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Post by carllove on Dec 21, 2021 14:32:38 GMT
I agree about two of those songs, but they're both unreleased/unfinished! That's half my point.
I do think women tend to enjoy Dennis's music more, and I think it's for the pretty obvious reason of his sex appeal. And I've always gotten the impression from straight guys who like it that it's at least partly an "I wish I were him because the women love him!" thing. Seriously, I have wondered many times how his music would have been received had Mike's hairline and personality combined with Carl's physique.
Funny thing is that I find Carl much more attractive than Dennis! Even with the Dad bod! Dennis loved the ladies and I like the way he writes about them and to them. That is very appealing. I feel alot of pain in his voice, and I like that as well. Carl is the man you marry, Dennis is the man you hole up in a motel room with for a week and never see again!
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2021 14:38:33 GMT
Kapitan - How can you not love Dennis after Feel Flows? If anything - so much wasted potential! I don't dislike Dennis, either. And I definitely enjoyed a lot of the stuff finally released on Feel Flows. But that also highlights one of the issues I have with him: it's not finished! Dennis had some great ideas that died on the vine because he didn't see them through to the end.
The other issue I have is that a lot of his material was too samey for me, the same kinds of slow moving, melodramatic ballads without much in the way of rhythmic drive or melodic/harmonic motion. It's just too often too one-dimensional for me, and the emotional aspect that some feel from it, I don't feel.
I respect your opinions as to why you're not the biggest fan of Dennis Wilson's music, but I always have to disagree with your point about the "sameness" of his music. I just don't hear THAT. I'll grant you that Dennis did record several, slow-moving, melodramatic ballads, but even with those, I hear them as being distinctive, not "samey".
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Post by kds on Dec 21, 2021 15:45:28 GMT
I think by the end of the 70s, some of Dennis's songs tend to feel a bit samey. That's why I actually think they work better on Beach Boys albums as opposed to Dennis solo album(s).
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2021 15:52:43 GMT
On Pacific Ocean Blue, I consider the ballads/slow songs as "Farewell My Friend", "Moonshine", "Thoughts Of You", "End Of The Show", and a large part of "Time". And, to me, they are all different. Significantly different. That's one of the biggest reasons why I'm such a big fan of that album.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 21, 2021 15:58:56 GMT
On the single in question, one thing that bothers me somewhat is the roster of musicians: Carl Wilson is the only Beach Boy represented instrumentally, and one of two (along with Bruce) represented vocally.
Of course the group somewhat famously used a lot of outside musicians, particularly instrumentally. But often that was for horns, winds, strings, or for some of the complex compositions. This is a straightforward country-rock song, yet they needed an outside drummer, percussionist, bassist, pianist, and three guitarists?
And vocally, along with Carl and Bruce, we get harmonies from ... Terry Melcher, Curt Boettcher, and Jon Joyce.
The greatest vocal pop-rock band in history is mostly absent from a song they chose to showcase as a single. I think that lends itself to the relative anonymity/blandness of the song. Once Carl's voice is removed, it could be anyone.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 21, 2021 16:31:37 GMT
On the single in question, one thing that bothers me somewhat is the roster of musicians: Carl Wilson is the only Beach Boy represented instrumentally, and one of two (along with Bruce) represented vocally.
Of course the group somewhat famously used a lot of outside musicians, particularly instrumentally. But often that was for horns, winds, strings, or for some of the complex compositions. This is a straightforward country-rock song, yet they needed an outside drummer, percussionist, bassist, pianist, and three guitarists?
And vocally, along with Carl and Bruce, we get harmonies from ... Terry Melcher, Curt Boettcher, and Jon Joyce.
The greatest vocal pop-rock band in history is mostly absent from a song they chose to showcase as a single. I think that lends itself to the relative anonymity/blandness of the song. Once Carl's voice is removed, it could be anyone.
Yeah, specifically with the recordings/sessions, it isn't talked about that much, but after 15 Big Ones the group really splintered. Fans talk about 20/20 and to a lesser extent the early 70's albums as basically being a collection of solo tracks grouped together to form an album, but L.A. (Light Album) and Keepin' The Summer Alive certainly followed that pattern to some extent.
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Post by carllove on Dec 21, 2021 16:40:12 GMT
On the single in question, one thing that bothers me somewhat is the roster of musicians: Carl Wilson is the only Beach Boy represented instrumentally, and one of two (along with Bruce) represented vocally.
Of course the group somewhat famously used a lot of outside musicians, particularly instrumentally. But often that was for horns, winds, strings, or for some of the complex compositions. This is a straightforward country-rock song, yet they needed an outside drummer, percussionist, bassist, pianist, and three guitarists?
And vocally, along with Carl and Bruce, we get harmonies from ... Terry Melcher, Curt Boettcher, and Jon Joyce.
The greatest vocal pop-rock band in history is mostly absent from a song they chose to showcase as a single. I think that lends itself to the relative anonymity/blandness of the song. Once Carl's voice is removed, it could be anyone.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Dec 22, 2021 14:56:16 GMT
Early on in my fandom, I never touched these songs. Apathy more than anything. They've slowly grown on me over the years and I've grown to really like Livin' With a Heartache. It's something different than what they usually do and the slow verse/fast chorus works really well. Of course Carl put down a great vocal. Sanata Ana Winds has also grown on me, but the spoken word bit is annoying after the first few listens and whatever vocal effect they used was unnecessary. That said, this was a great choice for a Beach boys single in 1980 and deserved a better fate. 8/10.
