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Post by kds on Jan 28, 2023 21:45:19 GMT
Lyrically, Bill and Sue feels like a square peg. I think its a somewhat forced attempt at some sort of commentary on modern pop culture. Seems like subject matter that would be better handled by Tom Petty or Roger Waters.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 30, 2023 12:54:43 GMT
I agree with the above comments. When I first read about the song title, I got excited. When I first heard the song, I got disappointed. As one of Joe Thomas' bigger (biggest?) fans, I was surprised that he didn't salvage this song. He tried - his contribution is the best part of the song - but Joe is a finisher and this song is...not finished.
The lyrics? Like the song - disappointing, confusing, incomplete, and trying (and failing) to be hip/current. And fans are quick to criticize Mike Love? Brian probably didn't, but did Joe Thomas ever address this song?
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 30, 2023 13:01:16 GMT
Brian probably didn't, but did Joe Thomas ever address this song?
Thomas talks about it in at least the two articles I linked in the first post about this song. But there isn't a lot beyond the quotes I posted and summaries I wrote. Basically, Brian had the idea and a verse, and Joe liked the concept and added the chorus (and presumably wrote more lyrics). Even the idea of it being an attempt at contemporary issues (as I think both kds and Sheriff John Stone said or alluded to) is somewhat funny, in that reality TV began in earnest in the early '90s and peaked probably 7-10 years before this song was released, in the early 2000s. If there is one thing more embarrassing than trying to be contemporary, it's trying and failing to be contemporary.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 30, 2023 13:23:55 GMT
Brian probably didn't, but did Joe Thomas ever address this song?
Thomas talks about it in at least the two articles I linked in the first post about this song. But there isn't a lot beyond the quotes I posted and summaries I wrote. Basically, Brian had the idea and a verse, and Joe liked the concept and added the chorus (and presumably wrote more lyrics). Even the idea of it being an attempt at contemporary issues (as I think both kds and Sheriff John Stone said or alluded to) is somewhat funny, in that reality TV began in earnest in the early '90s and peaked probably 7-10 years before this song was released, in the early 2000s. If there is one thing more embarrassing than trying to be contemporary, it's trying and failing to be contemporary. I should've re-worded my question better. I guess I was wondering what Joe thinks about the ultimate, finished product, in more retrospect. He explained in detail how the song came about, but does he think they pulled it off? To his satisfaction? Is he happy with the completed song? I know, he probably couldn't/can't be honest. Remember the last time he was...outspoken? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 30, 2023 13:26:30 GMT
Ah, I see what you meant. My guess is he, knowing which side his bread was buttered on, wouldn't criticize end product while he was being interviewed at that time--in the immediate aftermath of the album's release, during the tour he was producing, etc.
It's yet another in a long list of people whose honest opinions would be interesting, but whom I don't expect to give them until the principals are dead ... if even then. (Brian's band members, and especially Darian, also fit in that category.)
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Post by kds on Jan 30, 2023 13:44:49 GMT
Brian probably didn't, but did Joe Thomas ever address this song?
Thomas talks about it in at least the two articles I linked in the first post about this song. But there isn't a lot beyond the quotes I posted and summaries I wrote. Basically, Brian had the idea and a verse, and Joe liked the concept and added the chorus (and presumably wrote more lyrics). Even the idea of it being an attempt at contemporary issues (as I think both kds and Sheriff John Stone said or alluded to) is somewhat funny, in that reality TV began in earnest in the early '90s and peaked probably 7-10 years before this song was released, in the early 2000s. If there is one thing more embarrassing than trying to be contemporary, it's trying and failing to be contemporary. To be fair, it's not like reality TV was a passing fad. Sure, it probably peaked in the 2000s, but it was still pretty big by the spring/summer of 2012, and remains so today.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 30, 2023 13:48:08 GMT
True, it didn't go away. But it seems less worth discussing once it is the norm--especially to discuss as a curiosity, which is how it is presented here, as if they are just noticing how strange it is to have celebrities who do nothing of merit.
That isn't to say I think the topic should have been avoided. I'm not big on "should" especially with respect to topics. Talk about whatever tickles your fancy. But it just came across in the most bland way possible here.
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Post by kds on Jan 30, 2023 14:22:46 GMT
I agree with the above comments. When I first read about the song title, I got excited. When I first heard the song, I got disappointed. As one of Joe Thomas' bigger (biggest?) fans, I was surprised that he didn't salvage this song. He tried - his contribution is the best part of the song - but Joe is a finisher and this song is...not finished.
