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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 4, 2021 19:16:11 GMT
I despise rock critics. If I used them as my guides for adding to my record collection, I wouldn't own 95% of what I listen to and enjoy. I remember Paul Nelson as the guy who tore Bob Dylan's Shot of Love to shreds in Rolling Stone. I don't need these self important monsters to tell me what is good music. I love Venus and Mars. In fact, I love it just as much as Band on the Run. I don't care what you think; and I hope that you approve.
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Post by kds on Aug 4, 2021 19:18:42 GMT
I'm not sure which I dislike more. The "cool kids" dumping on Paul McCartney's post Beatles output. Or the fact that, the majority of the time, I wind up agreeing with them.
I don't think Venus and Mars is a bad album. I also don't think it's a particularly good one either. Rockshow is great. I like Listen to What the Man Said. I think Treat Her Gently is a pretty good ballad. But, I find the majority of the rest of the album to be rather unmarkable. Although You Gave Me the Answer is pretty memorable, but not really in a good way. It's another one of those old timey sounding Paul songs, and I tend to dislike those more than like them.
Boy, could this album have used a few songs like.....say....Junior's Farm. Even though the song predated the album by about six months, I think it would've pulled the album together a bit.
But, I'll go with a six. A bit of a let down after Band on the Run.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 4, 2021 19:18:59 GMT
I don't care what you think; and I hope that you approve.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 5, 2021 2:57:46 GMT
I have no problem rating this album a 10. It is one of my most played Wings albums. One of the main reasons for that is the great guitar work throughout by Jimmy McCulloch. Rock Show, Magneto and Titanium Man, Letting Go, Spirits of Ancient Egypt, Medicine Jar, Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People, Crossroads Theme. If feels much more like a group on this album than, say, Red Rose Speedway. By now, Paul, Linda and Denny have a very recognizable vocal blend - it's a big part of the Wings sound - whatever that may be. There's all kinds of songs on this album, but it leans a bit more to the rock side than later albums will. Rock Show, Magneto and Titanium Man, Letting Go, Spirits, Medicine Jar - that's a good half of the album. Some of these songs will get even better when the group plays them live around the world. Love in Song is a great Paul song - strong melody, and he sings it great. I know it's not hip to like it when Paul does those thirties type tracks, but I love them. I didn't grow up being brainwashed into thinking "if it's not hard rock, it's not any good". Around our house, we heard MOR pop, country and western music (yes, some real western music like Sons of the Pioneers), big bands of the 40's, 50's and 60's rock and roll; pretty much everything except classical. You Gave Me the Answer is a great old timey track (Honey Pie is another favorite). Denny Laine finally gets a lead vocal on a Wings album with Spirits of Ancient Egypt, and the only question I have is, what took so long? He was the lead singer in the original Moody Blues, and when he was with Ginger Baker's Airforce, he got the spotlight on Man of Constant Sorrow. Jimmy McCulloch's song Medicine Jar is a great rocker. Listen to What the Man Said? That's the kind of pop rock magic everyone expects Paul to deliver. Love the sax solo, the group harmonies, perfect summertime record. Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People benefits greatly from Jimmy's bluesy guitar fills; nothing is overplayed, just what the song needs. Paul sure had a beautiful voice back then. This album was strong enough that it became the core of their setlists on the Wings Over the World tour.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2021 15:42:58 GMT
B.E., being the big Beatles fan you are, you may know this (though anyone who does, I'd be glad to hear): do you know how the wealth/tax implications caused Wings to record this outside the UK? I know that the '70s were a time of English musicians living elsewhere for tax reasons, but I'm not sure why the location of recording would be relevant. After all, isn't recording an expense as opposed to an income?
On the album specifically: "Venus and Mars" is a great, great opener. I love it. I've got a soft spot for short, prelude-like introductory tracks on albums, especially if they're a bit softer, more tuneful, moving into "true," rockier album openers. I love "Our Prayer" and "Meant For You" for those purposes, for example. (Not that "Meant For You" goes into a rockier song, with "Friends." But you get the point.)
The guitar sound, then more guitars, then flutey synth. Beautiful vocal. Vocal harmonized by the synth. A little piano underneath. An octave-up vocal. Then the aux percussion, a little change in the chord sequence with some well-placed minor chords, a little electric guitar figure... It's really well constructed, and of course it bleeds right into that great "true opener" (in my opinion), "Rock Show."
Usually I don't like rock songs about rock. I think I've written about this before. But I don't know, silly/dopey or not, Paul is just so good. Great album opener(s). That first 7 or so minutes of the album would get a 10 from me. The album doesn't--almost couldn't--keep that up, naturally. But I love this much of it.
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Post by kds on Aug 5, 2021 16:53:21 GMT
I decided to give Venus and Mars another listen today. I'm still sticking with a six. It's a good sounding album. I was a little more drawn to Medicine Jar on this listen. I kinda liked when Paul would let Jimmy or Denny sing to break things up a bit. But, I still don't feel like it's a strong enough album to bump up.
