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Post by B.E. on Mar 9, 2020 15:32:33 GMT
So was I. We were talking about the same thing. In my previous post, though, when I said "Didn't Mike say in the wake of C50 that Brian could have gotten a license for himself if he wanted?", I wasn't clear that (IIRC) Mike was referring back to '98-99. Regardless, in that post, I was applying that mindsight to both '98-99 and post-C50. It doesn't seem like Mike had/has much interest in including Brian and Al in his version of the Beach Boys, does it? I honestly think Mike would've been interested in carrying on with Brian. I'm not at all convinced that Mike was the one who kept that reunion from going on longer. Fair enough, but based on Mike's actions and words (that I'm aware of) - I disagree.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 9, 2020 15:32:44 GMT
I was mostly responding to kds's point that if Brian and/or Melinda really wanted Brian to be a Beach Boy, somehow that would've happened. I really believe that, too, and pointed out two possible ways that it COULD'VE happened in conjunction with the infamous "break up" in 2012 - a corporate vote and a subsequent lawsuit forcing the issue.
But, I guess I was also continuing to address (or disagree with ) your point that Mike didn't want any part of dealing with Brian. Again, in beating the proverbial dead horse, I think Mike will always want to work with Brian in some capacity, but only on his terms. And, because of those terms (whatever they would've been) a new corporate vote probably would've been necessary, and if Mike was on losing end of that vote, a lawsuit was probably to follow. So, Brian and/or Melinda need to REALLY want it and Mike needs to get his way. I like our chances!
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Post by kds on Mar 9, 2020 15:42:01 GMT
I honestly think Mike would've been interested in carrying on with Brian. I'm not at all convinced that Mike was the one who kept that reunion from going on longer. Fair enough, but based on Mike's actions and words (that I'm aware of) - I disagree. That fair, but I'm pretty sure Mike has tried to reach out to Brian more so than the other way around (I think for a recent Christmas show).
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Post by B.E. on Mar 9, 2020 15:47:23 GMT
I imagine that after a relatively short time Brian accepted the break up and settled back into being a solo artist. I don't know. Whatever the case, it will be very interesting what details come to light down the road. What we know as fans, only represents the tip of the iceberg.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 9, 2020 16:03:26 GMT
I’ve long thought (and still think) it’s going to take the deaths of a few of the guys to get information, which sadly at that point means either it’s second hand or goes without rebuttal.
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Post by B.E. on Mar 9, 2020 16:33:22 GMT
Yeah, we'll have to treat that information accordingly. The more information the better, though. I still feel like we know relatively little about Carl.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 9, 2020 21:06:32 GMT
I was mostly responding to kds's point that if Brian and/or Melinda really wanted Brian to be a Beach Boy, somehow that would've happened. I really believe that, too, and pointed out two possible ways that it COULD'VE happened in conjunction with the infamous "break up" in 2012 - a corporate vote and a subsequent lawsuit forcing the issue.
But, I guess I was also continuing to address (or disagree with ) your point that Mike didn't want any part of dealing with Brian. Again, in beating the proverbial dead horse, I think Mike will always want to work with Brian in some capacity, but only on his terms. And, because of those terms (whatever they would've been) a new corporate vote probably would've been necessary, and if Mike was on losing end of that vote, a lawsuit was probably to follow. So, Brian and/or Melinda need to REALLY want it and Mike needs to get his way. I like our chances! Yes, a compromise if you will. It's like I've been saying the last few pages, and again it goes back to not having an effective manager or facilitator. Let's say for example - and I actually believe this to be true - that Brian wanted to continue touring with that C50 lineup indefinitely, on a limited number of dates basis, and he also wanted to record a followup Beach Boys' album to TWGMTR...his way. On the other hand, Mike preferred, not demanded but preferred, to go back to playing 150+ dates a year with a more streamlined band, which obviously Brian would never be able to handle. And, if there would be another Beach Boys' album, Mike would demand to write X amount of songs with Brian.
So, there's the problem(s). It's laid out right there. Now, if you're Brian, what are you gonna do about it? He chose to do nothing except complain about it in the media, and go back to his previous solo career. And what did Mike do about it? He went back to MAYBE his preferable situation with the Mike & Bruce Beach Boys, definitely his preferred 150+ dates per year, but he ultimately lost out on the chance to record another Beach Boys' album, with Brian Wilson, because he couldn't/wouldn't get a (written?) promise to record it HIS way. And what did the fans get? Absolutely nothing. No more Beach Boys. Nada. Finished. The splintering of the group again.
