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Post by Kapitan on Dec 31, 2023 3:23:06 GMT
4. The Smile Sessions - What else can be said about this. It is wonderful, but for some reason, I prefer Smile tracks in smaller bites. It is A LOT! I do, too. I like them just as the album Smile, which unfortunately we still don't REALLY have. But Disc 1 is as close as we're going to get. The whole box, though, is not something to be listened to like an album. None of those sessions sets are, imo. They're resources, like encyclopedias and dictionaries. Otherwise, how many times do you need to hear that Bicycle Rider theme, on how many instruments/voices, in how many situations, in one sitting?
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 2, 2024 5:52:04 GMT
I have more of a problem with the supposedly career spanning boxsets, it's easier to pick out what they left out. The Good Vibrations box (and oddly, I never think of it by that name, it's just the first BB cd box set...), for example...where are the 80's? We get all kinds of outtakes and oddities from throughout their career, along with the hits, until we get to the 80's. Goin' On, Getcha Back, Kokomo? Is that all? Surely there must have been some rare tracks they could have included... This is why I usually prefer the sets that concentrate on a specific era.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 2, 2024 13:38:45 GMT
I have more of a problem with the supposedly career spanning boxsets, it's easier to pick out what they left out. The Good Vibrations box (and oddly, I never think of it by that name, it's just the first BB cd box set...), for example... where are the 80's? We get all kinds of outtakes and oddities from throughout their career, along with the hits, until we get to the 80's. Goin' On, Getcha Back, Kokomo? Is that all? Surely there must have been some rare tracks they could have included... This is why I usually prefer the sets that concentrate on a specific era. Like you, I never referred to it as Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys. For years it was just the Beach Boys' boxed set. Then, as more and more comps came out, I had to be more specific with my designation. It is a lot to type out!
Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys didn't sell a lot but it was a critical success. I think the objective or the goal was to make it a heavy-Brian Wilson project, and it succeeded there. That would also explain the boxed set being a little light with the 80's material. Brian didn't do very much with The Beach Boys in the 80's. For this thread/exercise, I voted for this archival release, not just because of the overwhelming hits, but because of some of the oddities and especially the SMiLE tracks - which didn't get as much attention as they should've.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 2, 2024 13:48:57 GMT
I think there's more to consider on why it was light on '80s material.
First, there wasn't a lot of 80s material to begin with, relatively speaking.
Second, if you're trying to get people to rediscover or reconsider their opinion of the Beach Boys, keep in mind the 80s would have been part of what they were trying to get away from. In the 90s, a big part of the BBs newly revised reputation was (like it or not) Pet Sounds and Smile focused. It was indie rocker types, whether Sean O'Hagan and the High Llamas or all the Elephant 6 Bands who worshipped them (Apples in Stereo, Olivia Tremor Control, Of Montreal, Neutral Milk Hotel, and a lot of other bands that didn't really sell a lot but were influential), and a ton of others. And when you're trying to push the cool again, you don't go with the previous decade. Nothing was less cool in the 90s than the 80s. Whether Phil Collins and Huey Lewis, Poison and Motley Crue, the New Kids on the Block and New Edition, or Run DMC and Kool Moe Dee, it didn't much matter: it was the industry-wide version of the inevitable backlash that Jackson Browne mentions in the Endless Harmony doc re the Beach Boys. They were pushing a "cool version of the band you never knew," similar to what Sunshine Tomorrow was incessantly promoted as by some of its proponents, "they're right there with the Who," etc. When I became a fan--the mid-late 90s--barely anyone had anything good to say about the 80s. That was the Sunkist commercials era. It was what Brianistas were trying to bury, myself among them. It took time, and a new generation of fans who had nothing against 80s sounds in general (which are now HUGE in both mainstream and indie music), to change it.
Third, I would argue that there also really isn't much that warrants inclusion on a box set if you're going on merit. There wasn't much, as I said above, but really, of what there was, how much deserves a spot over a lot of the 60s and 70s music that was excluded? Unless you are putting quotas on things, most of it just doesn't rise to that level.
