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Post by Kapitan on Aug 18, 2023 13:07:18 GMT
I probably haven't heard Stagger Lee, or given it much thought, since the days of WQSR Good Time Oldies, which went belly up two decades ago.
I definitely have a much greater appreciation for these songs than when it was forced on me in my Dad's car. I won't beat the dead horse again, but that's also how I heard a lot of these oldies - on great "oldies" radio stations that are now a thing of the past unless you seek them out online.
I also wanted to mention the old AM radio stations from the 1960s and 1970s. Yes, they had their playlist of current music that had to be played, but they also sprinkled in oldies from as far back as 10-15 years...and it worked! I distinctly remember the first time "Sloop John B" blew me away. I was stopped at a red light in Reading, PA on my way to a college class in 1976. I was listening to WFIL-AM in Philadelphia on the car radio and all of a sudden the flute-driven intro came on followed by Brian's vocal and it was like...WTF! At that time "Sloop" was already ten years old but it didn't matter. It sounded so damn good among all the other new music.
In some ways, the modern musial environment is almost more like old AM radio than were, say, the 80s through the 10s, because with the whole universe of music at our fingertips all the time, it's easier to have diverse playlists that skip eras easily. I hear all the time about "kids" (by which I mean anyone under 30!  ) don't really make distinctions between eras as decisively as the older among us, because it's all just current all the time. But the big difference, of course, is how you access it. Actual radio or online sources are usually increasingly narrow in their material--probably even worse than it was when I was growing up, and it was already awfully narrow by then--so it's up to listeners to create their own diverse playlists.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 18, 2023 13:14:56 GMT
I won't beat the dead horse again, but that's also how I heard a lot of these oldies - on great "oldies" radio stations that are now a thing of the past unless you seek them out online.
I also wanted to mention the old AM radio stations from the 1960s and 1970s. Yes, they had their playlist of current music that had to be played, but they also sprinkled in oldies from as far back as 10-15 years...and it worked! I distinctly remember the first time "Sloop John B" blew me away. I was stopped at a red light in Reading, PA on my way to a college class in 1976. I was listening to WFIL-AM in Philadelphia on the car radio and all of a sudden the flute-driven intro came on followed by Brian's vocal and it was like...WTF! At that time "Sloop" was already ten years old but it didn't matter. It sounded so damn good among all the other new music.
In some ways, the modern musial environment is almost more like old AM radio than were, say, the 80s through the 10s, because with the whole universe of music at our fingertips all the time, it's easier to have diverse playlists that skip eras easily. I hear all the time about "kids" (by which I mean anyone under 30! ) don't really make distinctions between eras as decisively as the older among us, because it's all just current all the time. But the big difference, of course, is how you access it. Actual radio or online sources are usually increasingly narrow in their material--probably even worse than it was when I was growing up, and it was already awfully narrow by then--so it's up to listeners to create their own diverse playlists. Good point(s) and I have noticed that, too. I will hear/pass someone playing an older song and my eyebrows will raise a little bit. It just kind of sticks out with their age or appearance or personality or whatever. Sometimes that will happen while I'm working. I'll engage the person in conversation and they will show me their cell phone (or whatever they're playing) and it will contain a list of songs that is very diverse. It makes for some fun conversation.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 18, 2023 13:17:18 GMT
In some ways, the modern musial environment is almost more like old AM radio than were, say, the 80s through the 10s, because with the whole universe of music at our fingertips all the time, it's easier to have diverse playlists that skip eras easily. I hear all the time about "kids" (by which I mean anyone under 30! ) don't really make distinctions between eras as decisively as the older among us, because it's all just current all the time. But the big difference, of course, is how you access it. Actual radio or online sources are usually increasingly narrow in their material--probably even worse than it was when I was growing up, and it was already awfully narrow by then--so it's up to listeners to create their own diverse playlists. Good point(s) and I have noticed that, too. I will hear/pass someone playing an older song and my eyebrows will raise a little bit. It just kind of sticks out with their age or appearance or personality or whatever. Sometimes that will happen while I'm working. I'll engage the person in conversation and they will show me their cell phone (or whatever they're playing) and it will contain a list of songs that is very diverse. It makes for some fun conversation. Unfortunately it takes a curious listener to seek out that diverse music. Otherwise it's "90s-inspired UK post shoegaze rock" or "Atlanta-based alternative drill rap" or "late 70s British post Zeppelin blues rock" or some other absurdly specific sub-subgenre that a person is pelted with. But at least it's all available, all the time. As opposed to all time up through the past 10-15 years when tons and tons of music went in and out of print/circulation all the time.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 18, 2023 13:30:31 GMT
Good point(s) and I have noticed that, too. I will hear/pass someone playing an older song and my eyebrows will raise a little bit. It just kind of sticks out with their age or appearance or personality or whatever. Sometimes that will happen while I'm working. I'll engage the person in conversation and they will show me their cell phone (or whatever they're playing) and it will contain a list of songs that is very diverse. It makes for some fun conversation. Unfortunately it takes a curious listener to seek out that diverse music. Otherwise it's "90s-inspired UK post shoegaze rock" or "Atlanta-based alternative drill rap" or "late 70s British post Zeppelin blues rock" or some other absurdly specific sub-subgenre that a person is pelted with. But at least it's all available, all the time. As opposed to all time up through the past 10-15 years when tons and tons of music went in and out of print/circulation all the time. It does take a curious listener - and we love 'em - but what I find to be one of the main reasons for the diversity (especially with the older music) is their parents' influence. We talk about our parents' influence on our personal tastes frequently. Many times, especially through my work, when I ask somebody how they came across a particular song, their response will be something like, "My Dad listens to that stuff all the time and he shared his downloads with me." Just the other day at work a 20-something kid was playing this great mix on his cell phone consisting of early Rush, KISS, Led Zeppelin, and AD/DC. I walked over to him and praised his taste in music and thanked him for making my day. He said that his dad was in a classic rock cover band and that he (the kid) grew up listening to this stuff. Now, whenever this kid sees me he knows what to play!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 18, 2023 13:46:27 GMT
For sure! Parents, a "cool" (usually slightly younger than parents) aunt or uncle, an older brother or sister, etc. Without a radio offering random (from a listener's perspective), diverse music, that curiosity usually requires at least some spark of inspiration, if not outright curating, from somebody else.
