Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
Posts: 520
Likes: 532
|
Post by Emdeeh on Jul 22, 2022 17:39:17 GMT
One of the reasons Brian got the KCH when he did was because his fans started campaigning for him. But now that groups are being allowed for consideration, I think the BBs are long overdue.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 23, 2022 0:51:27 GMT
I wonder if it's possible that the Kennedy Center knew of the split in the Beach Boys camp, and just decided to avoid any possible drama and just opt to induct Brian as an individual. I very much think that came into play. I just have this feeling - no proof, pure speculation - that they didn't want to "go there" with parts of The Beach Boys' story including Manson, drugs, drownings, lawsuits, intergroup fighting, etc. Oh, of course Brian Wilson was a part of most of that mess, but in the mind of Brianistas, Brian Wilson = Pet Sounds, "Good Vibrations", creating the summer soundtrack of our lives, overcoming mental illness (it wasn't the drugs )...well, you get the picture. Love and Mercy!
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Jul 23, 2022 5:00:58 GMT
I think even inducting McCartney solo was stupid. Sure he's had some success alone, but what he will be remembered for years from now is being a Beatle. If anything else is remembered, it will be all those hits in the Wings years. And if you're going to induct The Who, how do you NOT include John and Keith?
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jul 23, 2022 12:13:30 GMT
I think even inducting McCartney solo was stupid. Sure he's had some success alone, but what he will be remembered for years from now is being a Beatle. If anything else is remembered, it will be all those hits in the Wings years. McCartney wasn't inducted "solo". He was inducted as an individual for the significant contributions he'd made during his lifetime. Many of those contributions were delivered through Beatles releases, but not all. And even if they were, it wouldn't matter. They'd still honor the individual, Paul McCartney. And if you're going to induct The Who, how do you NOT include John and Keith? I'm pretty sure you are aware of this considering your comment about Little Richard, but inductees must be living to receive the honor. That is right in the description: "The Kennedy Center Honors provide recognition to living individuals..." They may have muddied the waters regarding individuals/groups, but not living/dead. Beyond that point, I'd argue that a potential group of equals doesn't deserve to be honored amongst individuals. So, in other words, if you can't separate the contributions of an individual from a group, then this isn't the honor for them ( and if that's the case, oh well, there are plenty of other awards for these people). I think John Lennon and Paul McCartney's contributions standout from their group. As does Brian Wilson's (and maybe Mike Love's - but they are not equals, which matters in this situation). I think most bands, whether the diehards want to admit it or not, have a pretty clear pecking order. If the individual or two at the top's contributions to American culture are that great...if their individual excellence is apparent, then they're worthy of this honor.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jul 23, 2022 12:47:06 GMT
I'm fascinated by this Kennedy Center Honors topic. Like I posted above, I'm still trying to find a pattern for their nominating/selecting process, and I can't find one. This is my prevailing theory, and again, it's pure speculation.
I think there were only so many singers/musicians/artists from that older generation (Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Perry Como, Lena Horne, Sammy Davis, Jr., etc.) and eventually they were going to have to enter those "dangerous" decades of the 1960s and 1970s - which included rock and roll. And, I'm assuming, to some extent, they welcomed that, even if just for the attention and ratings it would bring. I'm not being sarcastic; I'm sure the people making the decisions were fans/grew up with rock and roll and sincerely believed that those musicians were as much artists as those past members - and deserved the honor.
It almost appears that they started out trying to differentiate themselves from The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, and selected individuals from a group as opposed to recognizing the entire group. Thus, we get Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen, Diana Ross, Tina Turner (no way Ike would be included ), and others. And, it almost appears that they intentionally selected more individual artists (Bob Dylan, Carole King, Stevie Wonder, Elton John, Dolly Parton, Al Green, etc.) than groups - and they certainly deserved it!
Then, we get The Who, Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, U2 - and there will be more rock and groups. It's almost like they shifted gears or said, "Well, we're running out of "individuals"; I guess we gotta go with groups...". And, it's not that they couldn't have continued with just individuals, say Pete Townshend only, Jimmy Page & Robert Plant, Don Henley & Glenn Frey, Bono only, etc. And, do you what else appears to be accepted? Some of the, um, questionable behavior off stage. I mean, Keith Moon, John Entwhistle, Jimmy Page, John Bonham, Joe Walsh. Hey, I guess The Beach Boys would fit in!
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jul 23, 2022 13:23:09 GMT
If you're trying to find patterns and logic in such institutions, may I suggest something easier? Like maybe proof of the Lochness Monster? Or evidence of life after death? Or Springsteen tickets under $100?
|
|
|
Post by B.E. on Jul 23, 2022 13:51:37 GMT
Like I posted above, I'm still trying to find a pattern for their nominating/selecting process, and I can't find one. From inception in 1978 and for the ensuing 30 years, which equates to over 150 recipients, there is a pretty concrete pattern. Technically, there are a few other duos sprinkled in but I think there is a clear pattern up to the point they started inducting rock groups. I agree with you, though, that after that point the criteria is not clear. I used the words "inconsistent and sporadic" earlier in relation to the induction of groups from 2008 onward. Then, we get The Who, Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, U2 - and there will be more rock and groups. It's almost like they shifted gears or said, "Well, we're running out of "individuals"; I guess we gotta go with groups...". And, it's not that they couldn't have continued with just individuals, say Pete Townshend only, Jimmy Page & Robert Plant, Don Henley & Glenn Frey, Bono only, etc. And, do you what else appears to be accepted? Some of the, um, questionable behavior off stage. I mean, Keith Moon, John Entwhistle, Jimmy Page, John Bonham, Joe Walsh. Hey, I guess The Beach Boys would fit in! I agree, they appear to have shifted gears. And I also agree that they didn't have to! More than that, they shouldn't have. These things are meant to be exclusive, not inclusive. Make the tough decisions. Only honor the best. And be consistent...and clear. To not follow what they'd done for 30 years undermines the entire institution. Speculation-wise, maybe if George Harrison were still alive in 2010 they induct The Beatles, but because only Paul and Ringo were left, it was an easier decision. Who knows? This is what happens when you break convention. The thing is, no matter how inclusive you want to be, there's still a line to be drawn. They can't include all the members of most groups. Even if they were to induct the Beach Boys, I don't see how they could include Blondie and Ricky. Even David Marks and Bruce Johnston aren't no-brainers. I mean, look at the Eagles selected - no Bernie Leadon or Randy Meisner! I don't understand why they'd go down this path. It's not warranted, IMO. Instead of going further down it, they ought to revert back. There are plenty of individuals worthy. Let's not take spots from them. And perhaps the committee could make more of an effort to honor people before they die.
|
|