|
Post by kds on Oct 23, 2019 15:57:44 GMT
Probably a lot like it did with Vinnie! Probably. I see something like the scene from the movie Rock Star, when Mark Wahlburg is still in the tribute band and Timothy Olympht's character adds some extra shred to one of the Steel Dragon songs, and Wahlburg screams "that's not how the song goes."
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 23, 2019 16:54:11 GMT
Wow, they went through a lot to find the right replacement for Ace, and I guess none of them turned out to be the right fit until Tommy Thayer, unless you consider Bruce Kulick a success.
I just did some quick reading on Bob Kulick. He had a long-term relationship with actress, Stella Stevens, who starred in The Nutty Professor with Jerry Lewis and has a son, actor Andrew Stevens. Sadly, Stella Stevens has Alzheimer's Disease and is currently in a care facility where Bob continues to visit her. I thought I'd post a few photos below:
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 24, 2019 1:03:04 GMT
Wow, they went through a lot to find the right replacement for Ace, and I guess none of them turned out to be the right fit until Tommy Thayer, unless you consider Bruce Kulick a success. I'd say Bruce Kulick was a relative success: he was with the band for a solid decade of original and often decent-selling material. Thayer, on the other hand, has been primarily appearing in the character of Ace Frehley and on only two studio albums. Of course we'll get to all that. Probably quickly, as unfortunately the music trends downward and the stories become less interesting as time goes on.
As for Bob Kulick, first of all, for some reason I thought he was gay. Looking at Ms. Stevens, that no longer seems correct. She was quite the bombshell! (I've got no idea why I had that in mind about Bob.)
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 24, 2019 21:40:48 GMT
KISS Lick It Up (1983)Vinnie Vincent is here. Really here, from the opening riff of the Paul Stanley co-write leadoff track “Exciter” to the thunderous Gene Simmons co-written finale of “And on the 8th Day.”The band, at long last, is clearly defined again. Vincent was introduced as KISS’s new guitarist on the Creatures of the Night tour as the Egyptian in ankh makeup but unmasked here, co-wrote eight of ten songs, and helped raise the group back into the consciousness of America’s and the world’s hard rock and heavy metal fans. Vincent wasn’t solely responsible for the resurgence. Both Simmons and Stanley seem recommitted to the success of the band, each bringing half of the songs to the album with neither veering far from his newly codified path: there was smut to go around, but Stanley’s would reek of seduction while Simmons’s would crush opposition. Vincent was on board to reinvigorate both in a commercial but heavy style appropriate for the times. Simmons in particular rides a wave that began on Creatures with “I Love It Loud” and “War Machine.” It continues here throughout all five of his songs. It’s a shame the makeup was off, because these songs were perfect for The Demon. He shrieks his way through “Young and Wasted” (a riff whose rhythm and feel are a sped-up “Parasite”) and “Fits Like a Glove,” in particular. And his album closer, “And On the 8th Day,” yet is another in a long line of “spirit of rock and roll” anthems. Stanley continued in the vein of Creatures as well, with the album-opening “Exciter” and the title track his standouts. Interestingly, there are no outside collaborations on the album: the only four writers credited are Vincent (eight songs), Simmons (six), Stanley (five), and drummer Eric Carr (one). At least in terms of credits, the band kept it lean. In the songs themselves, things weren’t so lean: eight of ten songs topped the four-minute mark, and the other two weren’t far behind. This being KISS, it isn’t as if the time is spent on complex song structures. The songs simply repeat themselves a bit more than necessary. Surprisingly little of that excess time is spent on Vincent’s guitar solos, a near-miracle considering he famously overextended his feature solos live. Vincent’s ego was by all accounts a major reason his tenure with the band ended during the album’s tour. Twice. After the European leg of the tour, he was either fired or allowed to leave—it isn’t clear which—but was brought back in for the U.S. tour when a replacement wasn’t firmed up. However, as usual, he ignored Stanley’s cue to wrap up his extended solo and was promptly fired (or quit) again. It certainly wasn’t the quality of Vincent’s playing or writing that led to his demise. He produced exactly what the band sought: a modernization and flair. His solos throughout the album are relatively restrained to fit the band, but they’re still miles beyond what Ace Frehley could do technically. (For real jaw-droppers, listen to his Vinnie Vincent Invasion solos!) The riffs and melodies are like the metal version of Hootie and the Blowfish. (Bear with me.) They feel immediately familiar to the point that fans can’t help but wonder, “where have I heard this before?” They’re solid if not brilliant. In fact, the parts feel almost interchangeable: fit Chorus A into Song B and it works just as well more often than not. And it did work. Lick It Up reached #24 in the US and generally even higher worldwide. It went platinum by 1990. Ironically, the American tour saw disappointing sales, with some critics contending that abandoning the makeup hurt rather than boosted ticket sales. Thus the success of “heavy metal KISS” was short lived. Vincent was booted and the band was forced to engage yet another new guitarist. Simmons increasingly looked to outside projects (producing and acting), ending his brief resurgence within the band and making Stanley the de facto band leader for the rest of the decade.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 24, 2019 23:23:00 GMT
A little anachronistic interlude, the 1990 band (Simmons, Stanley, Carr, and Kulick) messing around with mostly cover tunes, including a few Beatles tunes. (I've got it set to begin a few minutes in, when there are more guys participating and Simmons is done with his initial solo Simmonsing...)