Oh yeah, re referring to it by name ... when it was the only box set, and in an era when most bands had either zero or one box set, it was normal to just say "the box set." There is nothing to differentiate against! Now there are fifty billion, so it's different.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 2, 2024 14:06:22 GMT
Possible songs from the 80's that could've been included on Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys:
- Keepin' The Summer Alive - California Calling - Where I Belong - California Dreamin' - Rock And Roll To The Rescue - Still Cruisin' - Somewhere Near Japan
Being as objective as I can, I don't think there would've been too much protest or criticism if any of those above songs were included. Why weren't they? Brian Wilson didn't write 'em. Now, the question is, what do you leave off? How about these seven:
- Surfin' (Rehearsal) - Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring (Demo) - Punchline - The Surfer Moon - And Your Dream Comes True - Pet Sounds - That Same Song
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 2, 2024 14:14:46 GMT
You won't get much argument from me about leaving off earlier things, either. But those that you mentioned as warranting a spot, I mostly think are at best mediocre. Regardless, I think my point #2 is the main one in this case. That music was recent, and it was the epitome of uncool at the time.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 2, 2024 14:28:45 GMT
In fact, just to demonstrate point #2--not necessarily going on my taste here--I think California Calling would be the epitome of what they would have wanted to avoid. It was exactly what the Beach Boys were pigeonholed as in terms of the style of the song, and it had uber-80s production.
It's the kind of thing that, if you liked early to mid 60s Beach Boys and wanted rehashes of it, and liked or didn't mind or didn't notice production, it was fine. Perfectly acceptable. But an all-timer, something for a box set? No. And definitely not if the whole selling point was "we're including this legendary, outsider/psychedelic music from the masterpiece of Smile that will change your mind about the Beach Boys." I'd say Still Cruisin fits right in that same vein, and KTSA to a lesser extent. If you're trying to lean into the "Brian Wilson is a genius" stuff, you want quirky or psychedelic or disturbing. That's what they were leaning into. (And for me at the time, thank goodness they did. I bought it. I listened to all of it. I got into that stuff and expanded outwards into the more traditional stuff.)
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 2, 2024 14:57:29 GMT
In fact, just to demonstrate point #2--not necessarily going on my taste here--I think California Calling would be the epitome of what they would have wanted to avoid. It was exactly what the Beach Boys were pigeonholed as in terms of the style of the song, and it had uber-80s production. It's the kind of thing that, if you liked early to mid 60s Beach Boys and wanted rehashes of it, and liked or didn't mind or didn't notice production, it was fine. Perfectly acceptable. But an all-timer, something for a box set? No. And definitely not if the whole selling point was "we're including this legendary, outsider/psychedelic music from the masterpiece of Smile that will change your mind about the Beach Boys." I'd say Still Cruisin fits right in that same vein, and KTSA to a lesser extent. If you're trying to lean into the "Brian Wilson is a genius" stuff, you want quirky or psychedelic or disturbing. That's what they were leaning into. (And for me at the time, thank goodness they did. I bought it. I listened to all of it. I got into that stuff and expanded outwards into the more traditional stuff.) I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point. I just felt/feel it would've been more important (better?) to stick with the formula of going with title tracks and singles on a boxed set. Yes, I know that doesn't guarantee they are the best or strongest songs, but in this case I do. Now, with "Where I Belong", it would've accomplished two things - it was a deeper cut and it featured Carl Wilson as not just a singer but as a songwriter. Oh, and it might've been the best song on the 1985 album. OK, you can question "California Calling", but it was performed live, featured Ringo on drums, and I think - think - it was a favorite of the fans from the album. Substitute it with "It's A Beautiful Day" or "It's Getting Late" - both singles. "Lahaina Aloha"?
