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Post by Kapitan on Aug 8, 2021 15:29:55 GMT
For the 2nd single in a row I've got to go against the grain - this is a 10!!! I'm not sure how "against the grain" that is. You're one of three (so far) 10s, which is 1/4 of voters at 10. And while the most common rating so far is an 8, the lowest is just a 7, and there's only one of those. An 8 is a pretty damn high rating, I'd say, and 11 of 12 votes are 8 or above.
I think you're a bit more full-throated in your praise, more vocal and confident in going along with the grain, as opposed to going against it!
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Post by B.E. on Aug 8, 2021 15:45:02 GMT
The idea that bringing in Jack and co. would help them in the "cool" department is laughable when listening to "Slip On Through". They never matched that. But in hindsight would you agree that Jack R did actually help them in the cool dept., if not objectively (is there an objective "cool"?) then at least in terms of image? At least as I understand it, he's the one that got them the cooler shows, he helped promote longer shows with more of their current material. And Surf's Up, CATP and Holland all charted higher in the US than did any of the three preceding studio albums (Friends, 20/20 and Sunflower). Though sales =/= "cool," I understand. As for singles, I will say that the Rieley era was basically a flop. Sure. I was commenting more directly on the music, in particular the studio output and singles (and of course subjectively insofar as what I consider "cool"), but, yes, Jack and co. seemed to have helped their image and their reputation as a live group. He also increased the lyrical drug references. Beyond that, though, I maintain that they already had 'it'. What were the "coolest" singles of the Rieley era? "Surf's Up"? "Til I Die"? Maybe "Marcella"? All BW songs written in the '60s. "Long Promised Road"? I don't know about that. Hmm, I was just reminded that "Feel Flows" wasn't released as a single. That's slightly surprising. Anyway, point is that there's an argument to be made, I think, that the music isn't any "cooler" (even if we attempt to be as objective as possible about it) than some of the stuff they were doing on 20/20 and Sunflower, or Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, or Pet Sounds and Smile, etc. If we think about what is generally considered "cool" for that era: Dennis is it, for better or worse. And he was already there, and doing it, and arguably peaking, in 1970, and being supported by the group (until things fell apart in that regard during the Rieley era and beyond).
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Post by B.E. on Aug 8, 2021 15:48:45 GMT
For the 2nd single in a row I've got to go against the grain - this is a 10!!! I'm not sure how "against the grain" that is. You're one of three (so far) 10s, which is 1/4 of voters at 10. And while the most common rating so far is an 8, the lowest is just a 7, and there's only one of those. An 8 is a pretty damn high rating, I'd say, and 11 of 12 votes are 8 or above.
I think you're a bit more full-throated in your praise, more vocal and confident in going along with the grain, as opposed to going against it!
Vote-wise, but every reply I read knocked "Slip On Through" down a peg or two and more-or-less demanded that it be demoted to the B-side. That's where I felt I was going against the grain. Point taken, though. Hey, I'm thrilled to be full of praise today after being a bit of a downer on the last single.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 8, 2021 15:51:48 GMT
But in hindsight would you agree that Jack R did actually help them in the cool dept., if not objectively (is there an objective "cool"?) then at least in terms of image? At least as I understand it, he's the one that got them the cooler shows, he helped promote longer shows with more of their current material. And Surf's Up, CATP and Holland all charted higher in the US than did any of the three preceding studio albums (Friends, 20/20 and Sunflower). Though sales =/= "cool," I understand. As for singles, I will say that the Rieley era was basically a flop. Sure. I was commenting more directly on the music, in particular the studio output and singles (and of course subjectively insofar as what I consider "cool"), but, yes, Jack and co. seemed to have helped their image and their reputation as a live group. He also increased the lyrical drug references. Beyond that, though, I maintain that they already had 'it'. What were the "coolest" singles of the Rieley era? "Surf's Up"? "Til I Die"? Maybe "Marcella"? All BW songs written in the '60s. "Long Promised Road"? I don't know about that. Hmm, I was just reminded that "Feel Flows" wasn't released as a single. That's slightly surprising. Anyway, point is that there's an argument to be made, I think, that the music isn't any "cooler" (even if we attempt to be as objective as possible about it) than some of the stuff they were doing on 20/20 and Sunflower, or Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, or Pet Sounds and Smile, etc. If we think about what is generally consider "cool" for that era: Dennis is it, for better or worse. And he was already there, and doing it, and arguably peaking, in 1970, and being supported by the group (until things fell apart in that regard during the Rieley era and beyond). Yes, for the record, I actually don't see a real boost in the cool factor. Hell, I don't even like "cool"! I think Rieley certainly wanted to make them edgier, more current, more countercultural. As you mentioned, the drug references are an example. Frankly I find that kind of effort in general pretty lame! I think the coolest thing a band can do is whatever they want to do (even if I think it's really uncool).
Unfortunately in this instance--though pretty common for this band--"what they wanted to do" was always at least a couple of different, often exactly opposite, things.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 8, 2021 20:11:23 GMT
Fact is, I've only ever heard it as an album track, years after the 45 was released (no recollection of that at all). Same holds for "SOT". I get that literally--that you were exposed to it as an album track instead of as a single--but I still don't really get it figuratively. (None of this is judging, by the way. I'm just contrasting our experiences from my perspective.) By that same logic, I couldn't "hear as a single" any Beach Boys songs except "Kokomo," "Wipeout," "That's Why God Made the Radio," and "Isn't It Time." I think those are the only Beach Boys singles I ever heard as singles at the time they were released. The vast majority were from before I was born or conscious, and then I just never heard most of them in my lifetime, with most of them having been relative flops and me not being a fan through much of that time.
Yet I can hear "I Get Around" and think it's an obvious single. I just mean you can often hear what makes a single, what makes a song catch hold with people. Energy, a hook, a melody, a singalong chorus, a riff, a clever lyrical maneuver...a single! When I say I can hear the single, I could be talking about a non-single or a single, but just a song with the stuff of a single. I think "This Whole World" easily fits that mold ... and it was a (B-side) single, besides, whether I heard it in 1970 or not! (The answer, of course, me being -6 years old at the time, is not.)
Does that make sense?
Was "Isn't it Time" actually a single? All I'm aware of is the EP with the Pee Chee cover. Need to pull that thing out and play it again. Not that I need to hear Surfin' Safari and 409 again. I've already forgotten what the 4th track was.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 9, 2021 11:33:31 GMT
Twelve voters rated "Slip on Through" b/w "This Whole World" an average of 8.7.
I will update the ratings thread, and our next single will be up shortly. Thank you for the participation.
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