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 24, 2019 23:46:24 GMT
I was sitting on the floor of my first apartment and my high school buddy - the one I refer to a lot who I shared many album listening "sessions" with as a teenager - was visiting. We turned on MTV and the VJ announced that KISS's World Premier Video of "Lick It Up" was coming up - without their makeup! Well, we HAD to see that! By that time my KISS fandom had faded but my buddy was still hanging in there with the band. Anyway, we watched the video and then critiqued it. Honestly? The guys' faces made more of an impression than the song. I found the song a bit generic or repetitive. He bought the album, I didn't. The title track is the only song on the album that I'm familiar with. I don't know why but I thought Vinnie Vincent's tenure lasted longer. And from reading the review, there appears to be some deja vu in relation to the way they handled Ace's and Vinnie's departure.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 25, 2019 0:00:16 GMT
A little anachronistic interlude, the 1990 band (Simmons, Stanley, Carr, and Kulick) messing around with mostly cover tunes, including a few Beatles tunes. (I've got it set to begin a few minutes in, when there are more guys participating and Simmons is done with his initial solo Simmonsing...)
Anytime KISS wants to cover The Beatles - or anyone else - I'm there!
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 25, 2019 0:02:44 GMT
I was sitting on the floor of my first apartment and my high school buddy Thus begins virtually every great story!
But yeah, in my opinion, Lick It Up isn't a great album. It did well. It further publicized their newly modern, metal style. Vincent is an AMAZING guitarist, if equally annoying and confusing person. But if the goal is to burst into the mainstream, doesn't that leave you in the mainstream? KISS became important almost a decade earlier by being outside the mainstream, by being their own stream. The best of the British Invasion, glam, and their own brand of weird theater. In 1983, I think they did a really good job of proving they could be a good hard rock/heavy metal band.
And to that I'd say, congratulations on joining Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Ratt, Motley Crue, Iron Maiden, Dio, and an assortment of other bands whom you influenced...
|
|
|
Post by kds on Oct 25, 2019 18:53:49 GMT
I was sitting on the floor of my first apartment and my high school buddy Thus begins virtually every great story!
But yeah, in my opinion, Lick It Up isn't a great album. It did well. It further publicized their newly modern, metal style. Vincent is an AMAZING guitarist, if equally annoying and confusing person. But if the goal is to burst into the mainstream, doesn't that leave you in the mainstream? KISS became important almost a decade earlier by being outside the mainstream, by being their own stream. The best of the British Invasion, glam, and their own brand of weird theater. In 1983, I think they did a really good job of proving they could be a good hard rock/heavy metal band.
And to that I'd say, congratulations on joining Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Ratt, Motley Crue, Iron Maiden, Dio, and an assortment of other bands whom you influenced...
Right, I'd say after Alive II, KISS became followers rather than leaders. Disco got big, they had some disco infused songs. Heavy metal got big, we got Creatures of the Night. Glam metal got big, we got Lick It Up, Animalyze, and Crazy Nights. And of course, when Page and Plant and The Eagles made big money with reunions, who put the original group together and put the make up back on? Sorry for jumping ahead in the timeline.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 25, 2019 19:51:37 GMT
No apologies necessary: that kind of comment is worthwhile and helps with context, I think. (Plus I did something awfully similar in the Queen thread!)
But yeah, I agree. It isn't that they didn't do anything good after those first great albums; it's just that the good things they did were more imitation than inspiration.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 25, 2019 20:05:08 GMT
I need some clarification on that. It appears that, yes, there was some "bandwagon jumping" along the way, but was it really significant? I hate to bring this up on a KISS thread but did it seriously impact their legacy? OK, KISS did a disco song or two or three, but it wasn't purely disco in the sense of a Bee Gees or KC & The Sunshine Band. It was a very small minority of the catalogue. Very small. Same with the Glam Rock or Heavy Metal. They sprinkled some of that in, but they didn't really transform their sound, or if they did, again it was just a couple of tracks. I also don't look at it in an entirely negative vein. So they took a few chances or followed a few trends or might've lost some fans along the way. If they didn't do that, if they simply released Dressed To Kill every year or two, they would've been hammered for that, too. Right? Wrong?
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 25, 2019 20:11:10 GMT
Great question, and I don't think one that anyone can exactly answer. You bring up with your last thought a problem that I think every band faces at some point: damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you change, the old fans hate you for changing and abandoning them. If you don't, they hate you for not growing, for going stale.
The trick is probably that one-in-a-million instance where the band and the fans seem to be moving the same direction at the same time, organically. (Or the band convinces the fans that's what is happening as they bring them along...)
With KISS, I think it was just too obvious, too transparent, what was going on. As KDS said with his examples, the changes were always blatant. And I disagree that it was a song or two, actually. With disco, yes, it was just a couple of songs that were pure disco. But the rock songs had a different production sound, too, especially on Unmasked. Then starting with Killers I think the sound REALLY changed dramatically.
|
|
|
Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 25, 2019 20:23:53 GMT
With KISS, I think it was just too obvious, too transparent, what was going on. As KDS said with his examples, the changes were always blatant. And I disagree that it was a song or two, actually. With disco, yes, it was just a couple of songs that were pure disco. But the rock songs had a different production sound, too, especially on Unmasked. Then starting with Killers I think the sound REALLY changed dramatically. And I'll certainly defer to you guys on that. I never heard the entire albums, just these recent isolated tracks highlighted in this thread. I hear them and think, "Yeah, they're a little...different", but in the end, they still sound like good old KISS to me.
|
|
|
Post by Kapitan on Oct 25, 2019 20:43:19 GMT
You clearly didn't listen to "Just a Boy!"
|
|
|
Post by kds on Oct 26, 2019 0:53:23 GMT
Sheriff, to answer your question, KISS's legacy wasn't really affected in the long term. Interest in them may have waned a bit as the 80s wore on, but they proved there was a demand for their classic era when they reunited in the mid 90s. And, dare I say, replacement players dressed as originals, KISS caskets, and Gene consistently putting his foot in his mouth have not really harmed that legacy.
|
|