I remember hearing V&M way back when, maybe in the late 90s, and I actually remember liking the album more. But, it was during that time period in the late 90s / early 00s, when I was trying to listen to and collect as much Beatles stuff as possible. Unfortunately, I was also trying to do the same with Floyd, and a few other bands, and Floyd took top priority, so my record store trips wouldn't always result with me snagging a George, John, Paul, or Ringo CD. Sort of like Kap, I got them when I could, along with buying the albums that were coming out in real time (ie. Vertical Man, Brianwashed, Driving Rain, etc).
But, I never acquired V&M. I can't even recall exactly where I heard it (likely either listening to my father's copy or at the house of my old friend, the Paul-ista).
I remember there was a time in the late 00s that I said, "one of these days, I'm going to complete my Beatles discography collection." I have to say that the last ten years, the convenience of Spotify, and this exercise have all but removed that urgency. Although, I'll probably at least complete John and George (since it wouldn't take that many to do so). .
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 5, 2021 17:29:49 GMT
[The track-by-track continues...though I did them offline rather than adding another billion posts.]
"Love in Song" is gorgeous. I don't think it's one of Paul's best ballads, but frankly Paul set a really high bar for "best ballads." I think it's got a really strong melody throughout, and the arrangement is really tasteful. It's pretty simple throughout, with just the right little touches here and there to accentuate certain moments, such as the vocal harmony that appears around two minutes, and then the background "oohs" shortly thereafter (and the string synth right after) before it becomes more stark and open again. I also like that, at 3 minutes or so, it doesn't overstay its welcome. This is the sort of thing that feels like on Red Rose Speedway or Wild Life might have been 5:30 or so. I have mixed feelings about "You Gave Me the Answer," as I tend to have with several of Paul's pre-rock style songs. The biggest reason? It's not the style of the song, it's the production, particularly on the voice, which makes a bit of a gimmick out of it. (His performance lends that same kind of effect via natural means.) It almost makes a joke out of the song(s), which--while I don't mind some humor in music--becomes less cute after it's repeated every other album or so. By this time he'd been doing it for almost 10 years, after all. The song itself is wonderful. I just wish he'd played it straight. Instead it reminds me of Queen's "Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon," another song I actually love, but feel was produced like a joke. I think Queen meant it as a joke. But they only did it a few times; Paul just seemed to go to that well too often. It would have been better straight. "Magneto and Titanium Man" is something I don't really know what to say. On one hand, it’s so damn dumb … but I really like it. It’s fun (which is something I keep thinking throughout the album), and the music is great. Mostly that simple blues feel, but with just enough changes to keep it interesting. “Letting Go” is the first song I could really do without. I would’ve at least edited and buried it a bit: I always associate the first and last spots of both sides with important statement songs. To me, those are prominent positions. It’s fine, it's just nothing. “Spirits of Ancient Egypt” fits in a similar territory for me. It’s OK, it’s just insubstantial for me. Nothing about it stands out in a good way, but it’s not unpleasant. At least it's only 3 minutes or so, and I like that Denny Laine got to sing it. “Medicine Jar” is like a slightly better version than those past two I mentioned. Not that it sounds like them, but in that it’s a generally blues-based shuffling rock song, and like “SOAE” it has a non-Paul lead (which is again welcome). Isn't it a bit ironic that McCulloch did the anti-drug song, considering it’s how he died a few years later? (Or had he been struggling all along, with the message maybe something he was telling himself? I honestly don’t know much about him at all.) I could skip “Call Me Back Again” entirely, but the single “Listen to What the Man Said” is very nice, even though I don't care for Tom Scott's sax. (Remember Scott from George Harrison’s Dark Horse? He was on that album and the musical director of that tour.) Really good little pop song. And I also really enjoy “Treat Her Gently - Lonely Old People,” even if it’s a little long for my taste. So, sure, I do think Side Two drags a bit, isn’t quite as interesting and dynamic as Side One. I’d have liked to see the pre-album single “Junior’s Farm” and “Sally G” both make the album, replacing “Letting Go” and “Call Me Back Again.” (I actually also enjoy the pre-album instrumental singles, though I don’t know that they’d have fit very well.) It’s not a perfect album, by any stretch of the imagination. But it’s a good album. I’m still not sure where I’ll rate it. I can’t go below a 7, yet an 8 feels pretty high. It’s probably in that 7.5 range where it could swing either way. I’m leaning toward 8 with the understanding that it’s rounded up … yeah, what the hell. 8, at least for now.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 6, 2021 0:31:36 GMT
Good comments from everybody so far. If I were to remove one song from the album it would be Call Me Back Again. I don't mind it when it comes on, but it's the most disposable track. I like the horns on it, though, and Jimmy's guitar, and Paul sings the hell out of it, even though it's about nothing. BTW, the lyrics of Medicine Jar were written by Jimmy's drummer friend Colin Allen for a friend that was struggling with drug abuse. Everybody thinks Jimmy wrote it about himself, but he didn't write the words. This info comes from Paul Salley, author of the brand new Jimmy McCulloch bio, Little Wing.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 6, 2021 0:44:34 GMT
BTW, the lyrics of Medicine Jar were written by Jimmy's drummer friend Colin Allen for a friend that was struggling with drug abuse. Everybody thinks Jimmy wrote it about himself, but he didn't write the words. This info comes from Paul Salley, author of the brand new Jimmy McCulloch bio, Little Wing. Thanks, I had no idea. I looked at the credits but frankly the second name meant nothing to me, it just passed me by.
