known for their clear vocals, and today, Journey, Styx, Kansas, Foreigner, and Boston are all still out there without their classic era lead singers.
Switching back to heavy metal, one of the most promising metal bands of the 80s was Seattle's Queensryche. Geoff Tate, Chris DeGarmo, Michael Wilton, Eddie Jackson, and Scott Rockenfield had an outstanding run of albums in the 80s, and peaked commercially with 1990's Empire album.
It was all downhill after that. Chris DeGarmo left the band in the 90s, leaving a huge void with his songwriting skills. The band continued without him for awhile, but stylistically got away from heavy metal as Geoff Tate took more creative control. It all blew up in 2012 when Wilton, Jackson, and Rockenfield formed Rising West, a more metal influenced band. Rising West was very short lived as they forced Tate out of Queensryche, and toured as Queensryche with more of a focus on their early material. Tate formed his own version of Queensryche, and there were two Queensryches for a few years before the courts ruled in favor of the Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfeld version. Geoff toured as Operation: Mindcrime after ward, and Queensryche continues to exist, and release new material. Rockenfield left the group two years ago, leaving Queensryche with 2/5 of their classic lineup.
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