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Post by Kapitan on Jun 24, 2022 13:32:31 GMT
But, I think his work from the 60s and early 70s still puts his above any other BB lyricist in my opinion. I definitely agree with that among the band members themselves, and I do rate those lyrics very high overall in their recordings (even including outside writers).
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by Emdeeh on Jun 24, 2022 16:44:26 GMT
But, I think his [Mike's] work from the 60s and early 70s still puts his above any other BB lyricist in my opinion. I have to agree with this assessment. I like VDP's word-play well enough, but I love the Wilson/Love songwriting team's output the most.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Jun 24, 2022 19:08:30 GMT
A tough question...
I think the best lyricist was Tony Asher. Those eight Pet Sounds' songs are hard to beat. I mean, just listen to "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "That's Not Me", "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", and "Caroline, No". Oh, did I mention "God Only Knows", "You Still Believe In Me", "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)", and "Here Today"? With all due respect to Mike Love, while Mike was writing excellent lyrics around that time (1965), I don't know if he could've gotten a little more...maybe sophisticated or mature(?)...and met Brian's needs for Pet Sounds. Certainly if Mike would've written all of the lyrics on Pet Sounds (he did supply some lyrics to a couple of PS songs), it might've been similar but probably not as good. Sorry, Mike.
But, no problem, Mike, as I will vote for you as my favorite BB lyricist. There's just so many Beach Boys' classics that say B. Wilson / M. Love on the label. And some that don't. Many (most?) of the songs that Brian and Mike wrote are the very songs that, to a large percentage of fans, ARE The Beach Boys. Yes, Mike was flawed and some would say "corny" at times, but he and Brian got on a roll and pulled it off. You can't deny it. It worked so well (how's that for an understatement? ).
That being said, I think that some of Mike's lyrics are a little overrated. Brian's music carries many of the songs/tracks. On some B.Wilson / M. Love songs, if you listen to them closely or analyze them, Mike's lyrics aren't anything special. While Mike's lyrics help and are obviously effective, I don't hear them as "Wow, what great words!" I think where Mike Love doesn't get enough credit is coming up with the concepts of the songs in the first place. I often wonder how many times Mike went to Brian and said, "Why don't we write a song about school spirit?" or "What about a song about cruising around to new parts of town, just the guys..." or "How about if we write about California girls being our favorite?" or "Let's write a song about reminiscing and going back and doin' it again?". Obviously, Brian could've - and did - find other compatible lyricists, but Mike "had his ear" many times and the two clicked tremendously.
One more thing on Tony Asher. Isn't it incredible that, other than a few songs, Brian never hooked up with Tony Asher again for some serious songwriting. I mean, they only collaborated on one of, if not the greatest album of all time. That darn Brian was something else. He always moved on. But, it's still hard to believe that Brian wasn't tempted and/or didn't give in and collaborate with Tony on a later, follow up album/project.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 24, 2022 19:25:50 GMT
One more thing on Tony Asher. Isn't it incredible that, other than a few songs, Brian never hooked up with Tony Asher again for some serious songwriting. I mean, they only collaborated on one of, if not the greatest album of all time. That darn Brian was something else. He always moved on. But, it's still hard to believe that Brian wasn't tempted and/or didn't give in and collaborate with Tony on a later, follow up album/project. A lot to agree with throughout that post, Sheriff John Stone, but I wanted to highlight the quoted part. That is such a strange thing. I've always wondered if part of the issue was the slight, but important, age and lifestyle difference and the circumstances right at that time. Tony was a few years older and if I'm not mistaken had a family, and of course he worked a 9-to-5 "normal" job. Brian was married, but not yet a parent, and clearly just entering a pretty adventurous phase in terms of his personal life.
Obviously VDP was a key piece of the Smile idea early on, but even if we pretend he weren't around, it's hard to imagine Tony Asher being involved in meetings in a tent smoking hash, or writing in a sandbox, or hanging out as people lit fires in trash cans or lay on the floor singing up into mics. I think he probably was a bit too square (in the best possible way, in this case) for that scene. As that fell apart, it isn't as if Brian returned to any extended period of normalcy for ... well, ... I don't know how long. You could argue ever, but at least until the 90s. Had they thought about working together again, it would have seemed pretty strange for a "normal person" to try to work with Brian, I'd think. This wasn't one of Brian's drugging buddies or hipster friends. It might have been more like the stories Hal Blaine and others tell about trying to work with Brian in the mid-70s...not exactly an artistically fulfilling partnership, from their perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2022 9:47:08 GMT
1962-1965 - Mike 1966 - Tony Asher 1967-1970 - errrrrrrrrrrr... 1971-73 - Jack Rieley thereafter - no-one, really...
