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Post by carllove on Sept 16, 2021 1:16:14 GMT
For the first time in 17 years, Rolling Stone Magazine has completely remade their list of the best songs ever. “God Only Knows” is number 11. “Good Vibrations” is 53. Other than that though - the list is just plain weird. So many songs I have never heard. If it’s a top 500 song, I feel like I should at least have heard it and have an opinion.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Sept 16, 2021 2:48:31 GMT
Wouldn't It Be Nice was 297. I think Sloop John B was in the original in the top 250 somewhere, but now it's completely gone. Funny how that works. With the sheer number of songs in the world, it's obviously highly subjective, even more so than the albums list. If they asked another group of people, I'm sure the list would look even different still. I know all of us would have more Beach Boys songs. One glaring omission right off the bat for me is California Girls.
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Post by kds on Sept 16, 2021 12:41:06 GMT
I know it's all subjective, but I simply cannot take any lists from Rolling Stone seriously.
As soon as I heard that Smells Like Teen Spirit placed at #5, I knew I'd be disagreeing a lot.
But, Hey Ya by Outkast, as the tenth best song of all time?
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 16, 2021 13:06:54 GMT
It's all in the gatekeepers/decision-makers. From the intro of the list:
Pick different voters, get different results. Personally I wouldn't be all that curious what Sam Smith or Megan Thee Stallion consider great, and I don't even know who Angelique Kidjo or Zedd are, so I can't even say whether I care what they think.
But as the above says, more than half of the Top 500 songs of all time weren't on the previous Top 500 list. Think about it: did that many great new songs come to our attention? No, they just asked different people's opinions. Rolling Stone decided on the list they wanted--which is one to combat their old, "rock guy" image by being "expansive, inclusive"--and got the people to say so. I mean, I don't know about you, but personally I only care what Ke$ha thinks...
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Post by kds on Sept 16, 2021 13:09:06 GMT
It's all in the gatekeepers/decision-makers. From the intro of the list:
Pick different voters, get different results. Personally I wouldn't be all that curious what Sam Smith or Megan Thee Stallion consider great, and I don't even know who Angelique Kidjo or Zedd are, so I can't even say whether I care what they think.
But as the above says, more than half of the Top 500 songs of all time weren't on the previous Top 500 list. Think about it: did that many great new songs come to our attention? No, they just asked different people's opinions. Rolling Stone decided on the list they wanted--which is one to combat their old, "rock guy" image by being "expansive, inclusive"--and got the people to say so. I mean, I don't know about you, but personally I only care what Ke$ha thinks...
I believe Zedd is one of those laptop musicians. That being said, without ever hearing him speak, I would value his opinion tenfold over Megan Thee Stallion.
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Post by Sheriff John Stone on Sept 16, 2021 21:16:53 GMT
I know it's all subjective, but I simply cannot take any lists from Rolling Stone seriously. As soon as I heard that Smells Like Teen Spirit placed at #5, I knew I'd be disagreeing a lot. But, Hey Ya by Outkast, as the tenth best song of all time? While I'm far, far, far from an expert on the 1990's music, I think "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the best song of the 1990's.
Is "God Only Knows" becoming overrated? It's amazing what Paul McCartney's pronouncement, a few covers versions, and a few movie soundtracks can do for a song.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 16, 2021 21:25:58 GMT
I personally wouldn't rate "Teen Spirit" among the top 500 songs of the '90s, myself (much less of all time), but I'm well aware that's purely a personal thing. I don't agree that it's Top 10, but I get it.
Conversely, I don't mind seeing "Hey Ya" highly rated. Again, I wouldn't put it that high. But it was a massive worldwide hit--#1 in many places--and it's a really good song in my opinion.
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Post by B.E. on Sept 16, 2021 23:41:46 GMT
As soon as I heard that Smells Like Teen Spirit placed at #5, I knew I'd be disagreeing a lot. While I'm far, far, far from an expert on the 1990's music, I think "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the best song of the 1990's. SJS, if you watch this video, as I recently did, you might be reminded of a few songs that compete with it, but, on the whole, I think your opinion will only be reinforced. The early '90s were really rough, then "Smells Like Teen Spirit" comes on and BLOWS EVERYTHING ELSE AWAY. Unfortunately, we only get about a 6 second clip of greatness (in that video) then back to the regularly scheduled programming (although, it was a pretty diverse decade). ( Damn, there were a lot of novelty/dance tracks in the 90s. Reminds me of the early 60s and stuff like "The Twist", but not in the least bit endearing...)
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 17, 2021 2:23:49 GMT
While I'm far, far, far from an expert on the 1990's music, I think "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the best song of the 1990's. SJS, if you watch this video, as I recently did, you might be reminded of a few songs that compete with it, but, on the whole, I think your opinion will only be reinforced. The early '90s were really rough, then "Smells Like Teen Spirit" comes on and BLOWS EVERYTHING ELSE AWAY. Unfortunately, we only get about a 6 second clip of greatness (in that video) then back to the regularly scheduled programming (although, it was a pretty diverse decade). ( Damn, there were a lot of novelty/dance tracks in the 90s. Reminds me of the early 60s and stuff like "The Twist", but not in the least bit endearing...) I think the reason SLTS stands out is because it's virtually the only rock song on the list. I was surprised to see Scorpions Winds of Change rank that high, but of course it's a slow rock song. More Than Words is a rare acoustic song from Extreme. I would like to compare that with a list from the 80s or 70s. It seems that the songs that occupy the top spot are very rarely hard rock songs. In the 90's, it was mostly r&b and dance pop, mixed with big ballads from movies. Actually, it's nearly always been that way. Go back to the beginnings of rock and roll. Blue Suede Shoes was a #1 record, but Johnny B. Goode wasn't. Tutti Frutti wasn't. Summertime Blues wasn't. You wanna talk 60's? You Really Got Me wasn't a number one record. I Can See For Miles wasn't a #1 record. I find it amazing that Like a Rolling Stone was able to make it to #2 in Billboard.
