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Post by kds on Aug 26, 2019 12:22:20 GMT
I don’t know about the vocals, then. They’ve definitely got presence, especially Gene. DEFINITELY know what you mean about moving on from bands. That might be a thread of its own. That would make a very interesting thread. I think I already have three or four bands in mind.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 27, 2019 12:55:32 GMT
Who knew? I didn't for many years...
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Aug 31, 2019 12:59:52 GMT
Hard to believe this was 43 years ago. Maybe my favorite KISS song. Live. Ace!!!!
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 1, 2019 21:26:40 GMT
KISS Destroyer, 1976
“I’m the king .. I’m the king … I’m the king … I’m the king … “
KISS Destroyer is an album from a confident band, a band that is the king. What’s funny is a confidence from a group with precisely one hit album, and that a live compilation. But whatever … Destroyer was the from-on-high statement of a band of cartoon characters scientifically crafted to appeal to 13-16 year-old boys across America. Success!
Bob Ezrin, who had worked with Alice Cooper and Lou Reed in the preceding years, brought a similarly dramatic approach to the production for this previously bare-bones band. Children crying and singing, radio DJs, strings … more than the typical KISS affair to be sure.
As for hits, it’s a surprisingly thin album—especially considering it is often considered the greatest KISS album of all time. “Detroit Rock City” is the classic; “Shout It Out Loud” is the obvious anthem; and “Beth” is the ballad. “God of Thunder” has its cache as a live stalwart. But hits? In America, “Beth” hit #7. “Shout It Out Loud” hit 31.
Hits aside, though, this is so, so obviously a different band. (In some cases, probably literally. As Bob Kulick says he told a passed-out Ace, “best solo you ever played.” The quality throughout is just much higher, whether due to Ezrin cracking the whip, using outside musicians, or something else. But every song is a strong one, a cut above the three previous studio albums.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 2, 2019 0:08:53 GMT
Hits aside, though, this is so, so obviously a different band.
Yes, obviously it was a different band.
Back in the days of early KISS, I had a friend who shared the same taste in music as me. We both found various summer jobs and earned peanuts, but neither of us worked during school because it was sports, sports, and more sports. We both had to budget and be very selective with our music purchases, and even strategized as to what we would buy next. It used to be "If you buy The New York Dolls' new one then I'll grab Montrose's new one." And, "Ray Manzarek and Robby Krieger have new solo albums out so you'll have to pick up Led Zeppelin's new release." And on and on. As I mentioned above, my interest in KISS after Alive started to fade. Luckily my buddy was still heavily into them so he picked up Destroyer. I'm glad he did.
Before I get to the praise...I remember listening to Destroyer for the first time, because there were actually some wince-inducing moments. It was, "Oh no, now Ezrin brought his kids over to KISS!" And, "Shout It Out Loud" doesn't really rock does it? And the biggest one of all was with "Beth" - fu*kin' strings!? There were times we looked at each other and rolled our eyes or grimaced. What happened to OUR KISS? Did they sell out? Did they forget where they came from?
Over the years I mellowed. I won't go as far as saying I/we were wrong. Hey, we were young, stubborn, purist diehards. But KISS was trying to grow, expand their horizons a little bit, and NOT fall back into the same old KISS. Was Bob Ezrin the right producer? I'll leave that up to bigger KISS freaks than me. I will admit, though, that I came to like "Shout It Out Loud" and even "Beth". Now, the little kids' voices...
There's some first rate KISS songs on Destroyer, the obvious being the classic "Detroit Rock City". I like "God Of Thunder", and I especially like "Do You Love Me", one of Paul Stanley's best vocals on the album and a great tag. Honestly, I'll have to give the album another listen because my memory of some of the other songs is a little shaky. Kapitan, you said above "But every song is a strong one, a cut above the three previous studio albums." I never viewed Destroyer that way and I take some exception to your quote. But like I said, I've have to give the album another spin, er, click.
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Post by kds on Sept 3, 2019 14:56:52 GMT
Destroyer is probably my favorite KISS album. Pretty much a perfect rock record. I do think Ezrin was a great choice. The guy's right up there with Martin Birch as best hard rock producers in history.
Ezrin's still at it, and has turned the knobs on some solid recent later era albums from Alice Cooper (Welcome 2 My Nightmare) and Deep Purple (Now What / Infinite).
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 3, 2019 16:55:53 GMT
Perfect rock record, that's strong stuff right there. I don't know I'd go that far. I think the production aspects are a bit much for a perfect rock record. But even without the kids, strings, and hellscapes, it sounds so much better than what came before. Their first professional sounding album, frankly. And I don't mind the production aspects, either: they are fitting for a band with this image.
But I'll give my hot take (that I probably have said before, so it has cooled off into a lukewarm take): Detroit Rock City isn't the best song on the album, and isn't even among KISS's best 20 songs.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 3, 2019 17:19:57 GMT
But I'll give my hot take (that I probably have said before, so it has cooled off into a lukewarm take): Detroit Rock City isn't the best song on the album, and isn't even among KISS's best 20 songs.
Aw, don't do that to me. I wanna know now!
I'll throw this out...I would've opened Destroyer with "Shout It Out Loud" and started Side 2 with "Detroit Rock City".
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 3, 2019 17:26:55 GMT
I'd have been fine with opening the album with "Shout It Out Loud," too. Or "Flaming Youth," for that matter (which is absolutely one of my favorites from the album).
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Post by kds on Sept 3, 2019 17:43:38 GMT
Maybe perfect was a little strong, but pretty darn close if not so.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 3, 2019 17:44:49 GMT
Speaking of "Flaming Youth", I was just reading that Bob Ezrin brought over Alice Cooper and Lou Reed's guitarist, Dick Wagner, to play the guitar solo on the song. Dick also played on "Sweet Pain" and acoustic guitar on "Great Expectations" and "Beth".
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Post by kds on Sept 3, 2019 17:55:13 GMT
I don't think Ezrin was particularly a fan of Ace, or maybe Ace's antics. Ezrin pretty much instructed Ace note for note how to play the solo for Detroit Rock City.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 3, 2019 17:59:22 GMT
I think Ace by this period onward was more than a handful for anyone trying to conduct business. His playing was never much beyond solid bar-band style rock and roll. He's good, sure, but nowhere near the guitar god his biggest fans seem to believe. (And I LOVE Ace Frehley.) And that's why Dick Wagner, Bob Kulick, and over the years a handful of others had to do his parts, just like various others had to do Peter Criss's.
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Post by kds on Sept 3, 2019 18:07:32 GMT
I suspect a lot of fans tend to overrate Ace and Peter's abilities due to the sometimes d!ckish ways they've been treated by Gene and Paul over the years.
We've seen that fan mentality plenty in the BB universe.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 3, 2019 18:13:06 GMT
Absolutely. Plus, there is the logical fallacy of thinking that because they were in your favorite era of a band, that they were therefore the best talents. That's just silly! They were good enough to play the kind of basic rock and roll that made KISS great. That's not the same thing as being great players, especially once the chemical dependency issues got out of control.
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