Interesting aside: I very recently discovered that the lyrics for my #1 all-time champeen BW solo song, "Midnight's Another Day", are by Jenny Harrison.
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Post by jk on Jun 26, 2022 11:10:54 GMT
1962-1965 - Mike 1966 - Tony Asher 1967-1970 - errrrrrrrrrrr... 1971-73 - Jack Rieleythereafter - no-one, really... After a great deal of prevarication and prompted by the above, I'd like to put in a good word for Jack R, who co-wrote some of my favourite BB songs, including three on my favourite album, Surf's Up. Other points in his favour are that he lived for a long time in NL and was, let's say, flamboyant in his approach to life. His ten (?) co-writes would make a nice BB-length LP.
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Post by Kapitan on Jun 26, 2022 11:53:15 GMT
No love for early collaborator Roger Christian yet. He's not my favorite (I suppose mostly because I know and care nothing for cars), but I think his lyrics were great for what they were doing.
Most importantly from my perspective, he gave us "Don't Worry Baby," one of the greatest Beach Boys songs of all time. He warrants mention for that alone, to say nothing of "Little Deuce Coupe," "Shut Down," and a small handful of other car-themed songs.
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Post by jk on Aug 1, 2022 17:35:41 GMT
This thread seems to have been left to me. And a month later I have a new question. What anecdotes do you have about your relationship with Pet Sounds? Everyone must have at least one. The one that first comes to my mind is more than a little embarrassing. I was looking after this chap's house in the winter of 1972. My friend had conveniently wrecked the massive state-of-the-art stereo while recording stuff from the house's collection onto his tape machine, so I was left with a simple Dansette-type thing that stood on the floor. I must be the only person on the planet who has ever trodden on Pet Sounds while it was playing. Who's next?
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 1, 2022 17:47:44 GMT
This thread seems to have been left to me. Sorry, I didn't realize it was meant for everyone to add questions to: I was under the impression you intended to guide it all along. (I actually do like that, just lending a bit of structure rather than the chaos of everyone "running things.")
As for the question ... I'm not actually sure I have much of an anecdote about Pet Sounds. Maybe the story of how I got into it, which was based largely on seeing it appearing on best-of lists, end-of-century lists, etc., and thinking an album by the Beach Boys (whom I did not like, and considered a lame surf-car band) couldn't possibly rate alongside the Beatles or Led Zeppelin, etc. I ordered the CD through one of those Columbia House or BMG deals (along with another bunch of those similarly rated albums I hadn't heard yet) and remember listening to it being surprised at the instrumentation more than anything. I was expecting surf guitar, bass, drums, piano/organ. And here were these woodwinds, brass, auxiliary percussion, strings, and of course beautifully arranged vocals. It was so different than I'd expected it to be.
Not sure if that's much of an anecdote, but I think it's all I've got!
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Post by kds on Aug 1, 2022 18:12:43 GMT
Like Kap, I don't really have an anecdote about Pet Sounds.
Except, it was one of the ultimate slow burns in my collection.
In the summer of 2006, I purchased a copy of the album on CD (I think through BMG) at the same time I got Sounds of Summer, thinking well, this is the big album, the big masterpiece. If I'm going to delve into The Beach Boys, I have to have it. I knew the big three songs from it, but really nothing else.
I was immediately underwhelmed upon first listen. This...this is one of the great albums of all time? I didn't hear it. Yet. I even balked when Brian Wilson played a Pet Sounds show that November featuring Al Jardine in DC.
Every now and then, I'd play it. But, nothing.
By the early 10s, I recall I Know There's an Answer grabbing my attention.
After seeing the C50 show in June 2012, featuring IJWMFTT, I was a little more intrigued. The album began to grow on me, but I still didn't feel like it deserved "greatest album ever" status.
