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Post by Kapitan on Oct 10, 2021 15:20:18 GMT
Here’s one in the studio (marred by very loud sound effects in the background, or really, the foreground). A three-parter, he talks about making the movies, then about his solo career in the early ‘70s (touching on most if not all of the albums a little), McCartney’s “Coming Up,” and keeping up on his career in general.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 10, 2021 15:41:17 GMT
I’ll post a handful of contemporaneous interviews as I get through them. (I know I’ve listened to some before, too.) Here is one with Lisa Robinson from about two months before the album was released. John speaks a lot about his time off. The album wasn’t even quite finished yet, much less released, so they do not get into it, though they do talk about his experience getting back into writing and recording music. It concludes with an interesting bit of speculation about his reputation at the time versus what it might have been had he died in 1975 (rather than just retired). I don't remember this one! What an interesting, captivating (and flawed) guy. And while I don't doubt he's projecting an image (i.e. telling the story, framing his comeback, the way he'd like), I'd wager at least 95% of what he's saying is true/honest stuff, and he ends up revealing more about himself than most others would. For instance, the bit about all these new songs having come to him easily/freely, that's not true, but it fits the narrative. But, then he talks about his state of mind during "the lost weekend" (e.g. walking out in front of moving cars (!)) and how he'd always been like that (i.e. destructive/unwell) but perhaps just not to that extreme. Admitting that he always had the Beatles and Brian Epstein watching out for him. Admitting that he's too self involved to call anyone not related to him or a very old friend. Of course, he could just be saying that to defend himself from Mick's accusation, but it rings true to me (pun intended ). He also, in the midst of talking up his family life and relationship with Sean, admitted to hurting Sean with some off-the-cuff remarks at the studio, and basically just blaming Sean for being too sensitive (at 4-5 years old). What I'm getting at is I appreciate that while, yes, John and Yoko were projecting an image (partially that of domestic bliss --although, did the critics listen to the album...every song?), John, especially, was still a very honest/revealing interviewee and hardly paints himself in the best possible light (not by a long shot).
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Post by B.E. on Oct 10, 2021 17:37:40 GMT
If I were rating this album based only on John's songs, I'd give it a 10 without a second thought. To me, John not only returned, but returned to his prime. Miraculously, his voice was still intact. I know it took some work for him to get it right, but he did. "Dear Yoko" is the only track where it sounds like his voice has aged a bit, but really you could pinpoint a track here or there throughout his career where he wasn't in top form (and I also think he just opted to sing it that way (as opposed to singing it with a harder edge). Anyway, like I was saying, I think John's material here is on the same level as Plastic Ono Band and Imagine and THE BEATLES. Honestly, if I were to imagine the Beatles continuing, and maintaining the same quality of output through 1980 that they had in the 60s, then "(Just Like) Starting Over", "Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)", "Watching The Wheels", and "Woman" are what I'd imagine (and I'm talking best case scenario). I find this record, and this material, truly special. I don't just mean these are Beatles-worthy songs, no, these recordings are! I don't even think Paul, George, and Ringo would had improved them. And "I'm Losing You" is right there, too, at like a 9.5. Classic John, with a great, emotive vocal. "Cleanup Time" and "Dear Yoko", especially the former, are perfectly suitable album tracks. I enjoy them.
Yoko's stuff? It's nearly all listenable. The band is good throughout the album, as is the production. And, if you notice, Yoko's songs are quite short, and her performances are quite restrained and on-key. I actually kinda like some it. That said, I typically don't listen to this album as a whole. I just listen to the individual John songs when I'm in the mood for 'em.
8
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Post by B.E. on Oct 10, 2021 17:45:48 GMT
I'm sure I've posted this before, but...