The lyrics? Like the song - disappointing, confusing, incomplete, and trying (and failing) to be hip/current. And fans are quick to criticize Mike Love? Brian probably didn't, but did Joe Thomas ever address this song?
The song sounds finished to me. It's just, IMO, not one of the better efforts in the Joe/Brian canon.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 30, 2023 14:33:41 GMT
I agree with the above comments. When I first read about the song title, I got excited. When I first heard the song, I got disappointed. As one of Joe Thomas' bigger (biggest?) fans, I was surprised that he didn't salvage this song. He tried - his contribution is the best part of the song - but Joe is a finisher and this song is...not finished.
The lyrics? Like the song - disappointing, confusing, incomplete, and trying (and failing) to be hip/current. And fans are quick to criticize Mike Love? Brian probably didn't, but did Joe Thomas ever address this song?
The song sounds finished to me. It's just, IMO, not one of the better efforts in the Joe/Brian canon. Musically, yes, it sounds finished. It has an intro (albeit boring), a verse, a chorus (pretty good), and a fade (weird, too; I never associated reality show figures with "announcers" broadcasting live like that). And, the song has some good BB backgrounds. I just always thought that "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" was another example of Brian offering what he had to offer and saying, "That's it. That's all I got", and leaving it to Joe to finish. And I didn't think he finished it. In a unique way for a BW song, the lyrics are actually important, and they come up short in this case. It leaves me scratching my head.
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 30, 2023 14:36:32 GMT
I think it sounds finished musically, although it's not especially interesting in that respect. But lyrically, it does seem almost like a first draft or rushed job. Both musically and lyrically, it's the verses I think are weakest. "The private life of Bill and Sue / can you dig what I'm telling you" is not exactly what I'd call a strong opener...
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Post by Kapitan on Jan 30, 2023 14:39:23 GMT
(weird, too; I never associated reality show figures with "announcers" broadcasting live like that). I think that part is awkward, too. In one way, it is essential, because it's the only part of the song that actually tells the supposed concept of the song: that the reality show couple faked their own disappearance. That was the whole point, as Thomas tells it. But the actual lyrics to the song never further that plot at all, and instead just focus on the waste of time of watching reality TV. Which is fine and all, but why have some overarching narrative if you don't actually incorporate it into the lyrics anyway? It's clunky.
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Post by kds on Jan 30, 2023 14:41:33 GMT
I think it sounds finished musically, although it's not especially interesting in that respect. But lyrically, it does seem almost like a first draft or rushed job. Both musically and lyrically, it's the verses I think are weakest. "The private life of Bill and Sue / can you dig what I'm telling you" is not exactly what I'd call a strong opener... I always thought that line in particular was pretty lazy. I'm not a lyric writer, but I could easily throw out something like The private life of Bill and Sue Millions tune in to see what they do Or Living their lives in public view.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 30, 2023 14:42:40 GMT
Getting back to when I first read about the title "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue"...I was thinking "suite". Yes, I was! More unrealistic expectations? Fantasizing?
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jan 30, 2023 14:48:24 GMT
I think it sounds finished musically, although it's not especially interesting in that respect. But lyrically, it does seem almost like a first draft or rushed job. Both musically and lyrically, it's the verses I think are weakest. "The private life of Bill and Sue / can you dig what I'm telling you" is not exactly what I'd call a strong opener... I always thought that line in particular was pretty lazy. I'm not a lyric writer, but I could easily throw out something like The private life of Bill and Sue Millions tune in to see what they do Or Living their lives in public view. Which makes me think about Mike Love. "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" is probably a song that pissed off Mike because we know, from subsequent interviews, that he was expecting (promised?) to write more songs with Brian for That's Why God Made The Radio. I wonder if Mike listened to "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and thought, "Hell, I could've written something better than that..."
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Post by kds on Jan 30, 2023 14:50:22 GMT
I always thought that line in particular was pretty lazy. I'm not a lyric writer, but I could easily throw out something like The private life of Bill and Sue Millions tune in to see what they do Or Living their lives in public view. Which makes me think about Mike Love. "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" is probably a song that pissed off Mike because we know, from subsequent interviews, that he was expecting (promised?) to write more songs with Brian for That's Why God Made The Radio. I wonder if Mike listened to "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue" and thought, "Hell, I could've written something better than that..."
I could also picture Mike thinking "This isn't the kind of song The Beach Boys should be doing. What about love? What about cars? What about the beach? You know we should keep beaches in mind......hey wait a minute."
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