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Post by kds on Dec 22, 2021 17:03:07 GMT
I like that Al has resurrected Santa Ana Winds for his Storytellers shows.
Songs like that were actually more of what I had in mind when I heard Al was doing a tour playing very intimate venues.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 23, 2021 4:36:12 GMT
I think that's pretty rare. Sang is one thing, and would get more agreement. Wrote? Honestly I think he was a pretty mediocre writer, with some highs and some lows. Even though I'm not much of a Dennis fan, I think Carl's writing is by far the worst of the three Wilson brothers. Especially by this era of his solo work, I think a lot what he wrote could've been by anyone. Kapitan - How can you not love Dennis after Feel Flows? If anything - so much wasted potential! Again, it's personal taste, personal opinion. I get that I am the only one on this board that loves Carl's songwriting; doesn't change a thing for me. I only wish there was more of it. Dennis, on the other hand, came up with a handful of songs I love - Forever, Slip on Through, Cuddle Up, River Song, Baby Blue; and a bunch of other songs that have me wondering what all the fuss is about.
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Post by lonelysummer on Dec 23, 2021 4:41:29 GMT
At the risk of generalizing, I also think there's a certain affection for Dennis's music because he passed at a relatively young age. There's a certain romanticism surrounding guys that died young. That, I think, is one of the reasons Badfinger fans always single out Pete Ham - dead by suicide at age 27. Not saying Ham wasn't talented, but the group was never presented as "Pete Ham and his backup band"; yet to read a lot of the stuff written about him in recent years, you'd think that's how it was. People love the story of a talented young musician, gifted with great songwriting abilities, and emotionally tortured and reckless and depressive.
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Post by Kapitan on Dec 27, 2021 12:29:25 GMT
Eight voters rated "Livin With a Heartache" backed with "Santa Ana Winds" an average of 6.4, with individual votes ranging from as low as 4 to as high as 9.
I'll update the ratings thread and we will proceed shortly.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Dec 27, 2021 12:57:05 GMT
Eight voters rated "Livin With a Heartache" backed with "Santa Ana Winds" an average of 6.4, with individual votes ranging from as low as 4 to as high as 9.
I'll update the ratings thread and we will proceed shortly.
Too low a rating for two of the better songs on the Keepin' The Summer Alive album...IMO of course. I was hoping it would at least hit 7.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 1, 2022 20:24:09 GMT
First, I want to say that I'm sorry I missed such enjoyable discussion this week! Eight voters rated "Livin With a Heartache" backed with "Santa Ana Winds" an average of 6.4, with individual votes ranging from as low as 4 to as high as 9. I'll update the ratings thread and we will proceed shortly.
Too low a rating for two of the better songs on the Keepin' The Summer Alive album...IMO of course. I was hoping it would at least hit 7. It wouldn't have made much of a difference but with my '8' the average would have increased from 6.4 to 6.6. That moves it into 'rounding up' territory, at least. Briefly I just want to say that I've always liked both of these songs. I think Carl sings "Heartache" great, and I really enjoy the background vocals and the overall vibe of the track. Where songs like "Full Sail" can get pretty sleepy, I don't feel that way with this one. Very pleasant and enjoyable. And as bland as some might regard it, I think it's unlike any other Beach Boys track. As for "Santa Ana Winds", while I don't love the brief spoken part, I don't really mind it either. I also don't mind the strings. I think the arrangement works, overall. I love the acoustic guitar and harmonica (which reminds me of the theme to 'Rockford Files'!). I LOVE the 'round' of vocals at the end. That's one of the main things I'm here for - when it comes to the Beach Boys. The only thing bringing this down is Mike's horrifically nasal vocal on a few lines. How do you leave that in? How could Mike want anyone to hear that? It's mindboggling, and frustrating.
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Post by B.E. on Jan 1, 2022 20:44:38 GMT
This shoulda/coulda been a strong single. There's a lot of music here and two lead vocals by the Beach Boys' best singers at the time. It wasn't necessarily Beach Boys-sounding music, which is ironic because both of these songs, which don't really sound like "summer", are released as a single for an album called Keepin' The Summer Alive. However, this single was a fine representation of a more mature Beach Boys "sound" entering a new decade. I guess it didn't matter either way as very few people heard it. That must've been frustrating for the guys because these were two good songs.
I've been thinking about this. Here's the chronology: March 11th - "Goin' On"/"Endless Harmony" March 24th - Keepin' The Summer AliveMay 20th - "Livin' With A Heartache"/"Santa Ana Winds" Assuming the album is released the same day and there's to be one single released in advance I propose one of two alternate courses. 1) two singles approach: March 11th - "Goin' On"/"Livin' With A Heartache" March 24th - Keepin' The Summer Alive
May 20th - "Keepin' The Summer Alive"/"School Days" 2) three singles approach: March 11th - "Goin' On"/"Endless Harmony" March 24th - Keepin The Summer AliveApril 18th - "Livin' With A Heartache"/"Santa Ana Winds" May 20th - "Keepin' The Summer Alive"/"School Days" I considered swapping "Endless Harmony" for "Oh Darlin'" but I really think the vocals of the former could/should've enticed people to check out the album. I also considered an alternate B-side to "Keepin' The Summer Alive", which would have been released just in time for summer! I considered "Some of Your Love" and "Goin' To the Beach", but the former doesn't have as strong of a lead vocal nor the song recognition of "School Days" and the latter just wasn't finished (they should have held onto to it for the summer of 1981, I think).
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