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Post by jk on Oct 10, 2021 19:25:50 GMT
"Woman" is one of the greatest love songs ever recorded and an all-time favourite of mine:
They played "Beautiful Boy" on Dutch radio the evening John was murdered. My son was two at the time and I had to leave the room. I haven't played it since.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 10, 2021 20:18:21 GMT
This is gonna be a difficult album to rate; if it was a solo John album, I'd rate it very highly, but with half of the songs being Yoko's, that affects my rating. Not that I hate Yoko. I've read so much about her, pro and con, that I don't see her as totally bad or completely good. And this applies to her music as well. On the plus side, she seemed to have moved past the screaming "i-yi-yi" stuff, and is producing more conventional songs here. I can't get around my desire to have a full album of John - especially when he is writing strong material as he did here. If I have a gripe about the John side of the album, it's that it might be a just a little too slick. I loved hearing his demos of these songs (John's demos being crude recordings on a cassette boom box - obviously sound quality is not top of my list! They're just John with an acoustic guitar and sometimes a drum machine in the background; but those demos full of feeling - and sometimes you lose that feeling when you spend hours, days, months working in a proper studio). I don't know why we assume John's voice would deteriorate in the 5 years away; I feel like we're constantly looking for signs of age or weakness once we get past the glorious 20's with these guys. John sounds great to me, I don't hear any deterioration at all. It's not like he went 5 years without singing. As we now know, he was writing and singing all through those years away. Jumping ahead, I actually like Milk and Honey better than Double Fantasy.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Oct 11, 2021 12:35:40 GMT
I remember reading and hearing about a new John Lennon album in late 1980. It made me happy. The music world was a better place with John Lennon in it. I wasn't a big fan of John's solo work, though. Other than a few selected album tracks, I was only familiar with his singles. Yet, I was looking forward to Double Fantasy.
I feel similar to B.E. and lonelysummer. I was never a fan of Yoko's music either, and, honestly, I was disappointed that she was represented so significantly on John's first album in five years. I thought, "After five years, couldn't we get an ENTIRE album of new John Lennon songs?" Yes, I was one of those fans who didn't...celebrate...the relationship of a Beatle. I got it yet I didn't get it. Or, I didn't want to accept it. More silly love songs? I could see a song or two, but an entire album?
I think Double Fantasy is a good album. I liked the singles; it was nice to hear John on the radio again. Yes, John's voice held up just fine; he could still sound emotional when he had to. Most of John's songs are very good, and almost a half dozen of them are still popular and still hold up. You can't say that about all of John's solo albums. "(Just Like) Starting Over" is good. "Woman" is very good. "Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)" is touching. "I'm Losing You" sounds like the old Lennon to me. And, "Watching The Wheels" got to me more after John's death; I'm not sure why, it's probably the lyrics.
Like I said, I'm not a fan of Yoko's music, though I haven't heard a lot of it. Again, I wish the album was all John's songs. I was a little disappointed that Double Fantasy didn't rock more. I guess I was one of those fans that John resented somewhat. I could hear him saying to me, "Hey, I'm not THAT John anymore. I'm not the "Working Class Hero" John anymore. I'm not John The Beatle anymore." The album is slick, more slick than raw, as intended. No Spector. No Beatles. Not a lot of rock & roll.
Double Fantasy is a tough album to rate. Sentimentality is taking over again, but as I mentioned above, there are five or six songs that still hold up, that I still enjoy. I'm going with 7. That's a good rating isn't it?
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 11, 2021 15:44:10 GMT
Been having a blast listening to this week's album. So disappointing that this was more or less the end of Lennon's output. (I mean, obviously there was more, but not with him at the helm.) It's one of my favorites of his solo albums, with some of his strongest, most appealing material and performances.
And while I am generally not a fan of Yoko Ono's music, I actually like several of her songs here. Not her voice--I simply do not enjoy it much at all, almost ever, regardless of what she's singing--but the songs. The tracks in some cases are pretty damn cool.
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Post by jk on Oct 11, 2021 16:00:30 GMT
I had a book shelf to wash and dust today so I gave the album a listen. I remember hearing "Watching The Wheels" the evening John died -- I quite like that one. I gave "Beautiful Boy" a miss (again) and decided "Woman" was still the absolute standout track. So like the previous Lennon album (whose name I've forgotten) I won't be listening to this one again.