I met my eventual wife in September 2012. We discussed The Beach Boys a bit, since I was coming off that summer of 2012 where I'd been borderline obsessed with them after seeing their C50 appearance.
I remember Presidents' Day Weekend in 2013, our first trip to Ocean City together, I played God Only Knows on the jukebox of a watering hole called The Cork Bar as we had some day drinks on a gray, sleety day. As the weather warmed, I found myself listening to the album more. I was starting to hear what I'd been missing.
Although, even in my earliest posts on the BB forums in 2014, I still maintained that PS was slightly "overrated."
I don't recall the exact moment it clicked, but my wife and I played it in the car on our OC trips a lot. At some point between when I proposed in Sept 2014 and our marriage in Nov 2015, I accepted that Pet Sounds was not only The Beach Boys' definitive masterpiece, but one of music's all time greatest masterpieces.
In 2016, after balking at the chance ten years prior, I got to hear the album live, twice actually, in two area BW appearances.
So, there's my almost decade long journey in accepting the greatness of Pet Sounds.
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Post by jk on Aug 1, 2022 19:10:14 GMT
Couple of musico-technical anecdotes now. I wouldn't exactly call them misunderstandings -- the ear is tricked into thinking one thing when what you're hearing is another.
- After the line "Here and gone so fast" in "Here Today", I had long assumed the mysterious deep sound to be a gong, when it ultimately transpired to be a glissing trombone.
- More embarrassingly, I had always taken Tommy Morgan's iconic bass harmonica outing on "IKTAA" to be Mike blasting away on a bass or baritone sax! The thing is, there were no musically informative liner notes in those days. It was anyone's guess who was playing what, particularly when Brian was purposely assembling wholly new sounds out of unusual combinations of instruments. And one assumed everything was being played by The Beach Boys!
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 1, 2022 20:08:19 GMT
My Pet Sounds story: I was reading David Leaf's book in the summer of 1980. I had Endless Summer, Good Vibrations - Best of the Beach Boys, and a Pickwick album also titled Good Vibrations. Now I'm reading what an awesome album Pet Sounds is, so I'm trying to find a copy. Nobody has it. Fully a year later, I walk into Tower Records, and there it is, in all it's green and yellow glory, A Capitol Value - $3.99 for this album. That made the whole day worthwhile! Well, of course, Pet Sounds became a part of my life, especially during 1983 with my first girlfriend. That album was like a soundtrack to what was happening in my life that year. 10 years later, I came across a NM copy of the 70's Brother/Reprise version. No, that didn't lead to a hobby of collecting every variation. I do have the 1972 CATP/PS on cassette; my vinyl CATP is just a single album.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2022 22:23:16 GMT
November 12th 2006, the Adelphi Theatre, London. Brian's playing what's billed as his last ever UK performance of Pet Sounds, and as "God Only Knows" winds down the entire audience start singing the vocal round. So what ? So, entirely spontaneously, various parts of the auditorium each take a separate part, to the considerable amazement of all onstage. The song ends, Brian leans into his mic and says "whoa, that was great, [turning to the band] guys, play that part again, I wanna hear them sing it again". And they did... and we did. Because Brian wanted to hear just us. A highlight of my BB life.
And you know something ? We were fucking good !
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Emdeeh
Pacific Coast Highway
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Post by Emdeeh on Aug 2, 2022 0:04:26 GMT
I'm not that big a fan of Pet Sounds, but I love "God Only Knows" and "Caroline, No." I didn't like the album much when it first came out, but it's grown on me over the decades where now I like half of it. The album is well-wrought and highly influential, but the other half of it just isn't my kind of music. Which also means it's not on my top ten BB albums list. I know how much others love this album -- your mileage may vary widely, and probably will!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 2, 2022 1:01:56 GMT
I'm not that big a fan of Pet Sounds, but I love "God Only Knows" and "Caroline, No." I didn't like the album much when it first came out, but it's grown on me over the decades where now I like half of it. The album is well-wrought and highly influential, but the other half of it just isn't my kind of music. Which also means it's not on my top ten BB albums list. I know how much others love this album -- your mileage may vary widely, and probably will! Wow, that's a surprising take. I can't say I agree, but I always love independent thinking.
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