Now, specifically addressing a potential lawsuit. If Brian wanted to "stay" a Beach Boy for the foreseeable future, his best bet would've been to address the large potential financial gains with the C50 lineup continuing on. On Smiley Smile, that pompous Howie Edelstein or whatever his name is, used to write about all of these offers that were on the table; stadiums, large arenas, record deals, TV appearances - all lost because the "reunion" didn't continue. Brian could've first, called a vote to continue the reunion TO MAXIMIZE PROFITS for BRI. How can that be disputed? Well, what if Brian and Al would've voted to continue C50, and Mike and Carl's estate voted against it. Brian could've, literally, made a case out of it, claiming that Mike and Carl's estate were keeping BRI from potentially greater earnings, maximizing profits, and having acted in good faith by calling a vote and losing, he (Brian and Al) needed to go the legal route.
First, if there would've been a vote to change things around to suit Brian's needs, I'm not sure it wouldn't have passed. Obviously the wild card would've been Carl's estate. But, one thing I'm pretty sure of. If Mike would've lost control of the license, I think he would've filed a suit for breach of contract. Again, I think it all would've come down to dollars and cents, with Brian (and Al) proving that a band with them in it would've made more money. That would've truly shown that Brian really wanted to be a Beach Boy again - going forward at least a couple of years. Then again, with Brian, he could change his mind on a whim. That would be one of Mike's defenses.
If you're still with me, just one more quick point (here's that dead horse again). I wonder if an effective manager could've intervened and helped to facilitate a solution or an agreement that made all of the parties happy, or at least content enough to continue as the real Beach Boys for another tour and another album.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 9, 2020 21:13:58 GMT
I imagine that after a relatively short time Brian accepted the break up and settled back into being a solo artist. I don't know. Whatever the case, it will be very interesting what details come to light down the road. What we know as fans, only represents the tip of the iceberg. I do think Brian had some legitimate interest in recording a follow up to TWGMTR. TWGMTR was commercially successful and somewhat well-received critically. Brian pretty much "ducked" Mike with TWGMTR; maybe he thought he could do that again. And, as we found out with No Pier Pressure, Brian still had a few (old) tricks up his sleeve.
I'm not so sure about the touring. Like I've been saying, I think the only way Brian would've been able to stay in The Beach Boys' band would've been if they cut the touring schedule substantially. I wouldn't be surprised if Brian was physically and emotionally spent after C50. No more shows for Wilson.
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Post by kds on Mar 10, 2020 12:14:35 GMT
While I agree competent management would be ideal, I'm not sure if even the best manager in the business could help out a band that has turned poor decision making into an artform over the past half century for a final triumphant ride into the sunset.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 10, 2020 17:37:20 GMT
There's a chance, albeit a slim one, that some of these issues could come again in the next year or two as The Beach Boys celebrate their 60th Anniversary. I don't know if the guys will be interested, but I'm sure there will be offers for an album and a tour of some kind.
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Post by kds on Mar 10, 2020 18:03:49 GMT
There's a chance, albeit a slim one, that some of these issues could come again in the next year or two as The Beach Boys celebrate their 60th Anniversary. I don't know if the guys will be interested, but I'm sure there will be offers for an album and a tour of some kind. Just hope that if a reunion does happen, they get the wardrobe coordinated this time around.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Mar 10, 2020 18:11:46 GMT
There's a chance, albeit a slim one, that some of these issues could come again in the next year or two as The Beach Boys celebrate their 60th Anniversary. I don't know if the guys will be interested, but I'm sure there will be offers for an album and a tour of some kind. Just hope that if a reunion does happen, they get the wardrobe coordinated this time around.
From what I remember, I think the wives or specifically Mike's wife had a lot to do with the wardrobe. Forget Brian and Mike, I wonder if Melinda and Jacqueline are on speaking terms.
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Post by kds on Mar 10, 2020 19:36:40 GMT
Just hope that if a reunion does happen, they get the wardrobe coordinated this time around.
From what I remember, I think the wives or specifically Mike's wife had a lot to do with the wardrobe. Forget Brian and Mike, I wonder if Melinda and Jacqueline are on speaking terms. I have a feeling Melinda and Jacqueline's relationship is far more combustible than Brian and Mike's.
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Post by Kapitan on Mar 10, 2020 19:37:08 GMT
Correct, Mike’s wife apparently handled wardrobe (which was better than Hawaiian shirts, shorts, open robes, and turbans!).
Sadly I think a “C60” would fail to warrant its prices: too much degradation in the guys. I suspect it would be more like a modern Brian show: most of the good-sounding parts will be sung as well as played by people without spotlights on them.
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Post by kds on Mar 10, 2020 19:47:47 GMT
Correct, Mike’s wife apparently handled wardrobe (which was better than Hawaiian shirts, shorts, open robes, and turbans!). Sadly I think a “C60” would fail to warrant its prices: too much degradation in the guys. I suspect it would be more like a modern Brian show: most of the good-sounding parts will be sung as well as played by people without spotlights on them. I was poking fun at the shitstorm that was caused by Mike, Bruce, and David wearing Mike Love blue & white striped shirts at the XM Summit in 2018. Yeah, the guys would be another ten years older, but I think another full scale reunion ten years removed from the last would still put butts in the seats. Would it be as good? Well, no.
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