I recall an album of remixes of Yoko stuff that I thought was great, but I can only assume that was from much later on...
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Post by kds on Oct 11, 2021 17:53:57 GMT
I dont think I've listened to DF in full since the day I bought it since I always skipped Yoko's songs. I'll have to do that this week. I know John's songs are top notch, and his portion of the album would probably get a nine. But, I'll have to see where the whole LP stands.
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Post by lonelysummer on Oct 12, 2021 7:03:47 GMT
I dont think I've listened to DF in full since the day I bought it since I always skipped Yoko's songs. I'll have to do that this week. I know John's songs are top notch, and his portion of the album would probably get a nine. But, I'll have to see where the whole LP stands. I would rate it the same way. The only thing that could make the John half better is a little more rock and roll grit on "I'm Losing You" (have you heard the Cheap Trick version?). I heard the "stripped" version of the album a few years ago, but I don't recall it being greatly different. I guess after this the only John album we will be rating is Milk and Honey. Damn! Taken from us far too early. I wonder what an 80 year old John would be like? Would he have settled into a career of constantly reminiscing about his past like Paul, and doing concerts of 75% Beatles era songs? Would he and Yoko still be together? Would he be politically active? Or maybe he'd go the way George did, increasingly isolated from the outside world, only coming out of his castle when a particular project moves him (in George's case, working with Ravi Shankar; in John's case, probably producing a Yoko album).
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Post by kds on Oct 12, 2021 12:53:09 GMT
I dont think I've listened to DF in full since the day I bought it since I always skipped Yoko's songs. I'll have to do that this week. I know John's songs are top notch, and his portion of the album would probably get a nine. But, I'll have to see where the whole LP stands. I would rate it the same way. The only thing that could make the John half better is a little more rock and roll grit on "I'm Losing You" (have you heard the Cheap Trick version?). I heard the "stripped" version of the album a few years ago, but I don't recall it being greatly different. I guess after this the only John album we will be rating is Milk and Honey. Damn! Taken from us far too early. I wonder what an 80 year old John would be like? Would he have settled into a career of constantly reminiscing about his past like Paul, and doing concerts of 75% Beatles era songs? Would he and Yoko still be together? Would he be politically active? Or maybe he'd go the way George did, increasingly isolated from the outside world, only coming out of his castle when a particular project moves him (in George's case, working with Ravi Shankar; in John's case, probably producing a Yoko album). I've heard Cheap Trick's version at some point, but honestly can't recall much about it. I can't see John becoming a prolific nostalgia touring artist, as he really didn't seem to enjoy playing live. I could see him doing one off stuff live Live Aid.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 12, 2021 13:04:58 GMT
What he--or any of the others--might have been doing had he not been killed is so hard to guess. I think there would have been at least one Beatles reunion of some sort, though it's impossible to guess whether it would have been a Live Aid kind of live one-off, a single (very lucrative) tour, an album, or what.
The longer he lived after that, the more I think everything would have happened, as it seems to with many people. Nostalgia cash grabs, artistic statements, political activity, sad collaborations, more breakups, more reunions. Same stuff as with every other band of that era. But when people die early, it is easy to pretend they would have remained idyllic heroes.
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Post by B.E. on Oct 12, 2021 13:31:29 GMT
I would rate it the same way. The only thing that could make the John half better is a little more rock and roll grit on "I'm Losing You" (have you heard the Cheap Trick version?). I've heard Cheap Trick's version at some point, but honestly can't recall much about it. I don’t think it’s much different. I actually prefer the album version.
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Post by Kapitan on Oct 12, 2021 13:41:27 GMT
I've heard Cheap Trick's version at some point, but honestly can't recall much about it. I don’t think it’s much different. I actually prefer the album version. It's similar, and from what I understand was used to help guide the musicians on the actual version. But it is a little heavier, a little dirtier sounding, frankly almost muddy. And less polished, not quite so produced (which might just be because it wasn't the final take they were going to polish up and use).
I prefer the album version.
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