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Post by B.E. on Sept 23, 2021 0:39:39 GMT
Here is the CD album cover both with and without text. I think it's really cool that both are available. I'd love to frame certain Beach Boys album covers without text (like my avatar or, especially, the back cover of Friends). But, I've never been able to find them. (It took me a long enough time to photoshop my avatar that I'll never change it!) umusic.app.box.com/s/eveo65r0f4nggewuvhhxd1vvb3a5waxd
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Post by B.E. on Sept 23, 2021 2:50:04 GMT
I assumed this is all Melinda's doing Naturally. Now THAT - whose (spelling?) idea was the project in the first place - ranks pretty high on my list of concerns with Brian's work. History will show, I think, that Brian was always more successful when he was calling the shots as far as what the group/he was attempting in the first place. When the project was his idea, he seemed to be more enthusiastic and productive. It's when he was "just going along" was when the results were less than satisfying. And, of course, that's also when the conspiracy theories about Brian's degree of input and participation, or lack of, start to surface. And that's common sense and to be expected. It's part of the equation. More interest/motivation means more input means more Brian. And vice versa. Oh, and BTW, I have no idea whose idea this album was/is. I completely agree with you here: "More interest/motivation means more input means more Brian. And vice versa." But I think the cause of Brian's lack of interest/motivation (going back nearly 55 years now) is his mental health issues, particularly depression. For this reason, no, I don't find the more cynical or conspiratorial stuff particularly fair or reasonable. Another issue is we just don't know whose ideas were whose in most cases. But, I am curious which projects you'd include in the "always more successful when calling the shots" category vs. "just going along".
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 23, 2021 11:29:53 GMT
I assumed this is all Melinda's doing Naturally. Now THAT - whose (spelling?) idea was the project in the first place - ranks pretty high on my list of concerns with Brian's work. History will show, I think, that Brian was always more successful when he was calling the shots as far as what the group/he was attempting in the first place. When the project was his idea, he seemed to be more enthusiastic and productive. It's when he was "just going along" was when the results were less than satisfying. And, of course, that's also when the conspiracy theories about Brian's degree of input and participation, or lack of, start to surface. And that's common sense and to be expected. It's part of the equation. More interest/motivation means more input means more Brian. And vice versa. Oh, and BTW, I have no idea whose idea this album was/is. I completely agree with you here: "More interest/motivation means more input means more Brian. And vice versa." But I think the cause of Brian's lack of interest/motivation (going back nearly 55 years now) is his mental health issues, particularly depression. For this reason, no, I don't find the more cynical or conspiratorial stuff particularly fair or reasonable. Another issue is we just don't know whose ideas were whose in most cases. But, I am curious which projects you'd include in the "always more successful when calling the shots" category vs. "just going along". Regarding the unfair or unreasonable cynical and conspiratorial stuff, yes, due to Brian's mental health issues, a certain understanding or empathy/sympathy or even refraining from criticism at all has to be a consideration. However, I also think that when a musician makes the decision to be a commercial artist, you know, releasing product for a fee (or even if it was free!), well, then I think it's...fair...to offer an opinion or a critique of that work, regardless of the artist's health concerns.
Which projects would I include in the Brian Wilson "calling the shots" category?
- Surfer Girl - Little Deuce Coupe - Shut Down Vol. 2 - All Summer Long - The Beach Boys' Christmas Album - Today! - Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) - The Beach Boys Party - Pet Sounds - The SMiLE Sessions
- Smiley Smile - Wild Honey - Friends - The Beach Boys Love You - Adult Child
- Sweet Insanity - some of the 1990's songwriting that appeared on Imagination and That's Why God Made The Radio and No Pier Pressure
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 23, 2021 14:14:18 GMT
FYI, on the most recent Beach Boys Talk episode, David Beard discussed this album a little bit. You'll hear that segment near the end of Beard's appearance, right around 1 hour 9 minutes or something. It's just a few minutes' worth of discussion, but it is interesting.
Also, beachboystalk (Greg) chimed in with a nice little bit of reality for some fans who are overly critical about post-production "doctoring": get over it, as everything (more or less by everybody) released in the past several decades is touched up in some ways. I know that conversation comes and goes, whether it's the dreaded A-word that I don't even want to raise, or comping takes (a half-century old process...), or editing things together (even older), or generous effects, overdubbing, etc. The idea that artists sit in a room with a mic and record start to finish is just not how most recorded music works. Not even in jazz or classical, for the most part, to say nothing of rock and roll.
That said, they then get into some "Brian is freely giving us a gift with nothing in it for him" talk. I don't like that stuff. It's as if it's a religious thing, with Brian in some savior role. He's selling the album.
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Post by kds on Sept 23, 2021 14:18:28 GMT
FYI, on the most recent Beach Boys Talk episode, David Beard discussed this album a little bit. You'll hear that segment near the end of Beard's appearance, right around 1 hour 9 minutes or something. It's just a few minutes' worth of discussion, but it is interesting.
Also, beachboystalk (Greg) chimed in with a nice little bit of reality for some fans who are overly critical about post-production "doctoring": get over it, as everything (more or less by everybody) released in the past several decades is touched up in some ways. I know that conversation comes and goes, whether it's the dreaded A-word that I don't even want to raise, or comping takes (a half-century old process...), or editing things together (even older), or generous effects, overdubbing, etc. The idea that artists sit in a room with a mic and record start to finish is just not how most recorded music works. Not even in jazz or classical, for the most part, to say nothing of rock and roll.
That said, they then get into some "Brian is freely giving us a gift with nothing in it for him" talk. I don't like that stuff. It's as if it's a religious thing, with Brian in some savior role. He's selling the album.