Again, I see your point, but I'm not sure the band was trying to avoid their old image or felt pigeonholed. Not in the 80's. Hey, Carl wrote "Keeping The Summer Alive". "Getcha Back" was a hit. "Kokomo" went to #1. Summer In Paradise was a conscious choice. Now, if we're talking about the late 60's and early 70's, yeah, they were trying to move on, escape the image if you will. As far as trying to feature the "Brian Wilson was a genius" stuff, I think with five discs it was feasible to do both - highlight the deep Brian stuff but don't ignore the later "non-Brian" music. Or should I say they could've done a better job of it on Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys. Six, seven, eight songs on Disc 4 would've made a big difference.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 2, 2024 15:07:57 GMT
Again, I see your point, but I'm not sure the band was trying to avoid their old image or felt pigeonholed. Not in the 80's. Hey, Carl wrote "Keeping The Summer Alive". "Getcha Back" was a hit. "Kokomo" went to #1. Summer In Paradise was a conscious choice. I think that actually does miss my point: it's not what they were thinking in the 80s, it's what the people who put together the box were thinking in the 90s. But again, I am not even justifying that approach. I just think that was it. I think they were balancing a few objectives: one was a relatively complete representation of the group; but a second (very strong) one was highlighting that BW genius, not-what-you-thought-they-were music.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 2, 2024 15:21:50 GMT
Again, I see your point, but I'm not sure the band was trying to avoid their old image or felt pigeonholed. Not in the 80's. Hey, Carl wrote "Keeping The Summer Alive". "Getcha Back" was a hit. "Kokomo" went to #1. Summer In Paradise was a conscious choice. I think that actually does miss my point: it's not what they were thinking in the 80s, it's what the people who put together the box were thinking in the 90s. But again, I am not even justifying that approach. I just think that was it. I think they were balancing a few objectives: one was a relatively complete representation of the group; but a second (very strong) one was highlighting that BW genius, not-what-you-thought-they-were music. Yes, my post that you quoted doesn't specifically address your point... I agree with you that the compilers of the boxed set absolutely were trying to highlight Brian's "genius music". And, maybe they were trying to...overlook or ignore...the cheesiness (my word) of the 80's stuff because it didn't fit their agenda. My point is that I think they could've accomplished all of the above - even with including seven or eight songs from the 80's - and it would've been a stronger boxed set. There were weak(er) tracks to delete, stronger later ones to add, and they had the space to do it. And, I do get your point that you're not necessarily justifying the approach taken, just pointing out that it was what it was.
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Post by kds on Jan 2, 2024 19:18:53 GMT
Again, I see your point, but I'm not sure the band was trying to avoid their old image or felt pigeonholed. Not in the 80's. Hey, Carl wrote "Keeping The Summer Alive". "Getcha Back" was a hit. "Kokomo" went to #1. Summer In Paradise was a conscious choice. I think that actually does miss my point: it's not what they were thinking in the 80s, it's what the people who put together the box were thinking in the 90s. But again, I am not even justifying that approach. I just think that was it. I think they were balancing a few objectives: one was a relatively complete representation of the group; but a second (very strong) one was highlighting that BW genius, not-what-you-thought-they-were music. I agree. And, at the time, there was probably still some hope for more BW penned Beach Boys music. Of course, that wouldn't happen until 2012. I think if there was a boxset that could've been used for some 80s / 90s rarities, it would've been MIC. By the time that was released in 2013, the Beach Boys were pretty much done as a creative entity. Across six discs, I'm sure they could've found some room.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 2, 2024 20:05:25 GMT
I think that actually does miss my point: it's not what they were thinking in the 80s, it's what the people who put together the box were thinking in the 90s. But again, I am not even justifying that approach. I just think that was it. I think they were balancing a few objectives: one was a relatively complete representation of the group; but a second (very strong) one was highlighting that BW genius, not-what-you-thought-they-were music. I agree. And, at the time, there was probably still some hope for more BW penned Beach Boys music. Of course, that wouldn't happen until 2012. I think if there was a boxset that could've been used for some 80s / 90s rarities, it would've been MIC. By the time that was released in 2013, the Beach Boys were pretty much done as a creative entity. Across six discs, I'm sure they could've found