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Post by jk on Aug 18, 2023 14:19:03 GMT
I am woefully ignorant of much of the music and performers of this era. ... Thanks Kapitan, for opening my eyes. Can’t wait to see how the musical styles progress... Honestly I'm in the same boat as you. My parents did have a reasonable number of records from the late 50s or early 60s, but it was far from exhaustive. And I never really dug in beyond that with a few specific exceptions (mostly jazz). So while I really, really know some specific things, there is a TON I've never heard, or sometimes even never heard of. I'm learning as much as anyone else with this thread, and probably more than several of you. Now that's the thing about threads that organize themselves, so to speak. I have two "timelines" going (down the road apiece) that needed a lot of work to get in place but now require one post a year! One in particular has been incredibly educational. Much like this one, even though I'm familiar with every entry up until now. It's the additional information that makes fascinating reading, to say nothing of the musical input of others along the way. 
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 19, 2023 1:28:08 GMT
Good point(s) and I have noticed that, too. I will hear/pass someone playing an older song and my eyebrows will raise a little bit. It just kind of sticks out with their age or appearance or personality or whatever. Sometimes that will happen while I'm working. I'll engage the person in conversation and they will show me their cell phone (or whatever they're playing) and it will contain a list of songs that is very diverse. It makes for some fun conversation. Unfortunately it takes a curious listener to seek out that diverse music. Otherwise it's "90s-inspired UK post shoegaze rock" or "Atlanta-based alternative drill rap" or "late 70s British post Zeppelin blues rock" or some other absurdly specific sub-subgenre that a person is pelted with. That is exactly the problem. Most people aren't curious enough to seek out anything that's not already in their wheelhouse. But it does happen occasionally, yes. It's nice to meet a teen or 20-something that actually knows Clarence "Frogman" Henry, the Searchers, Johnny Preston or Phil Ochs.
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Post by carllove on Aug 19, 2023 6:09:40 GMT
Unfortunately it takes a curious listener to seek out that diverse music. Otherwise it's "90s-inspired UK post shoegaze rock" or "Atlanta-based alternative drill rap" or "late 70s British post Zeppelin blues rock" or some other absurdly specific sub-subgenre that a person is pelted with. That is exactly the problem. Most people aren't curious enough to seek out anything that's not already in their wheelhouse. But it does happen occasionally, yes. It's nice to meet a teen or 20-something that actually knows Clarence "Frogman" Henry, the Searchers, Johnny Preston or Phil Ochs. I was just excited when my Daughter discovered Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Aerosmith, and Gun’s and Roses. I’m 60 and from that list, am only familiar with the Searchers.
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Post by jk on Aug 19, 2023 8:18:36 GMT
That is exactly the problem. Most people aren't curious enough to seek out anything that's not already in their wheelhouse. But it does happen occasionally, yes. It's nice to meet a teen or 20-something that actually knows Clarence "Frogman" Henry, the Searchers, Johnny Preston or Phil Ochs. I was just excited when my Daughter discovered Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Aerosmith, and Gun’s and Roses. I’m 60 and from that list, am only familiar with the Searchers. Johnny Preston has a BB connection. His transatlantic #1 "Running Bear" possibly influenced Brian's faux Native American vocalizings on "Bicycle Rider" and Mike covered that song (as "Runnin' Bear") in 1976. Indeed, Johnny and the Frogman are likely candidates for this thread. 