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Post by lonelysummer on Aug 6, 2021 23:29:34 GMT
BTW, the lyrics of Medicine Jar were written by Jimmy's drummer friend Colin Allen for a friend that was struggling with drug abuse. Everybody thinks Jimmy wrote it about himself, but he didn't write the words. This info comes from Paul Salley, author of the brand new Jimmy McCulloch bio, Little Wing. Thanks, I had no idea. I looked at the credits but frankly the second name meant nothing to me, it just passed me by. Colin Allen was in a band with Jimmy called Stone the Crows. They wrote several other songs together; had a little sideline band going in 76/77 called White Line. They put out one single, Call My Name/Too Many Miles. They also wrote one song on the only album Jimmy's last band recorded, The Dukes. The album itself isn't very good, but Jimmy's song, Heartbreaker, is a scorcher!
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 7, 2021 3:00:30 GMT
Thanks for the comments. I looked up Jimmy on wiki while reading up on V&M, and so I had a bit of a picture on the broad outline, but I didn't know about him at all otherwise. And even reading wiki I had no idea about his other bands, though they were mentioned. (It was just like "then this, then that.") Based on those comments I think I'll see what I can listen to online. I'm a little curious.
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Post by Kapitan on Aug 8, 2021 15:30:31 GMT
B.E., I'm dying to hear your impressions of this one.
Well, not dying. But curious.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 8, 2021 15:57:06 GMT
I'll get to it...today! I listened to the album twice on Friday.
Edit: I also want to listen to the remix of ATMP sometime today if I can find the time.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 8, 2021 17:03:28 GMT
B.E. , being the big Beatles fan you are, you may know this (though anyone who does, I'd be glad to hear): do you know how the wealth/tax implications caused Wings to record this outside the UK? I know that the '70s were a time of English musicians living elsewhere for tax reasons, but I'm not sure why the location of recording would be relevant. After all, isn't recording an expense as opposed to an income? Perhaps Paul was flirting with becoming a tax exile during that period, but didn't go through with it? I don't know. If true, I'd like to learn more myself. ...the single “Listen to What the Man Said” is very nice, even though I don't care for Tom Scott's sax. (Remember Scott from George Harrison’s Dark Horse? He was on that album and the musical director of that tour.) That explains a lot! I feel bad for saying it, but Tom Scott's something of a musical nemesis of mine. He'll be marring my enjoyment of Thirty Three & 1/3 before long, too.
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Post by B.E. on Aug 8, 2021 17:32:11 GMT
I've always thought fairly highly of Venus and Mars - that it was one of my favorites, and one his best, of his solo career (just below Ram and Band on the Run). I still feel that way, more or less, but my high '8' has dipped to a low '8' and I think I finally feel comfortable placing Run Devil Run above it as my enjoyment of that album continues to standup to repeated listens. I'm a little amused that Kapitan is calling for "Call Me Back Again" and "Letting Go" to be replaced...those are my two favorite songs!!! Of the entire album, I continue to get the most joy out of Paul's vocal performance on "Call Me Back Again". I absolutely love it. And, as @robesimo described it, I think "Letting Go" is killer, too. The rest of my favorites have been singled out by others: "Rock Show", "Love In Song", and "Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People". "Magneto and Titanium Man" has been growing on me. Even when the lyrics get silly or someone other than Paul sings lead (which I find more distracting than welcomed), there's a lot to like musically. And, as others have already said, there's just a lot of "fun", of good-to-great performances. So, I really do like this album. I like "Listen To What The Man Said"; though, I don't love it. "Venus and Mars" is good, "Crossroads" is fine. "You Gave Me The Answer" is really wearing on me, though. By the way, when I say other lead vocalist can be distracting, it's just that Paul's voice, especially during this period, is so strong, and so beautiful when singing ballads, I mean, he's a legend, and so the other singers just sound so bland by comparison. There's just too much of a disparity. It comes off like Paul's doing them a favor by letting them sing a few lines here or a song there.
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