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Post by lonelysummer on Sept 17, 2021 2:24:48 GMT
And BTW, Rolling Stone magazine is shit. Not The Shit. There's a big difference.
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Post by kds on Sept 17, 2021 12:15:56 GMT
I know it's all subjective, but I simply cannot take any lists from Rolling Stone seriously. As soon as I heard that Smells Like Teen Spirit placed at #5, I knew I'd be disagreeing a lot. But, Hey Ya by Outkast, as the tenth best song of all time? While I'm far, far, far from an expert on the 1990's music, I think "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the best song of the 1990's.
Is "God Only Knows" becoming overrated? It's amazing what Paul McCartney's pronouncement, a few covers versions, and a few movie soundtracks can do for a song. For three decades now, the appeal of Smells Like Teen Spirit, and Nirvana in general, has escaped me. I can't think of a band or song that I've consider more overrated. I realize I seem to be in the minority, but everytime I see that song or that band in the Top 10 of anything, it induces a giant eye roll from me.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 17, 2021 13:24:02 GMT
When it comes to lists like this, I have a couple questions for you all.
A few bands/artists are generally acknowledged to be on a higher level than the majority of even well regarded, big acts. Those acts that really packed the charts with hit after hit, classic album after classic album. The Beatles, Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, Elton John, Prince, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson--the exact specifics of who's in and who's not vary, but I think people can generally agree on many of them.
Do you think outlets like Rolling Stone should artificially suppress those classic acts' dominance in the name of variety on lists like this? I mean, I think a person could easily argue the Beatles should take up 5-10% of the songs among the top 500. You could have similar space taken by some of the other greats. Does it dampen the fun somewhat if you have 450 of 500 songs by just a handful of the very best artists?
If you do, where do you draw the line? How many Beach Boys songs really belong on the list, and would you really include them all?
(I've thought about this because my annual playlists I've been doing for the past decade, I've wrestled with that idea. Sometimes if I'm honest, one album might have half a dozen songs that warrant inclusion. But I've instead decided it's one song per artist, or at least per album.)
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Post by kds on Sept 17, 2021 14:39:06 GMT
When it comes to lists like this, I have a couple questions for you all.
A few bands/artists are generally acknowledged to be on a higher level than the majority of even well regarded, big acts. Those acts that really packed the charts with hit after hit, classic album after classic album. The Beatles, Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, Elton John, Prince, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson--the exact specifics of who's in and who's not vary, but I think people can generally agree on many of them.
Do you think outlets like Rolling Stone should artificially suppress those classic acts' dominance in the name of variety on lists like this? I mean, I think a person could easily argue the Beatles should take up 5-10% of the songs among the top 500. You could have similar space taken by some of the other greats. Does it dampen the fun somewhat if you have 450 of 500 songs by just a handful of the very best artists?
If you do, where do you draw the line? How many Beach Boys songs really belong on the list, and would you really include them all?
(I've thought about this because my annual playlists I've been doing for the past decade, I've wrestled with that idea. Sometimes if I'm honest, one album might have half a dozen songs that warrant inclusion. But I've instead decided it's one song per artist, or at least per album.)
From a business standpoint, it makes sense to limit the legends on these lists. Plus, RS needs to pull a younger demo to stay afloat, so including artists like Lorde, Fall Out Boy, and Megan Thee Stallion, and the like makes sense. When I make lists, I do tend to skew a little for the sake of variety, so I'm fine with it.
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Post by Kapitan on Sept 17, 2021 14:43:28 GMT
I'm trying to think about what Beach Boys songs belong on the list without actually trying to rank the best 500 songs myself.
Off the top of my head, I would say Good Vibrations, California Girls, God Only Knows, and Wouldn't It Be Nice belong on it without a doubt.
Then I think we need a ballad, but how do you choose between, say, Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl, and In My Room? Does it make sense to say "you need a Beach Boys ballad" when you're ranking the best songs, not representative archetypes of the best songs?
And how do you treat things like Surf's Up or This Whole World, clear masterpieces that frankly had a negligible impact on the pop and rock worlds at large?
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Post by kds on Sept 17, 2021 14:57:31 GMT
I'm trying to think about what Beach Boys songs belong on the list without actually trying to rank the best 500 songs myself.
Off the top of my head, I would say Good Vibrations, California Girls, God Only Knows, and Wouldn't It Be Nice belong on it without a doubt.
Then I think we need a ballad, but how do you choose between, say, Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl, and In My Room? Does it make sense to say "you need a Beach Boys ballad" when you're ranking the best songs, not representative archetypes of the best songs?
And how do you treat things like Surf's Up or This Whole World, clear masterpieces that frankly had a negligible impact on the pop and rock worlds at large?
I think Don't Worry Baby and Surf's Up, regardless of the latter's commercial impact, should each be worthy of inclusion in a Top 500 list.
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