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Post by carllove on Aug 19, 2023 15:28:28 GMT
I was just excited when my Daughter discovered Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Aerosmith, and Gun’s and Roses. I’m 60 and from that list, am only familiar with the Searchers. Johnny Preston has a BB connection. His transatlantic #1 "Running Bear" possibly influenced Brian's faux Native American vocalizings on "Bicycle Rider" and Mike covered that song (as "Runnin' Bear") in 1976. Indeed, Johnny and the Frogman are likely candidates for this thread. Well you know “Do You Like Worms” made my Beach Boys 1966 top 10, so that information is pretty fascinating to me. I had no idea. It makes sense, given Brian’s age, that music from the late 50’s would influence Brian’s artistry years later.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 20, 2023 12:35:05 GMT
"Venus," Frankie Avalon
March 9 through April 6, 1959 (5 weeks)
By the time he was 12 years old, Francis Thomas Avalonne was kind of a big deal. Young Francis, stage name Frankie Avalon, was the son of a Neopolitan (Nicholas) and Sicilian (Mary) immigrant. He made his network television debut in 1952 playing trumpet in a Honeymooners sketch on The Jackie Gleason Show. He was good enough that RCA Victor's subsidiary X Records released a pair of singles showcasing Avalon's trumpeting in 1954.
Avalon pursued both music and acting, playing with a young Robert Louis Ridarelli in a band called Rocco and the Saints. ("Rocco" was Ridarelli--later known as Bobby Rydell--who sang and played drums. Avalon, then, was a Saint.) He appeared on television, and made his first film appearance portraying himself in the rock-and-roll movie Jamboree in 1957.
In 1957, signed to the powerful Philadelphia-based Chancellor Records, Avalon began releasing singles as a lead vocalist. After two misses, his third single, ""DeDe Dinah," broke into the Top 10, peaking at #7. During 1958, he had four more singles, all of which charted--two of which in the Top 20.
But 1959 is when Avalon scored his first chart-topper. Ed Marshall's "Venus" was the tune, a pop song in which Avalon sings his plea to the Roman goddess of love. The song remained atop the charts for five weeks. Even when it dropped, Avalon's success did not soon wane. He continued to land hits throughout 1959, 1960, and into 1961.
However, in 1960, Avalon began to heat up as an actor even more than as a singer. His second dramatic role was in John Wayne's The Alamo, with Wayne saying of his young costar "We're not cutting one bit of any scene in which Frankie appears. I believe he is the finest young talent I've seen in a long time." That year, Avalon himself refused to be pigeonholed: "I'd like to be identified as a singer, dancer, and actor. I don't want to be just one thing."
Even when his hitmaking career as a teen idol dried up in the early '60s, Avalon continued releasing music, all the while working steadily as an actor throughout that decade (and, although less regularly, in the decades thereafter). But for now, Mr. Avalon's first--but not last--#1 Hot 100 hit, "Venus."
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 21, 2023 11:42:15 GMT
Frankie Avalon was an interesting artist, or maybe more accurately, his career was interesting. And successful. He more than adequately filled that gap between early rock & roll (Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino) and the early 60s (The Beach Boys, The Beatles, The Four Seasons, Phil Spector, The British Invasion). I think Frankie is mostly looked upon as clean-cut, teen-ish, and maybe even lightweight. But, over the course of 4-5 years, he had 31 charting singles and two #1 singles. That ain't bad. As an actor, Frankie is mostly known for his "beach party" movies, but those films were very popular. That's why they kept making them. Frankie's popularity certainly dipped when he hit 25, but he did have a second act. Well, maybe two.
Frankie Avalon and his wife, Kathryn (they've been married 60 years), had eight children! And Frankie started a "second act" which he is still involved in today. Frankie, Fabian Forte', and Bobby Rydell started a group called The Golden Boys back in the 1980s. All three were Italian boys who grew up in Philadelphia and remained friends for years. The Golden Boys are a very popular live act. I never saw them in person but I've seen YouTube videos and they appear to be very entertaining. Sadly, Bobby Rydell passed away in 2022 and another Italian/Pennsylvanian, Lou Christie ("Lightning Strikes"), has been filling in.
"Venus"? Love it! A great pop record. The melody, the lyrics, Frankie's vocal - all great. "Venus" has held up well over the years. It still sounds fresh. You'll find it on almost every late 50s/early 60s comp and oldies station.
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Post by jk on Aug 21, 2023 11:47:14 GMT
"Venus," Frankie Avalon
March 9 through April 6, 1959 (5 weeks) I recall seeing a picture in the Radio Times of the late '50s, early '60s of Frankie Avalon and Fabian as representing a new generation of "pretty boys" after the "demise" of rock and roll. A shame really, as Frankie and another "pretty boy", his friend Bobby Rydell, were fine singers. I understand Frankie will feature a second time in this thread. Why do I think that?
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 21, 2023 15:38:47 GMT
I think "Venus" is my least favorite song to top the Hot 100 so far, with the likely exception of "Volare." It's fine, but it's not for me.
That said, it's 5-week stay atop the charts is the second-longest (to Tommy Edwards's "It's All In The Game," at six weeks) to this point in the admittedly brief history of the Hot 100 (about eight or nine months of which we've covered).
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Post by kds on Aug 21, 2023 16:32:00 GMT
I don't feel too strongly about Venus. It's pleasant, and all. Would I ever actively listen to it, stick it on a playlist, or in a queue on Spotify? Probably not. If it came on at random, would I skip it? Eh, probably not.
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) don't really make distinctions between eras as decisively as the older among us, because it's all just current all the time.