I agree. To me, that kind of talk goes a little past fandom and into hero worship. And, that's just weird to me.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 1, 2021 11:25:01 GMT
...another one from the album :
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 1, 2021 12:08:07 GMT
I enjoyed that one. Such a great song, it's cool hearing the various elements more clearly on just piano, not blurred and muddied together in a wash of instruments, voices and reverb. Obviously it doesn't actually compete with the "real" version, but it's a nice alternative to shine a different light on it.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 22, 2021 22:28:24 GMT
Whoa, I kinda LOVE this!
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 3:29:23 GMT
Naturally. I completely agree with you here: "More interest/motivation means more input means more Brian. And vice versa." But I think the cause of Brian's lack of interest/motivation (going back nearly 55 years now) is his mental health issues, particularly depression. For this reason, no, I don't find the more cynical or conspiratorial stuff particularly fair or reasonable. Another issue is we just don't know whose ideas were whose in most cases. But, I am curious which projects you'd include in the "always more successful when calling the shots" category vs. "just going along". Regarding the unfair or unreasonable cynical and conspiratorial stuff, yes, due to Brian's mental health issues, a certain understanding or empathy/sympathy or even refraining from criticism at all has to be a consideration. However, I also think that when a musician makes the decision to be a commercial artist, you know, releasing product for a fee (or even if it was free!), well, then I think it's...fair...to offer an opinion or a critique of that work, regardless of the artist's health concerns.
Which projects would I include in the Brian Wilson "calling the shots" category?
- Surfer Girl - Little Deuce Coupe - Shut Down Vol. 2 - All Summer Long - The Beach Boys' Christmas Album - Today! - Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) - The Beach Boys Party - Pet Sounds - The SMiLE Sessions
- Smiley Smile - Wild Honey - Friends - The Beach Boys Love You - Adult Child
- Sweet Insanity - some of the 1990's songwriting that appeared on Imagination and That's Why God Made The Radio and No Pier Pressure
I would most definitely add Surfin’ Safari, Surfin’ USA, BW88, that Lucky old Sun and reimagines Gershwin to that list
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 5:53:08 GMT
Just listened to don't worry baby and it has the same weird underwater feeling. Does anyone got the 411 on exactly how this was produced and engineered and why it sounds so muddy and muted.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 12, 2021 14:52:03 GMT
I think it's just the choice of piano, reverb, etc. It's certainly a soft sound, and awash in reverb. My guess is that the idea was it lends itself to a more easy listening experience than sharper, brighter sounds.
(It probably also helps in blending the overdubbed parts together somewhat into one cohesive block of music than would be the case without the reverb and with sharper sounds. That is very much just my guess.)
I don't mind it. I won't say I love it, either. But it's pleasant. For those who haven't yet heard the song in question, here it is:
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Post by bellesofparisstan on Nov 12, 2021 15:39:05 GMT
Yeah, it sounds like the piano was put through some sort of high-pass filter and obviously hit with a tidal wave of reverb. Not entirely sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, it does make the “easy listening/meditation sounds” feel of the album way more prominent, and it also helps cover up any mistakes that Brian could have made. Also makes it a lot easier to just have on in the background. On the other hand, it makes the entire album sound like it’s being played in the middle of an empty indoor water park.
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Post by Kapitan on Nov 12, 2021 16:01:35 GMT
One reason it might seem jarring (though that's a funny word for me to use, since "jarring" and reverb-drenched easy listening don't fit well together ... maybe "surprising") is that it's so different from most piano sounds found on Beach Boys records. Brian so often had an upright (sometimes tack) piano, somewhat trebly, cutting through mixes. This is almost the opposite of that.
Of course this is an instrumental piano album intended as easy listening reinvention, so it makes sense that it is going to sound different than the pianos that are part of full-band arrangements beneath vocals. But it is different.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 17:05:30 GMT
I went to a recital by Richard Carpenter a couple of weeks ago on the Steinway as part of a Steinway series of promoting artist for their pianos. And one of his collaborators and press people told me, because they knew I knew a little bit about the Beach Boys, that Richard was interested in hearing about Brian's new piano album. I told them basically what we have been discussing here, and I think their idea or their intention was to make sure that the new album that Richard does is sounding really great on his Steinway. Just listening to that piano live in comparison to say what we're hearing from Brian here is like the difference between night and day.
Again I don't mean to attribute any quotations to the Richard Carpenter people and producers other than just that Richard was interested in what Brian was doing and was working on something similar. I don't know if it's finished being recorded but I think it comes out in December, and I'm not really sure. I guess the bottom line is that it would be interesting to compare those two aging piano players albums side by side.
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Post by B.E. on Nov 13, 2021 2:25:01 GMT
Will C (saltymarshmallow) at EH is someone whose opinion I respect and accept without question: "From someone with an inside word: "'I have it on good authority that Brian played on every track . It was recorded using one of those grand pianos that's midi capable to be able to capture his performance but it was done with overdubs and basically speaking co-produced by Darian. ... My understanding is that it's tough to count him off and nail a take now at his age, but they noted that he'd noodle around and after a bit he’s just start diving in and playing, so they were trying to figure out a way where they could let him do that and capture it all so that everything he played was recorded in some form.' "So, there you go." Reposting for @theprofessor . I believe much of the reason for the difference in sound from what you'd expect from a live grand piano performance is due to how it was recording. While it might not be the best possible sound (I agree, it's not), I think it's worth noting again that it was apparently done this way in order to arrive at a finished product of 100% solo performances by Brian of entire songs. That said, I'm sure there are other factors, too. I imagine they were also just simply going for the "easy listening" sound (and mastered it accordingly, as others have mentioned).
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