some room. Yeah, that's true. Though it did have more, at least. It had four songs released in the 80s (Goin On, Getcha Back, California Dreamin, Kokomo), and three unreleased songs that probably would've been 80s releases, if released (Goin to the Beach, Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love, Da Doo Ron Ron). But yes, across six discs, there would be room to take it further either way: more complete representation, or more rarities/unreleased. And in terms of the real estate, Disc Five is basically where we kick off the 80s in that set. There are six of the aforementioned songs to kick it off (with GttB the last song on D4), then two 90s songs (the Wilson-Paley songs) and two 10s songs (the TWGMTR singles), and then 14 more live songs. And then another disc of unreleased stuff, alt mixes, radio spots, and more live songs. We've got over 2.5 discs of 60s, about 1.5 discs of 70s, then less than .5 discs of 80s and 90s combined. That does seem a bit off.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 2, 2024 20:46:01 GMT
I have more of a problem with the supposedly career spanning boxsets, it's easier to pick out what they left out. The Good Vibrations box (and oddly, I never think of it by that name, it's just the first BB cd box set...), for example... where are the 80's? We get all kinds of outtakes and oddities from throughout their career, along with the hits, until we get to the 80's. Goin' On, Getcha Back, Kokomo? Is that all? Surely there must have been some rare tracks they could have included... This is why I usually prefer the sets that concentrate on a specific era. Like you, I never referred to it as Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys. For years it was just the Beach Boys' boxed set. Then, as more and more comps came out, I had to be more specific with my designation. It is a lot to type out!
Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys didn't sell a lot but it was a critical success. I think the objective or the goal was to make it a heavy-Brian Wilson project, and it succeeded there. That would also explain the boxed set being a little light with the 80's material. Brian didn't do very much with The Beach Boys in the 80's. For this thread/exercise, I voted for this archival release, not just because of the overwhelming hits, but because of some of the oddities and especially the SMiLE tracks - which didn't get as much attention as they should've.
The SMiLE material was the big attraction for me. I remember getting the set through the public library, and having a friend record that onto high bias TDK cassette (I did not have a CD player yet - I was very, very poor in the 90's...poverty level).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 2, 2024 20:54:12 GMT
Like you, I never referred to it as Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys. For years it was just the Beach Boys' boxed set. Then, as more and more comps came out, I had to be more specific with my designation. It is a lot to type out!
Good Vibrations: Thirty Years Of The Beach Boys didn't sell a lot but it was a critical success. I think the objective or the goal was to make it a heavy-Brian Wilson project, and it succeeded there. That would also explain the boxed set being a little light with the 80's material. Brian didn't do very much with The Beach Boys in the 80's. For this thread/exercise, I voted for this archival release, not just because of the overwhelming hits, but because of some of the oddities and especially the SMiLE tracks - which didn't get as much attention as they should've.
The SMiLE material was the big attraction for me. I remember getting the set through the public library, and having a friend record that onto high bias TDK cassette (I did not have a CD player yet - I was very, very poor in the 90's...poverty level). I was obsessed with SMiLE mixes even back in the early 90's, so those 10-11 tracks were much appreciated, even though I already had a lot of SMiLE stuff on bootlegs. Many (most?) fans, however, didn't have that SMiLE material, and I think the response was little bit underwhelming. I mean, the SMiLE legend was still very strong then.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 3, 2024 3:06:25 GMT
The SMiLE material was the big attraction for me. I remember getting the set through the public library, and having a friend record that onto high bias TDK cassette (I did not have a CD player yet - I was very, very poor in the 90's...poverty level). I was obsessed with SMiLE mixes even back in the early 90's, so those 10-11 tracks were much appreciated, even though I already had a lot of SMiLE stuff on bootlegs. Many (most?) fans, however, didn't have that SMiLE material, and I think the response was little bit underwhelming. I mean, the SMiLE legend was still very strong then. I didn't have much--just what was on a French boot of Smiley Smile, which was Worms, the cantina H&V, and a few other bits I forget--and so some of it was new to me. That Wind Chimes and Wonderful were unbelievable to me, so good.
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